"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

Love Always Hopes · Member

Questions on what I'm learning here

bluebee · Member

Hi,

I'm fairly new as well and I was pretty confused about the detachment part. A lot of wonderful people here have been at it a lot longer than I have (and have a better way of explaining it), but this is my experience with learning about detachment.

I was confused - the concept seemed difficult and cold-hearted. But through meetings and talking to people here, detachment (at least to me) is to not let my emotions be ruled by the actions of my A. It is about setting emotional boundaries and enforcing those boundaries so that you keep your sanity. And you do this with love. Not necessarily detaching yourself physically, but emotionally - and not in a cold way, but in a manner that keeps you at peace.

I'm sure there are other concepts that I have not learned yet, but this felt like the most important one to start off with for me. My anxiety, my worries, my sadness - it all traced back to my A's actions. And since I can't control his actions, I had to figure out a way to cut that tie (A's action = how I felt). I couldn't go an hour without feeling a weight on my chest, my heart beating a million miles an hour, frustrated. I couldn't live like that anymore.

I have a lot of work ahead of me, but Livestrong's page on detachment is something I read everyday. And it's been helping. The hours between contact with him are not as painful anymore - and when he does contact me, I am not as emotionally overwhelmed as I used to be. I'm not perfect and I still have my moments of doubt, but it IS GETTING BETTER. You simply COME FIRST.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

welcome!

My experience is this. The Bible says we are to love our neighbors as ourselves. You just pointed out how we are to think of others. But if we do not not love the person our creator allows us to be, how can we love anyone else?

It is important we retain our love for self and our own interests for one thing, the loved addicts disease will try to suck us dry and destroy us.

As far as detachment, for me it was simple, I loved my AH, hated the disease. Even when he was using and awful I loved him and felt compassion for the guy locked inside.

Of course it took time to get there! I chose to stay with him so learned to be ok with him no matter what. So I was able to be around him lots longer than I would have had I detached from him.

I hope this makes sense. Glad you are here. It will amaze you all ya learn here, and we also learn from you! hugs,debilyn

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome to MIP....
My opinions on your two questions

1. The two don't negate each other at all.... loving yourself, and self-care, are an important part of any well-rounded, healthy person.... Connecting with your HP and having spirituality is equally important.....

2. Detaching is really "from the disease", but if he's drunk & miserable 90% of the time, it hardly seems like an exciting life to hang around the whole time, for that odd & infrequent 10% of the time when he is not.. As an example, "detachment" from his disease may look something like..... the two of you make plans to go for a movie on Saturday night..... Saturday rolls around, and he decides to get drunk, and is unable to go - a good example of "detaching" would be if you went to er the movie as planned... either with a friend, or by yourself, or whatever...

Hope that helps
Tom

kitty · ~*Service Worker*~

"...I am to die to myself and allow my life to be used by God for Himself and others."-LAH

I will tell u how it is for me... I am acoa (adult child of addict/alcoholic) so for me growing up in this dysfunctional home -- I never focsed on me and always self sacrificed for others - codpendently fixated on everyone else. I didnt know what self love was - and I had never tried to actively love me until I was in program and 37 yrs old. The first year I spent in program, I worekd to focus on myself bc that was next to impossible for me at first. When I did get me in my focus, I had this false guilt for doing so, doing something good for me. My logci told me to ignore the guilt bc I knew putting me first was - self preservation and I knew that healthy people did that.  My only goal in prgoram was to get my mind and emotions healthy.

So, Idk about that line up there, yes u surrender to god but I dont think u ought to put others in front of you, as that beahvior almost killed me several times.

In so doing -- putting me first and loving me like my own best friend & main priority -- I got more understanding about what love was and my compassion grew. I was honoring my life and my self - that which was my gift from god. Once I realized I was wasting my life by not honoring me and putting me first - it was a no brainer to love me first.

The 2nd question - "...I plan on finding my own thing to do on nights when he is most likely to drink rather than being home, aren't I making it easier for him to drink?" -LAH

um, we cant stop them from drinking or anything else. The realtionship is full of manipulation, u trying to manipuate his drinking or behavior and him letting u think that u do have control by blaming you for his drinking. So, no it isnt any easier or any harder for him to drink, he will ALWASYS find an excuse or justification for it himself anyway. Its raining, the day ends in "Y", its sunny, u know. Im tired, im stressed out, Im happy - its always something.

I found that when I quit obsessing on my A's and mom, they mustve felt it energetically bc suddenyl they were happpier to see me and they would call me and see what i was up to. I found the same thing very effective with the men I was dating - I did not think about them when we werent together - I put them out of my mind and I found they were checking on me, calling me, suggesting dates much more than ever before. Im the same person, the only thing I changed was, I put me first and focused on me, not them.
   When we obsess on someone, it is like - needling, its annoying and it allows people to feel smotherd. Hey, just try it and see! Ill send some more info on detchemnt in a PM for you.

breezee · Member

Hi ((((Love))))

Welcome!! I've found the only 'dumb' questions are the ones I didnt ask. Kudo's to you for speaking up n sharing whats in your heart and on your mind... today. As you may have noticed, this is a very spiritual program, not particularly a religious one. That allows for many diff belief systems to coincide. The God of my understanding I believe wants us all to be happy, joyous, and free. He/She/It has laid out all the possibilities before me, but it is up to me do the footwork to get myself to happy, n joyous, n free... whatever that may look like to me today.

Have you ever ridden in an airplane? At the begining of the flight, the flight attendant comes out and gives the 'safety talk'... exits at this location and that, seats can dbl as flotation devices, etc etc... AND in the case of sudden air pressure changes in the cabin the O2 mask falls from above. They give specific instructions to apply the mask to OUR OWN FACES FIRST b4 handing it off to our loved ones, nieghbors, or even a child sitting in our lap. Why is this? Because WE can be of no service to another if we dont take care of ourselves and get to a healthy state(physically, spiritually, emotionally) FIRST. This is a very similar sentiment to the alanon teaching of focusing on ourselves and seeing to our own (physical, spiritual, emotional) needs instead of waiting around for others to do it for us, which may or may not occur anytime soon. My Higher Power, of whom i choose to call God, chairman of the ways and means committee, I being only one person on this planet laying the groundwork of His plan for ME to be happy, joyous, n free and showing others 'the way' hopefully by example (preferably a GOOD example altho I've learned bad examples show the way NOT to do it and can be packed full of helpful learning experiences for me too).

Speaking of bad examples...
I was invited to an alanon friends home one day and i was admiring wall hanging of a beautiful butterfly like creature encased in a glass windowbox. It truly was a magnificent specimen with a pin stuck thru it holding it to the cardboard underneath. I remember thinking "how odd... i didnt know she was a collector or anything..." So i offhandedly asked her about it. She told me the most wonderful story... i have her permission to share it with others ;). so here goes...

She was working in the flower beds one day, kneeling on the stone sidewalk and weeding the flowers around her hedges when she found this beautiful lunar moth (the one in the encasement). It was on the ground flipping and fluttering around. She was afraid this gorgeous creature would attract the attention of one of her dogs or cats and become a minutes worth of 'play toy' and be ripped to shreds. So she helped it out by gently scooping it up and placing it high atop the bushes away from impending dangers and then went about finishing her weeding. A couple of hours later as she was returning to the house, again she spotted the huge bright green/yellow moth on the sidewalk again, this time it was dead. This saddened her to think that perhaps she didnt place it far enuff back on the bush into safety so she again scooped it up gently and took it into the house w/her placing it on the counter, not quite sure why or what she was gonna do with it. It was just so beautiful and such a shame... Later on that evening she did some online research as to the type of moth it was and found out some interesting information about its development/life span etc... As it turns out... when they are ready to hatch from thier caccoon, they make their escape and thier wings are wet and curled. They fall to the ground, flutter around awile, beating thier wings to get circulation to them so they can eventually straighten them out and fly to safety, live thier little moth lives. She had unknowingly, unwittingly 'helped' the little bugger to death!! It was then that she had decided to purchase a window box for it as a reminder to her to leave her hands off and practice a little detachment even when it seems like the complete opposite of everything ya know to be true and right. God may have other plans, and He works in mysterious ways... who am i to second guess that. :)

As for question #2 about detachment... it's more than just a physical kind of detachment or seperation... altho that also qualifies as a form. Detachment to me is more of an emotional/mental thing. As all that enmeshment that used to have control over me and my emotional states was not a good place for me to exist let alone flourish. Doing my own thing, getting myself to a happy, joyous, and free state of being... if another cares to join me at that point or any other... even better! Icing on the cake of life. Learning to enjoy and love myself has opened up the door for others to join me on the path enjoying and loving themselves too... and when we're doing it together that truly is the bees knees... being catapulted into the 4th dimension that i'd heard so very much about but had not had the opportunity to experience it first hand till i found alanon and learned about all the intricacies of the practice of 'detachment'. Learning to enjoy/love my life myself helped greatly in my learning to enjoy others right where they are... whereever that may be, even w/thier wet curled wings fluttering around on the ground possibly in harms way... today.

Hope this helps. Take what you like...

Love in alanon,
Wendy

Jennifer · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello Hopes,

I like your questions. I wrestled with similar thoughts at times. My faith was not so much the challenge, it was my thinking that if I did not care for my A that I was not doing what I should do if I loved him etc A very kind lady asked me a question and i can't remember exactly what her words were but I will come close at least in the idea. She asked if I had one months worth of food in my fridge and the grocery store closed for good, would i starve myself to make dinner for others? I was a little shocked by her question but thought about it and said yes i probably would, I feed my animals before i make my own dinner, I give my guests the choice foods before myself. Her next question to me was what if by eating the food for energy to plant a garden and feed many who may starve after you are gone was an option. Well of course i would do that. We spoke some more and afterwards i understood, self care gives me the energy to help many people in the ways I am able to, whether my energy comes from spirituality or Alanon, a bubble bath, food or reading material, whatever it takes to make myself strong and healthy to be guided by my HP. It does not help my HP or myself to become rundown mentally or physically if it means i am unable to follow my path.

Detachment to me means letting go of the need to feel responsible for someone else's decisions and the after effects those decisions have. It means that i do not blame myself for my A's decision to continue drinking. It means I do not take personally the harsh things said or actions done while he is drinking. In my case, it also eventually meant physical detachment. Detachment for me really means keeping emotional distance from the disease, a way to care about the person but protect myself just as i would from someone who was contagious with the flu. Put on a mask, wear gloves, disinfectant spray handy ... whatever tools i can use to keep myself hopefully from getting sick too.

Thank you for giving me these topics to spend some time contemplating!
Jen

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello again , taking care of yourself first for me means to simply not allow myself to be used or abused by the behavior of anyone else , to not allow someones disease to take me down with them ,to not do for them what they should be doing for themselves everytime we rescue we are allowing the disease to continue were actually helping them drink ..
Staying home or not he will drink if he feels like it ,it all comes down to choices for me , stay home and be miserable or go out with friends while he does what drinkers do ..
Taking care of yourself dosent mean we don't care for others or do for others , in fact I have found that the more I look after myself the more I want to do for others the difference is that Al-Anon has shown me when its time to STOP. and allow them the dignity to live t hier life the way they choose .
Helping others dosent mean I become someones doormat .

ayjay · Veteran Member

This is a real interesting thread and makes so much sense. It made me visualise a beautiful fountain, where the top well needs to be full to spill over to the well underneath etc.
I guess that is like us, we are the top well and we need to fill ourselves with energy and love in order to be able to pass on to others. How can we give to others if we are an empty vessel because we don't give to ourselves?
If my life affects me to a point where I am not considering myself, not eating well, not considering my feelings, not giving myself time and nurturing, then I am physically and emotionally drained and can not offer my family or my clients very much.
That is where detachment comes in for me. I can easily be sucked into the unhealthy behaviours of my partner, that drain me and bring out negative aspects in myself which drains me even further.
At the moment for me detachment is about stepping back, letting go either emotionally, physically or both. Looking at my part by observing my reactions and feelings to the situation, and working on that. So instead of being stuck in trying to manipulate my partners behaviour to help me feel better and him, I am using the situation to observe my own reactions and work on myself. If he is hurting and in a bad place, he has to find the way out, I can not do it for him. If I do it for him id be controlling and stopping him from learning how to do things for himself, then he would be dependent on me instead of substances. Tempting for someone like me who has fears and insecurities, but not the healthy route. That also would not be true love.
I am trying to learn what true love is. So far I feel it is about seeing everyone as equal, including myself, im not better or worse than anyone else and neither is anyone else. If there is someone with a good job, it does not make them better than someone with no job, as we are made up of so many qualities and they all balance out equally. If the person with a good job has some negative traits, which we all do, you can bet the person with no job will have plenty of good traits to balance out the equality.
So if we are all different but equal, then it is respectful to know that we all make mistakes, we all learn from them, so if we try and save others from their mistakes, we are stopping them from learning and growing. Why focus on another persons problems when we all have them and there will be enough of our own to focus on. Then we can grow side by side with that person.
Sounds great in theory eh? I certainly need to start practising what I preach :)

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha LAH...What a thread and what responses!! Excellent and I relate so much to
both yours and those who responded afterward. Truthfully it was my religious
experiences that drove me into Al-Anon. By the time I was fully ready to be martyred
at the feet of my alcoholic my church told me that they could not help me but keep
coming back and my HP led me to the hotline number for Al-Anon. One group I
had known intimately for a lifetime said we can't and Al-Anon told me when the next
meeting was and to get there as quickly as I could. Alcoholism is not a moral issue.
It is a disease and after I found out that I didn't try recovering from a disease using
a theological treatment...It was part of what drove me crazy. Imagine the angst I
felt when I first heard the 2nd step? Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves
would lead us to sanity.   Arrrrgh. But I was told...you're to young yet. Give us 90
days and then decide if this is for you. If you decide it isn't we will gladly refund
your miseries and you can try something else.   I know lots of others who have
tried something else including their former programs and I wouldn't trade places
for any promise.

Secondly I had to come to an understanding, in this program (again not my church)
of what I was dealing with which included understanding at times I was living and
reacting with my wife and at other times my alcoholic. There is a difference a big
one. When she wasn't drinking which was usually during a recuperation from an
alcoholic event she was a beautiful child of God and woman and my wife. When
she was under the influence of alcohol she was a child of God which was difficult to
define by her presentation and behaviors, she was about any bottles woman and
she was unable to be my wife. I longed to be with one and got crazy enough to
want to kill the other.   So there were many times she would not want to have a
relationship or spend times with me. I was far from valuable to her, myself or
anyone else for that matter including the God of my understanding.

I had to keep coming back and listening with an open mind and then practicing
a new trust that this program would work for me; mind, body, spirit and emotions
and would help me build an active intimate relationship with my....Higher Power
which is not an alcoholic person or any other addiction I might add.

I'd like to tell you a recovery event which happened to me with my HP after I
got into Al-Anon and thought I understood how things worked.   I figured that
if I got into the program and straightened out my thinking abit, my feelings a
bit and my connection with my Higher Power I would then have the right and
authority to resume my power and control over my alcoholic wife and tada!!
the problem would be solved (through my own efforts of course). On a very
rare (0nly once it turned out) Sunday my alcoholic wife agreed to get cleaned up
dressed up and pretty and along with step children attend mass at the cathedral
I worshiped at. I was pleased as punch and when I drove into the large crowded
parking lot I was beaming like a solar disk. We walked into church and after
choosing an appropriate pew I knelt down facing the altar with that 12 foot
cruscifix behind it and while still beaming heard my Higher Power ask, "What is she
doing here?".   I'm not the dumbest man in the world but I got the question and
knew the answer right away. It was still my will. It wasn't her's and it wasn't HP's.
For once I knew what shame felt like. I got soooo many answers on that one event
that I never attempted that again. My alcoholic wife was to seek her own start of
a relationship with her HP 4 or so more years later that my HP used it as a lesson
in humility for me. Her first 10 days in rehab she voluntarily wore a sack over her
head with the spoken realization, "If I don't allow myself to be blindly led in this
recovery, I will never get it."

You do not have the power to make an alcoholic drink or not drink. Whether they
are or are not it should have no affect over your relationship with your God. Just
the way it works.    (((((hugs))))) smile

Love Always Hopes · Member

Thank you all so much for your insights. The pictures you painted of what detachment looks like and what caring for me while loving others looks like were extremely helpful.

I am humbled by the willingness of you all to take so much time to encourage me and many others on this website.

Thank you.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"