It took me along time to understand that I had a right to say NO .. for all the reasons u just stated ..  I asked my husb whn reasonably sober that if he could not come to our bed  smelling of soap and toothpaste to please not touch me , luckily for me , my husb was a gentleman he apologized and did try to do as I asked but he didnt try to force the issue .
I can only relate to sexual abuse by what I allowed .. anyone who has slept with a wet drunk understands abuse ..
Oh  and there is not much that cannot be discussed on this board . Intamcy is not discussed often enough  and it is a major problem in our circumstances ..
Getting drunk will only add to your confusion , u deserve to treat yourself better.  * hugs*

Thanks for the PM on this AGO. It was very helpful.

abbyal is right on the money. "No" is a complete sentance. I enjoy having an active healthy sex life w/my A bf of the last 15 yrs of whom we share a teen daughter. I really had to look at my motives on this... many times i used sex/intimacy as a weapon or bargaining chip by withholding it or doling it out as 'rewards', a sick twisted game of manipulation on my part which was hit/miss at best. Yet when i really took an honest look at my part (the things i CAN change) I too chose to talk to him at a reasonably soberish time about my total turn offs... like reeking feet, BO, nasty breath, dirty hands, greasy grimy clothing etc etc you know the drill... I also dont care to sleep w/a sloppy wet drunk... but when ya live w/active alcoholism thats what ya tend to get, due to the schedules we keep (i work evenings, i'm a nite owl... he keeps day hrs and is usually sloppy or passed out by the time i get home) So i dont do the 'nighttime rondevous' usually... i'm more of a 'chop the morning wood' kinda girl ;) Perhaps you can find a happy medium/some kind of balance for yourself too. Alanon puts out a great book on this very topic by the way... its title is "The Dilemma of the Alcoholic Marriage". Well worth the read.

Alanon teaches me to focus on myself. If I am uncomfortable with anything in my life I am learning to say NO and develop my own self esteem.
I had to learn that marriage does not make me my husbands property to do with as he pleases.
Drunk or sober, if I chose not to give away that part of me that is so intimate then my husband has to deal with it. Its his issue then not mine.
Abuse is abuse, mentally, physically or emotionally.

Obviously I have to be careful not to use intimacy as a weapon and be honest about my reasons. It would be very wrong to use sex as a form of control or manipulation, but protection of who I am as a person is good for me and very appropriate I think
Mon

I'd say the test of unreasonableness is how you feel about it, not whether he feels it's unreasonable.  It's your boundary.

Drunk sex was an easy one for me, because an intoxicated man is thoroughly repulsive to me.  There was no question of refusing intimacy to manipulate because I had NO desire to be physically close to a drunk.  Both of my XABFs were in recovery so when they relapsed they went from sober to blotto pretty quickly, and beyond the point where sex was even possible (although they did try!).

I set out that boundary firmly and unmistakeably right away after the first relapse: I will not have sex with you when you're drunk.  Some little kernel of memory of that would remain when they relapsed, because all they needed was one reminder and they would stop trying.

I am not married to an A but have had A bf's in the past and seriously felt repulsed at the idea of sex with them while they were drunk so although I wan't in alanon at the time I set that boundary.
Being inimate ( if you can call it that ) with someone who is there only in body ( not mind or spirit) seemed like a small part of me died each time.
So I think if that is a boundry you are going to set good for you. I don't see it as manipulation at all

I also have a "no sex/no touching" policy with my AH while he is drunk. In fact, I am in the middle of renos on the spare room so I can move in there on nights he is drinking as I also cannot stand the smell of booze/smoke and the snoring that comes with it.

My issue is that I also do not feel like sex with him even when he is 'sober', as he is still a demanding/selfish person days after his drunk. I tried to explain it to him when he was sober, and stated that I just do not feel 'connected' to him lately, and as such do not feel like having sex. For me, the urge is an emotional one, and when I am not emotionally connected, I don't feel the urge. I have tried 'doing it for him' a couple of times, but it didn't feel right to me.. almost had that 'floating outside my body' feeling like I was protecting myself from being emotionally hurt...

Perhaps I need to work some more on detaching with love instead of just detaching with indifference, as I think this may be what is driving some of the 'distance' between us.. then again.. AH's demanding/selfish comments/actions could also be why that distance is there.

For now.. I focus on doing what makes me happy, and if AH can't 'make himself happy' so to speak (wink wink) and needs to go outside the marriage to satisfy himself, that's his choice. I will deal with that if that day comes.

I've found that whenever you set a boundary with an A, they have a "push back" response.  Their focus is on themselves and what they want, and when they're drunk even more so -- they're not looking at the bigger picture.  And if you set a boundary they don't like, especially if it is about alcohol and its consequences (such as "I don't feel intimate when you've been drinking"), they have a really big vested interest in making it no so, in trying to pretend that nothing's wrong and that you should behave just as if they were not drunk and as if they were not AWOL in the relationship.  They want to erase your reality and enforce their reality instead.  But you get to own your reality, which is that you do mind.  I recently read something about the importance of developing honesty in our lives, which pointed out that pretending that something's okay with us when it isn't okay is dishonest.  Sometimes we're raised to be good and "go along," but that's dishonest.  We can draw a boundary without being mean.  (Though the A's often try to say that any boundary is mean -- that is so not true.)  And saying calmly that we're not okay with it when we're not okay with it is a good honest boundary.  You could even say that not drawing it is enabling -- letting the A think there are no consequences, when the consequence is that you're not attracted to a drunk.

It is my experience that if a  husband or wife do not feel up to it, then they don't. Does not have to be their A is drunk. Could be a number of reasons.

Possibly going into detail to a person when they are drunk is pointless anyway.

If one feels they need to explain, surely do it when they are sober.

I guess a, "hon I don't fee like it" should be enough. How they respond is up to them.

One may need to be reassured of your love for them, which would be natural. But more than that for me does not matter.

you are a very caring, sensitive person. Great share.
love,debilyn

It says in the 'family disease' section at the top of the page here, Some typical problems include:Guilt: family members begin to believe the alcoholic's accusations and take the blame.

I think this game playing that AH's do to get their own way is so toxic.
I feared he would go else where for sex....then eventually I hoped he would and I would have a reason other than his drinking to end the marriage.

I hated how he pointed out all my flaws and his accusations. I never once thought to consider just not reacting. I knew it was all lies. He stole my self esteem and I let him because I believed him.

I tried so hard to be the dutiful wife because thats what loving wives do......make love to their husbands when ever they demand it....isn't it????
As well as cooking meals keeping the house clean, dealing with kids, driving my husband to work and back because hed lost his license again, working all hours I could around all that plus of course paying the bills, running around trying to catch my husband out lying, drinking, cheating.

I was SOOOOO relieved when someone in Alanon talked about how insane all these things were. I was under the mental health professionals crying to them I just wanted it all to stop.....
Maybe they did tell me to stop reacting there I don't know. I couldn't hear anyone telling me anything. I could just stop it all just by not playing the game. But
I justified every bad behaviour with a ...yes but.... and projected all my fears. My consequences affected other people and I couldn't let that happen.

Of course my AH got cross and sulked when I stopped playing his game. He got quite angry about it. He LIKED playing his game. It kept him drunk. He took no responsibility because the game told him it was all ok. I TOLD him by my actions it was all ok...

He was so shocked when he said ....as usual....that I didn't understand him
and I replied ....you're right I don't and I don't have to. Its not my job.

Steps one and two were just amazing to me
I have no control over anything my AH does or says, or my adult kids for that matter
But I can change anything I am not comfortable with.... regardless of his reactions or the misguided teachings of my parents or church.
When my life is unmanageable it is because I have lost my focus on my own needs.

I can refuse to walk on eggshells or engage in any behaviour I don't feel is good for my own wellbeing.
Alanon and my Higher Power teach me constantly to consider honestly what my intentions are.
Because my AH or my kids also have the same freedom to consider their own wellbeing regardless of me. Letting go of them is a loving thing to do and allows them the dygnity of living their own lives

we all learn from our consequenses, but we can only live today

I have one life to live and my Higher Power is in charge of it, not my husband.
He has his own Higher Power and I'm not it...

(((((Family)))))...this is a major thread;  sooooo supportive of thinking and choice
and changing perceptions to fit positive change.   I am grateful.   While I was
reading a question recrossed my mind.  It had before this.  "What part or how
much of Love, (My definition "the complete and total acceptance of all others
for exactly who they are".) is sex anyway?  I love open but don't desire sex
from any on those I love except my wife and at times she has problems
with not being on a pedestal.  I love because I am able and because it feels
good going out and coming back and if it doesn't come back it still feels good
going out.  

I know this is a wandering off from Love's original post but I like the question.

(((((heads up)))))

I do have to add this, I forgot, we must not forget how to laugh, I know our circumstances are serious, but looking back at this scenario, I do have to laugh.

The x Ah, was always telling me for years that he could not function sexually. The time he was having the affair with the other women , was on again, but he told me he was going to AA meetings, he would come late and drunk, I told him I dont know of any AA meetings where they serve drinks.. But anyway one nite, we stopped at the store, he went in and I searched his truck, (I know, but I couldnt help myself, and it was beyond the point of no return) well in a secret compartment, I pull out this plastic bag and it is full with hundreds of little blue pills, VIAGRA!! When he walked out of the store, I threw the pills all over the parking lot. No wonder he had a heart attack before. There were enough pills to choke a horse. LOL

I continue to read and get a bit morose as I inventory all of the sexually intimate
relationships I have had and this is far from a brag because what I was looking
for was love but what always seemed to be most important was the sex, the
release, the climax and the end.   Sex has an end and what I was looking for
had none or I wanted it to have none.  Know what I'm trying to say?  I resent
the feeling of "just being used for" as much as I have had the feeling of having
"used" someone else.  There is no love in it; just the attempt to fulfill a need.
That is how it's been in my journey in this disease; the difference between "I
love you" and "I need you".   Lots of sex...very little love; Bummer!

Some people just don't care about the love aspect.  I try to stay away from
those today.  I learned about love in the program of the Al-Anon Family Groups
and it was painful higher education.  Thanks  ((((hugs))))