The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I read one of the last responses from this morning's post and I felt AGAIN as though I had done something wrong. I refer to him as a loser becasue I am so ripped to shreds from the last 13 years of life with him. His abusive vulgar name calling and pushing of my teen daughter, his verbally abusive namecalling of my deceased 1st hsuband, his verbally abusive name calling of me, my 4 yr old grandson.. and on and on and on. For 13 yrs, I ahve succumbed to all of it and kept my mouth shut except for tears and boy ahve I shed them. I don't drnik normally so to ahve this much that night was a stupid attempt at some physical affection. I let the words saying our son hates you go without thinking under the influence.. I get it !1 But this man should be ashamed of how much damage he is and has done to our son and should think about why he does hate him !
I ahve gone to al anon.. read the books, have a sponsor, but sometimes denial kicks in and I want more for me.. So, yes, he is a human.. but with problems jsut doing the best he can.. jsut like all of us.. sorry I don't buy it. Yes, AGO, I I sure it did hurt him.. but ya know what ??!! What about all of that kids hurts, and my hurts... Sorry, but no other woman on this earth would put up with as much as I ahve, and now I am to feel guilty for saying some hurtful words... ??
-- Edited by canadianguy on Monday 17th of May 2010 01:46:54 PM
(((((angelbreeze127)))))) I have not really been here enough to offer anything more than a hug. I feel your hurt and pain and I hope it gets better for you. You are not alone. We have all gone through painful and hurtful things by our A's and can relate. I hope that by at least sharing, it makes you feel a little better.
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain..
Their is no need to get yourself worked up yet AGAIN because of your A and his issues...
There is hope that YOU can get better where his action will no longer effect your day YOU get to decide how your day plays out not him!!!
Take a deep breath no need in redirecting your anger... My 12 year old son hates my A as well but why give the A one more reason/excuse to put another load on?!?!?
Anger gets the best of us we've all been there but it's up to us to do something about it NOT THEM!
-- Edited by canadianguy on Monday 17th of May 2010 01:42:04 PM
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Courage is not a roar. Sometimes Courage is the small voice at the end of the day that says "I'll try again tomorrow"
Sorry, but no other woman on this earth would put up with as much as I ahve, and now I am to feel guilty for saying some hurtful words...
trust me when I tell you, I'll bet we have all thought, said or felt that same exact statement. I know I have. I'm with a man with several kids from several women all who wish to make his life miserable it seems. and an recovering alcohol in a sporadic program (until just recently) to boot. More than once I called him loser. More than once I thought no one will want you but me so how dare you treat me this way. More than once I ranted and raved against people because I was so angry, hurt, confused and frustrated.
You feel guilty because you are a good and loving person. and I'll bet one that does not like to hurt people on purpose. But we are all human and can only take so much. So you lashed out. Try not to take what is said here personally, please try to view it for what it is...experience, support and hope. we can only write about what we have gone through. I learned early on to take what worked for me and leave the rest. You been through so much, so be gentle with you. Keep talking it out here, you'll feel better. Feel free to PM me if you want, I'm a great sounding board. (((hugs))) to you angel.
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"Change is the essence of life. Be willing to surrender what you are for what you could become."
The Board, unlike a Meeting invites comments on other people shares. I hear that you feel upset regarding the comments to your last post.
Please try to "Take What you Need and Leave the Rest"
It is extremely difficult living with the disease alcoholism and being able to share our pain without judgement is very important!!! We have all said and done very painful things in the midst of dealing with this disease.
Alanon is giving us constructive tools to deal with the pain and until we learn to use them we will falter. Sharing the journey, our mistakes and victories is what this program is all about. I am sorry that you felt judged.
Your feelings are your feelings. My response to you was not out of a place of judgement. I am in no place to judge. My response was to share what I have learned on this journey of my recovery. Nothing more.
In our program we take what we like and leave the rest. If my response did nothing for you then ignore it. It wasn't a personal attack on you. Heck I am sure if we all wanted to we could all chime in with the things we did and try and one up each other on who did something worse, but that would divert us from our primary spiritual aim.
I was not trying to take away anything that you have been through or what living with the active disease has caused you to endure. My whole point was that if I CHOOSE how I view my "A". I have been there I have called him worse than a looser. Not my proudest moments.
If something someone says is a reply really bothers you I would encourage you to send them a PM and leave it off the board. Just a suggestion. Take what you like in that as well.
Yours in recovery, Mandy
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"We are not punished for our unforgiveness, we are punished by it" Jim Stovall
Well what I had to learn was when I suscribed to "an eye for an eye" while living with a practicing alcoholic pretty soon all of us were blind, me especially, and the sad thing was I was the one suffering for it, but since I was suffering all I could do was lash out and hurt others, hurt people hurt people, which cause the situation to escalate, causing me more pain which caused me to lash out more....you see where this is going....
For me the resentment, anger and ultimately the hate did nothing but make me sick, it was like drinking poison and hoping the other person would suffer, but it was only me suffering, and truthfully all I did was worsen the situation.
I've been where you are, and all of my friends were saying "put down the magnifying glass and pick up the mirror" and I was SCREAMING but you don't understand, look at what they are DOING to me!!!"
It finally got through to me when a friend told a story about a woman who used to drive with her husband when he was drunk, and he crashed the car and she got injured pretty good, now what a normal person would do is not get into the car any more while he was drinking, but what she did was continue to ride around with him while he was drunk, and he kept getting in car crashes, she kept getting hurt, until all they did was drive around while she was screaming at him how to drive and trying to get him to stop driving drunk...and the longer she rode around with him, the angrier she got and the more times she got hurt, until it finally occured to her she was in charge of her own destiny, and she stepped out of the car and walked away.
I understood that, they might have stolen the car, but I am the one who left the keys in the ignition, and not only that, I was the one who kept riding around with people who hurt me over and over and over wondering why they didn't change their behavior and stop hurting me no matter how much I screamed, yelled, begged, threatened and cajoled.
I finally realized it was up to me to step out of the car, that no one would do it for me, certainly not them. I had to learn if someone hurts me repeatedly after 3 times it's no longer on them, it's on me, I have the information, I am the one staying around and allowing myself to be hurt, the only one who bears responsibility any more is me, and not responsibility as in "whose fault is it?" or "who is to blame?" responsibility as in it is my own responsibility get out of this situation and to stop placing myself in a position to get hurt, at that point "blame" or fault" are as much use as a fish with a bicycle, I am standing in a burning building burning to death arguing about who started the fire, when the truth is it's incumbant on me to save my fanny, all else is extraneous bs.
My friends explained if I walk into the Ghetto at night wearing a Rolex I was going to get mugged, it's just what happens when you go to the ghetto at night wearing a Rolex, so I could continue to go to the ghetto and continue getting mugged and get madder and madder about it, or I could stop going to the ghetto.
I could start taking responsibility for my own choices.
The choice was mine
I got out of the car 2 years ago and walked away, I've gotten into progressively healthier cars ever since
By the way, I did this in 48 hours from decision to gone, I ran away with no money, no job, no place to live, I had to rely on no one but my friends in the program, they let me stay on their couches, they helped me find jobs, I had to leave all my stuff under a friends porch, that was 2 years ago and I had to rebuild my entire life from the ground up.
I am 45.
So I get it, I understand what you are going through, all I could do is tell you what I had to do for me in order to regain my sanity.
One of the things I had to do was take the word "blame" out of my speech and thought process, both in my actions and theirs, and instead of wondering who is to "blame" to start wondering "what is the solution to this", if it were my actions, how do I clean up the mess and stop doing it, and if it was their actions, how I do start protecting myself, because I learned standing in front of somebody saying the same thing 300 times isn't setting a boundary, it's me going insane, this took me YEARS to figure out, because it seemed to work with healthy people, so now I look and rather then asking myself who's fault it is, I ask myself "what is the solution to this dilemma" and "How can I stop hurting?"
I am sorry you are hurting, I truly do understand, I have been in your shoes before, but my experience is my experience, and I didn't start getting better until I started drawing healthy boundaries and taking responsibility for my own choices and therefore stopped getting hurt by others, and when I stopped getting hurt I stopped being hurtful and took my own destiny back and life is a lot different now.
Now I am frequently afflicted with emotions I didn't know existed for a long time, strange and confusing emotions like happiness, contentment, peace and serenity, and they occur more and more often as time goes by, sometimes I stay up all night just because I am so happy and don't want to let the emotion go
That is my experience
-- Edited by AGO on Monday 17th of May 2010 07:17:23 PM
The disease of alcholism is cunning baffling and powerful. There is nothing wrong with being angry at the disease, which seems to make people who "could" do so much better choose self destructive paths. For many people there is a element of choice in it. At some point an alcoholic crosses the line between choosing and having to. That line is different for everyone and of course the action is often accompanied by much denial.
Trying to make sense of alcoholism the abuse that sometimes goes with it and the chaos, destruction and uproar is very difficult. At the same time for many of us, especially me, the healing began with anger. I had had enough! I had a right to certain things like food, shelter and no more upheaval.
I'm glad I was angry. At the same time that all consuming anger was and is very very painful. Nevertheless for me admitting and being aware of the anger was indeed a clear step to saying I could not do what I had always done before.
I know your share wasn't "for me" but I want to thank you for it! Just what I needed to hear today.
Hope
-- Edited by hopeforme on Monday 17th of May 2010 07:40:05 PM
Thank you Hopeforme
Welcome, and keep coming back, there is a great group of people here, I have been a secret lurker for years, I very rarely post, so I am very pleased I was able to help you, now there is hopeforbothofus and maybe a smile too
His abusive vulgar name calling and pushing of my teen daughter, his verbally abusive namecalling of my deceased 1st hsuband, his verbally abusive name calling of me, my 4 yr old grandson.. and on and on and on.
I guess the bigger question is to ask yourself how much abuse you are willing to endure and why? There is no right or wrong, but the answer is important to your recovery.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Sounds like you are working on your recovery program. The longer we work the program we progress in our maturity with in the Al Anon truths.
In truth, it is not your husband doing anything to anyone. He is an addict with a horrible disease. He would NEVER choose to behave like he does, hurt you like he does and not have good relationships with who he usually would have.
My experience with detaching saved me. I was so torn loving him so much yet he was so awful.When I learned it was the disease that was hurting me I could love him but hate the disease.
As far as your being th only woman on earth who has put up with this much....NO one has the corner on that! lol I sure know you feel like it!Would do no good to tell you my story or anyone elses. We all have our pain from this, no ones is greater than anothers.
The fact is you are very, very hurt by a horrible disease. Your drinking is often a natural reaction to try to deal with a problem. It was an option you chose. Did not work, now you know.
Guilt? To me it is a wasted emotion. I rarely feel it, but when I do, yep it hurts.
But I turn around,grow from it and do better.
Yes that pent up frustration is horrible. When we learn to take care of ourselves, it doesn't happen or doesn't feel the same. For me I came to the point that all I could hope for was to love him, and know he loved me.
He did not contribute, He made messes, he goofed up. But it was HIS disease not mine. When it would start to pull me in I would have him leave. Got whereI could not be around him at all.
Yep I ended up paying for all, was my house, did everything. But if he got cancer in his brain I would have gladly done it! My A or now almost Ex A is so horribly sick.
For me hon, it has been 40 years. I loved him all my life. I have faced his disease all my life. Was rarely smooth. Al Anon now for about 10 years, helped me grow up and into a pretty self sufficient, forgiving, non critical, person.
I learned how to do boundarys and consequences for anyone ignoring them.
It is VERY normal to feel as you do! Think about all the pain you carry! As far as being mad at responses, I am willing to bet if you cont.your path here at Al Anon you will completely relate to those responses.
I learned drinking or using was a symtem. I was so, no way, it is not. dipstick! Well it is like selfishness, tunnel vision. progression of disease, etc. Scuze my spelling please.
Keep coming back. Please know we are all in different stages of our recovery in Al Anon.
I am very glad you were able to share you were mad. That is great!
We are here for you. debilyn sending hugs.Ok put the barbs back in! (o:
Angel if it has reached the level of abuse...mental, emotional, sexual, financial, physical, verbal or any mixture of that it is against the law. People get jailed for that and such things as family support services is available for you to help it stop and bring you and your family to safety. I heartily encourage you do do just that. That encouragement comes from a past Alternatives To Violence case manager. (((hugs)))
I just want to add that Alanon exists for us, the wives, husbands and families of addicts.
We are here to learn about ourself and yes of course about the addiction and what it has done to our lives.
I might have many that will disagree with me, but Im going to voice my opinion. This program is also about reaching a solution. We forget sometimes that we have to make boundaries and live in the solution. Everyone has to make their own decision and thats do I live with this horrible disease or not. Some of us are tied to the alcoholic for financial reasons. We have to devise plans for our life. We have to also realize that the addict may never reach sobriety and act accordingly and make those decisions that are best for our lives.
Nobody should suffer endlessly at the hands of an addict. Maybe some women are so dazed and confused from this disease they cannot even think that they will escape the madness. Yes there are those whose husbands do reach sobriety, small few. I just dont want members to think that Alanons purpose is to prolong their suffering and live a life of austerity.
The goal is to become happy and serene, by whatever means. Sorry, but this is how I feel. I wish you strength and wisdom. Bettina
I am sorry you were upset about some of the responses to your posts.
I can tell you from my experiences here, when I have felt the same way there's usually a good reason for it. I have walked away very mad from this board. Many people can tell you that. But after a little time I have gone back and reread the responses, I realized how loving and supportive they were being. They weren't sugar coating their ESH they were being honest with me. So why did it get to me so badly?
It's because I needed to hear those things, even if I didn't want to. Just because we don't sugar coat things, doesn't mean we aren't supporting you. This program like AA has no hope of succeeding (at least for me) if I can't be totally honest with myself. Sometimes it takes a good swift kick from people like Mandy, Christy or anyone else. I may be upset with them at first, but I know they will always have my back. Just like we will have yours.
Take what you like and leave the rest. The beauty of our recovery program is that when we make mistakes, we can start it all over again. I have slipped so many times that it's a good thing I have lots of padding back there.
Nothing changes if nothing changes. Now you have 2 options here:
1) Continue to be upset with us and do nothing about your situation
Or:
2) Realize the responses came from a place of support and compassion. Take those responses and learn from them. Take the opportunity to grow from it.
The choice is yours. Whichever you choose we will always be here for you.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
Thank you AGO.... I got alot about the car story.. it makes sense. Sometimes I wish I didn't own this house.. if I could jsut pcick up and run awy... but me owning the house, and having to extricate him isn't easy.. so far... I get alot of threats and so far have not taken the lawyer police route... it feels closer.. but anyway.. thank you... I get it and I appreciate your reply.
Thank you AGO.... I got alot about the car story.. it makes sense. Sometimes I wish I didn't own this house.. if I could jsut pcick up and run awy... but me owning the house, and having to extricate him isn't easy.. so far... I get alot of threats and so far have not taken the lawyer police route... it feels closer.. but anyway.. thank you... I get it and I appreciate your reply.
(((((((((((((angelbreeze127))))))))))))
Thank You
I am sorry your feelings were hurt, and am pleased the car story helped you, I know it did me, that was the story where I finally "got it" and realized I was sick and tired of being sick and tired and so was able to begin to shift my focus to myself, I had spent years trying to get these other people (My family and girlfriend) to change their behavior, that was when the light bulb came on and I realized I had to change my own.
Alcoholism is a family disease and it takes everyone around it down, in a form it is a mental illness that is in fact contagious, and the sad thing is, everything that your A has done to you was probably done to him, it is learned behavior, and that's what it looks like if left untreated, then we turn around and become abusive ourselves to our abuser and it becomes our new normal, and it gets passed down from generation to generation, with the children either growing up abusive or learning to find abusers, because it is what they know, and frequently becoming alcoholics and abusers themselves.
I had to draw a line in the sand and say the buck stops here, this stops with me, I don't care what it takes or how hard this is, this will. not. continue.
I was talking to an ex girlfriend the other day who I haven't seen in 10-15 years, and I was telling her what happened with my family in those last few years and all of the sudden she said in this quiet voice
"You aren't like them"
what? huh? what did you say? wha wha what does this have to do with .....
She said "Andrew, you aren't like them, you got into recovery 20 years ago, you aren't like them, you were never like them, you ran away from home at 16 and were in recovery 10 years later"
I just started crying, it seemed off topic, but it wasn't, I had been building up a good head of steam telling about what happened, had started to get upset by reliving the story, and there was a voice of love
"you aren't like them"
I'm not, but I started to be when exposed to them too much for too long, we sink or rise to the level of those around us
I am not like them
any more
I can't convey to you how powerful that is to me, it brings tears to my eyes just writing it
You are a person worthy of love, and worthy of the best but you have to take it for yourself
When I drew the line in the sand and made my stand in recovery I stopped having to do it alone, they carried me when I couldn't carry myself, but I had to pinch my nose, scrunch up my eyes and jump off the cliff and ask for help half way down
That's when I made contact with my higher power, and I am an agnostic atheist, who just happens to have a conscious contact with a power greater then myself
I learned I don't have to do this alone, and that my higher power talks to me through the mouths of others, at meetings and in my mind as the result of working the steps
it works if you work it so work it because you are worth it
hello im her also if u need to fuind me please kleave a message the only ones that truly understand what pain wveev been thru are the ones that expercuineced it i have sufffer from my a too and alos have sufffer loosing 4kids from my first ex and sec ex i have know right to them tell they come find me hurt is hurt abuse is abuse and we all sufffer hurt and more emotion mentall physical and all but in our own ways and lifes but i know ive siffered from my first and sec and know my a h is emtionaslly and menatall as well but we all sudffer differntly i guess love u all and angel eys take care and heres a hug for u if ull take it email me anytime u need too
