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How do you know when it's time to leave your alcoholic loved one and begin a new life? When is enough enough? I've read that only you can know and it's different for every person, but it's something I've been thinking about for the last few weeks. I'm so burned out over my fiance's alcoholism, especially the lying. I think I could be ok with his relapses and steps backwards as I know that's bound to happen, but it's the fact that he's never been honest with me EVER about his drinking that kills me and poisons our relationship. Two weeks ago I told him his dishonesty made it nearly impossible for me trust him, and I questioned how we could have a relationship without trust. I was emotional and frustrated and of course he was right there to lament and tell me he was going to be better, blah, blah blah... the next night he went to his AA meeting (Yes, he's one of those who goes but still drinks... but at least he goes I guess) and came home to me and said, "We talked about honesty in our meeting tonight and on being honest with yourself and others. It was really good." He went on to say, "I know I've fallen off the wagon, but I want you to know that I didn't have anything to drink today. It was so hard and I didn't know if I could do it, but I thought you should know." The words, they sounded so good. They sounded so good except for the fact that he was speaking close enough to me that I could smell his breath. His boozy breath. It broke my heart and at that moment I thought, "This is so crazy. I can't live with this. This is insane."
So I've been thinking of setting up a date in the future (after our busy season with work) to leave if I don't feel like things are improving. It's scary to even think about, and when I do I feel like I get this incredible anxiety attack and I can't breathe. I also feel this tremendous sense of guilt, like I'm leaving a terminally ill loved one or something. This is my sickness. I know he's the only one who can help himself, but with all these mixed emotions and the love I still feel so deeply for this person, I don't know how I'll have the strength to walk away. And I don't know what I'm waiting for, for when the time will be right or when it's clear that I need to walk away. I feel like a lot of people only walk away when they've reached the breaking point of their own sanity, like they're doing it out of self-survival. I don't want to reach that point, being close to there is hard enough.
Any experiences you may have had with this would be helpful. Just looking for more experiences outside my own Alanon group.
I left when I realized that it wasn't going to get any better. The relapses were very stressful, and a lot of clues made me realize that there was often drinking going on even when he wasn't on a full-blown passing-out relapse. And he wasn't nearly as eager as I was for the drinking to stop. It got so I was spending my days full of anxiety, dreading another relapse. He was dismissive, as if his drinking had no impact on anyone but him, and as if it had never really been bad in the first place. Even though he was going to AA and had been through rehab. I realized our points of view were miles apart on this. And I realized that it's hard enough to stop drinking if you desperately want to stop, but if you don't want to stop all that much, the chances are overwhelming that it's not going to happen. Plus a friend of mine in AA revealed that the longterm sobriety rate is something like 25%. Those aren't great odds.
And I was right, it didn't happen. Even the end of his marriage, not being able to see his child much -- even those things didn't interfere with his devotion to alcohol.
The lies were just the same as you describe. I once pleaded with him that I wouldn't mind the drinking if he were just honest about it. He was unable to be honest. I think that came from an inability to be honest with himself. He couldn't admit to himself that he was doing it, that it was out of control, that he had difficult feelings, etc. I think to this day he still earnestly believes that he has never drunk inappropriately. The disease goes all out to protect itself. It's part of the insanity. I don't think it can be separated from the insanity.
In retrospect, I would have gone through less agony if I had left earlier. I was full of fears about making it on my own, feeling as if I'd failed, anxiety that I would regret leaving, and so forth. In truth I have never regretted it for one day. I regret that the marriage didn't work, but I couldn't make it work; it takes two to make it work. But I guess the value of staying so long (though I wish I hadn't) is that I am absolutely sure that I stayed long enough. And I stayed long enough to get a real experience of the pain and agony, and the memory of those helps me stay real about the situation. Also, since we are still in contact because of our son, whenever I want to remember the truth of it, I just look at how his life is going, and it's still right there in all its alcoholic horror.
I had been with my "A" husband for almost 12 years last summer. We have three beautiful children and I was struggling. I was the only bread winner in the household and his disease was getting more and more progressive and I was becoming afraid of him. He had already gotten violent with me a few times and my fear was that he would move onto the kids next.
Last summer I trhough myself into this program like never before. I was ready. I found a counselor because I know me and I knew then that I didn't have the strength to follow through with it. I started talking to my sponor and a few close friends about wanting my "A" to leave.
I was so torn because I still loved him and if I asked him to leave he would have no place to go, no job and no money. I didn't want him to end up on the streets and I couldn't see then that if that is what happend that was his choice.
I was able to see that the man I fell in love with wasn't even there anymore. He was someone I didn't recognize and didn't like. He became someone I was afraid of. I didn't want my kids growing up thinking this was normal that this is how it was supposed to be. I didn't want to deal with the guilt if he would have hit one of them or of one of them would have found a needle he had used.
I knew it was right because it wasn't a choice I was makingout of anger. It wasn't a rash decision. I thought long and hard about it. I realized I wanted out more than I wanted to fix it. I realized that I couldn't fix "us" I could only fix me. I realized that even though I loved him, but I was not in love with him. I realized that I wanted more out of my marriage.
I prayed. I prayed a lot to my HP. I put a lot of time into making this choice.
One day he asked me what I wanted. I told him I wanted him to stop using/drinking and I asked him to please stop. I know that wasn't going to fix everything, the drinking nad drugging was just a symptom of the disease. But it was a place to start. He told me no. He told me he had nothing worth quitting for. I know that was the disease talking, but at that point any desire to try to fight for us was killed.
I am not promoting seperation or divorce. I only know that it was what I needed. I know it worked for me. I didn't go through the divorce in hopes that he would get clean and sober. My focus was on me and my children. It hurt, but it felt right.
I hope you find your answer. Only you know what is right for you.
Yours in recovery, Mandy
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"We are not punished for our unforgiveness, we are punished by it" Jim Stovall
I realized without even knowing that this was a progressive diease since each time it happen the worse the abuse got... I was mentally and physically sick my A was bring me right down with him even though I didn't drink..
I couldn't do that to my children it was getting to the point where the sober A was even worse to deal with then the drunk A.
It was after the fact that I came into the program and I can't express how thankful I am to have found this site!
I hope everything works out for you!!!
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Courage is not a roar. Sometimes Courage is the small voice at the end of the day that says "I'll try again tomorrow"
i think it is different for everyone. Personaly I was frustrated, angry and resentful day one. Instead of looking at my options (none of which I liked) I tended to over commit with him. I poured energy into the garden, the house, the possibility he could get a life. I was so over reactive I did not know what to do with my feelings.
Many of us make a plan be before we consider the act of leaving. I know that helped me. My plan be was rudimentary but when I started making one the choices I had were clearer and calmer.
it was one of the longest and heartstruggling decisions I have ever made in my life
It took me YEARS to make it
You see ~ my now exAH did have recovery for a while - here's the readers' digest short version: married 10 1/2 yrs - active disease (drinking & drugging him; me co-dependent, etc.) Feb 03 - he enters rehab - gets sober, Sept 03 - I start al-anon - we live sep for 15 months - working on ourselves, our recovery and our marriage. Move back together - Life is GOOD! Sept 2005- Our area is devasted by Hurricane Rita Jan 2006 - He relapses - has surgery; continues to relapse off and on; I work my program, work with my sponsor - THIS IS NOT THE LIFE I WANT.
hours, weeks, months of work on me - journal, stepwork, prayers -
March 2008 - I tell my God - I'm ready to go - as soon as you say it's ok! my answer - God says not yet.
1st week of November 08 ~planning my granddaughter's bday party at my house - I find pills on the floor, i pray "God my grandchildren should have to be exposed to this" and my answer was as loud as if God was speaking to me face to face "And neither do you"
I rented a place and spent the 1st nite in my rental Thanksgiving nite 2008.
and have never regretted it - because I did it according to the God of my understanding's timing ~ when I walked away - I was completely thru, finished, done.
After 16 and half years - my time was over. I lost a lot, my ex AH fought back UGLY, cost me financially more than I ever would have imagined but that's an entire different post.
My new and PINKFUL life is today and I'm grateful.
Wishing you the strength, courage and wisdom to know what is your best path, HUGS, (hope, unity, gratitude & serenity) Rita
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
I think implementing boundaries is crucial and that is when things began to change for me. When I focused on me, determined what my true needs were, practised putting the love of me -first - over the other person or the relationship. Set and followed through on boundaries that would protect me. It gave me -emotional detachment - so that I could be my own (emotional) person and not -attached in their feelings. So I began to change the dynamic of my relationships bc I was chanign my behavior by protecting myself and removing me from the emotional ties/abuse in the relationship.
You can only own your side of the relationship - if ur codie, u tend to take it all on and blame yourself, feeling guilty, etc. acting overly responsible. He wants u to feel guilty, that feeds the emotional drama -- he basically is terminally ill, he has the disease of alcoholism and u will need to learn to stop enalbing and recognize the disease and learn to get out of the way. You cannot change him or control another adult but you can change and control YOU.
Accept what is and that he is going to lie. He is in denial and lying to himself. Focus on you and set boundaries and learn to seperate from the disease and get you back. Even if u leave the A, it is likey the things inside that attracted you and got you in the relationship in the first place, will still be there and you will most likely get involved with another addict of some sort. Being with emotionally unavailable people is usually the result of our behavior. If we are codependent, we will attract dysfunction. Boundaries give us health. Practise focusing on you, not him or the drama. Get honest about yourself to YOU and bloom where u are planted. Take ur time and work the program. Always reacting - compulsively - I did that too - I was focused on them or the drama and fed into that. As I focus on me and get honest about my needs - it is easier to get them met and I am a happier person, all around. I can only feel-deal-heal what is going on for me.
You can make a plan "B" - have a safety net, something to save for and consider. Ultimatums and demands dont work. Learn to take care of YOU in the relationship. As u do that, it will become clearer and there will be no question about it. Take your time and be gentle with you. Look at your patterns and why you are where you are? When we take an honest look at ourselves, we can then change things.
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
I started thinking about leaving a couple of months after I started this program. Or I guess I should say having HIM leave. Even though I was starting to feel a little calmer and was even able to sleep at night again, the drinking was getting worse and I knew I didn't want to live the rest of my life with that situation, alanon or not. I figured I would make no decision for the next six months but would start making my Plan B, in case I ended up alone. I'm happy to say that shortly after I came to this conclusion in my mind, AH finally hit his bottom and decided he wanted to get sober. It's only been a few months, but he's working hard at staying sober and I'm working hard on my own program. I still have my Plan B in the back of my mind, but I hope and pray I won't need it.
After 15 years of on and off relapsing on his part and constant codependencs on my part there were more ways of knowing than I could even remember to write here. On the third round of my belongings ending up in pawn shops, and never hearing an honest word for over a year it was not a matter of knowing it was leave or give up and sit and watch my world not only his crumble. Not one person in his family would speak to me because I had caused it all, I dreamed of him dying, when I was almost home after work I would start to cry. I regret putting myself thru that as long as I did. I do not regret giving "it" my best, I do regret not knowing my best was never going to help him to be happy and not "need" to drink pain away. And I do regret giving all my best away and not putting that energy into the best me.
-- Edited by Jennifer on Monday 17th of May 2010 09:59:50 PM
I stopped when I reached the point of suicide. I was done...toast, mind, body, spirit and emotions all at the same time. There was a gapping hole where my soul use to be and total darkness and a loud loud sucking noise. I probably had about a couple weeks at most left before it would all go away. I was afraid of dying crazy and it was that fear that got me into and keeps me coming back to Al-Anon. I followed the suggestions of the program before divorcing and used the program during it. I focused on my own recovery...broke off contact with my alcoholic except for one very crazy dramatic relapse...and then quiet like Jennifer, with my Higher Power in control and my sponsor holding the light, I undid what it was that I should not have done in the first place. I amended a mistake. The amount of program and learning and practice and follow thru was all worth it. When we parted she was sober and I know that she loved me and that I loved her (for the first time) and we had no reason to be married. God Bless and Keep her where ever she is at and give her every gift and blessing that God would give the children God loves unconditionally. I still love her and exactly as I love everyone else including all the family members of MIP and the program. (((((hugs)))))
Probably a frustrating response, but really, you'll know when you know. It'll just be crystal clear one day when enough is enough.
I pretty much gave that question over to my HP, because I, too, was just wondering when I was finally going to reach my threshold of emotional pain. It finally came a few months ago, and since then I've pretty much been mentally stepping out and at some time my physical will come along, too.
For some that time never comes - this isn't a program which encourages divorce or separation or split-ups. Then again, neither does it encourage people to stay in a clearly unhappy relationship.
Remember, many many people have found a way to remain happy and enjoy life to the fullest and still stay with their qualifier(s). That may be your case - who knows? Just give it over to God and keep giving it over until one day you'll be sure of either staying or leaving.
Oh, you'll know. You'll reach that point of when the pain of staying is greater than the pain of changing. That's how it was for me. I struggled with it for a long time - years of codependent behavior until I finally got tired of it.
Then I found Al-Anon. I acquired new tools and coping skills and tided myself over for another 7 years until I really buckled down and got down to some serious work on me about a year and a half ago.
This led to a stronger program and greater awareness of my reality and gradual acceptance that he has his own path and I could no longer subject myself or my kids to the drama surrounding his journey. It was simply too much. For a the better part of 25 years, I accepted responsibility for way more than I truly was responsible for. Letting go of what was not mine felt very foreign to me at first, (what is this light, peaceful feeling?) but I'm getting used to it
As others have said - keep the focus on you, bloom where you are planted and make a plan B. You're so worth it!
Thanks everyone for taking time to share some of your insights. I found something valuable in each post I read. After reading and reflecting, I feel more at ease with letting the HP do the deciding for me. I have to trust that my heart and mind will know when (or if) it is time to leave. I especially found helpful Mandy123's story and how you got to a point where you wanted out more than you wanted to fix things. Something about that really resonated inside of me. The scales still tip in favor of trying to work on things and stay together, but I don't know how long that will last.
After mourning over the loss of what I thought our future was going to be and cancelling our wedding a few months ago, I know that for me I can't stay in a situation like this and thrive as a person. I'm 26 years old and don't think it's fair to me to commit to a life-time of this rollercoaster insanity, especially when there are no kids or a marriage vow. As others have said, I have to be good to myself. Sometimes I get angry with myself for not leaving today, tomorrow, or even yesterday. I think, "What's wrong with me? Why can't I just let it go?" but then I remember "Progress, not perfection." Each week I get a little bit stronger and a little more realistic concerning the realities of this disease. So for now I will continue with my Plan B and continue with detaching. I've planned several weekend trips over the summer and just figuring out the logistics of leaving has helped me to realize that I have choices.
Will continue to use the board to give updates on progress. If anyone else has any stories of survival or insights I would still love to read them.
