The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I don't mean, like, what is the definition of it. I know what it is and I know what I am suppose to be doing, but I mean HOW?? HOW do I get to the point where I can? What are some tips and hints....like baby steps where to start?????
My husband is an alcoholic. He will not admit it. In fact, he said he loves drinking and will never stop and if I make him choose, he will choose the alcohol.
I work and he does not. We have been married 5 years, together 11. His drinking has gotten bad in the last 3 years. He used to be a social drinker, then a heavy social drinker, the a binge drinker like once a month, then a binge drinker like once a week. Now he's drinking something every day. He drink to get "buzzed" as he calls it. Blah Blah Blah.....I'm sure you all have heard the same story before.
He is verbally and emotionally abusive. He knows his spousal support "rights" in California, and in my opinion, would love me to leave so he will have a nice place to live and 45% of my pretax income. He will be living pretty while I work my ass off to pay for him to live the single life.
I am angry....no I'm PISSED.
So how do I detach, in a loving way? I am turning into him. He drinks 8 drinks and I turn into a mean lunatic drunk though I haven't touch a drop. I have even stooped so low to tell him that is he drank himself to death I wouldn't cry. I think I meant it.
I wish I had an answer for you - I was just about to post a similar question.
From what I've learned this past year in the program - you need to focus on yourself. Easier said than done in my opinion. I can't seem to turn of those chattering monkeys in my head.
Hopefully you will get some good answers from some more experienced members.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help - I just want to let you know that you're not alone.
-- Edited by N8SMOM on Saturday 20th of March 2010 12:35:06 AM
Cindy, I hear your frustration. I have been there. You learn to detach with the tools of Al-anon and by your everyday experience with the A, you see that it doesnt work to carry on, yell and act like a lunatic. All it does is make you sick and tired and changes nothing.
The A is going to continue to do what he does best, As long as he is not in a recovery program, he will continue to drink. Please continue to come back to this group and try go to a face to face ala-non meeting if you can. It always helped me to pick up the Al-anon material and read as much as I could.
You take it one day at at time, or one moment at a time. My question is why do you think you have to leave your place.? You didnt mention if you have children, do you? Don't think that you cant have boundaries. Having my own boundaries helped me. I am still in our home and he is in his apartment. He crossed my boundaries and he is gone and now we are divorced, but this was my solution. You have to find your own , thru your higher power. I wish you the best.
Aloha Cindy...Learning detachment isn't an overnight lesson done with a snap of the fingers or if you've found where I've lost it, the wave of a magic wand. For me the process was getting into the face to face meeting rooms of the Al-Anon Family Groups and listening and learning...Slogans for detachment (just don't say them... do them) Let Go and Let God, Turn it over, Don't React (my best), and others. It is about learning to say and know the Serenity Prayer and building a relationship with a Power greater than yourself and your alcoholic so that you can turn yourself over to also. Detachment is learning how to focus on your own needs like peace of mind and serenity and centeredness and others and learning how to create those as a priority while not letting disturbances like the alcoholic rock you from that practice. Detachment is about learning how to not let your mind wander over to other attractions, not letting it get hooked into other people places and things which use to distract you and attract you and then contract you away from your own success and happiness. It is learning how to break the ties...those ropes and tethers that keep you acting and reacting to what the alcoholic is doing that is none of your business and all of his responsibility. It is about allowing him to own his own stuff and keeping it separate from yours.
Detachment is an on going behavioral artform for me when done well I can allow the other person/alcoholic to be exactly who they are and have all the stuff that they get for themselves without wanting them to be different or like me or what I want. It is a big part of unconditional love. One of the response phrases I learned in detachment (hard one) that I use to practice saying when my alcoholic wife use to suffer the consequences of her drinking was "Oh well" and then walk away without falling into scolding, discussing, directing, offering myself up as the poster boy of recovery and also patronizing her.
I'm looking forward to the responses from the family. Keep coming back (((hugs)))
This is what I have learned....because I struggle with detachment regularly. I have to detach for my sanity and health because it becomes so dangerous to me.
Some people will tell you its time, I think time has a little to do with it, but what it really is, is mind over matter. You have to get into that mind set of detachment and a way to help get to that is to find things to keep you busy, a complete life of your own of things you enjoy and love to do. Not saying this fixes it all in an instant, but it really really helps on those days that you really need it. Force yourself to go out with friends and do things with them more and meet new people....it helps a lot... (((hugs)))
Hi Cindylou. Your post rings so true to me. My AH, too, was a social drinker - then heavy drinker and has been alcohol dependant for at least 5 years. We have had endless problems - but, as you point out, not easy to leave or make him leave for all sorts of reasons - finance being a huge problem.
I have detached emotionally by moving into my own bedroom (I haven't got that big a house but my daughter moved out 2 years ago). This my space and I have made it clear he is not to invade it. Emotionally, and this took a long time, I have just "switched off" I talk to him when he talks to me - trying to stay polite but occasionally, I must admit, it does degenerate into a row.
I have lovely friends with whom I go out and have fun, taking my mind off my troubles for a while. I also find work a God-send, even if I am working to fund his habit!
I changed the account into which my salary is paid (used to go into a joint account) now into my personal account. I have also become a late starter in internet banking but now I can see what is going on with the joint account at a glance.
These are all things which have helped me, Cindylou. They may or may not be good for you. But that is how I have managed to detach yet still live with AH.
Cindylou....this is one of the greatest sites I ever found on detachment. Answered all my questions about the whys and hows :) Check it out as I think that you will find the answers your looking for there. :)
My name is wendy. Although i'm new to this board, i'm not new to alanon; so dont let the label "Newbie" under my nick name fool you;) Detachment is one of the most useful tools in this program and an easy enuff concept to grasp, but the tricky part comes as you so aptly pointed out, in the carrying out and applying into our daily lives ... IMHO that's probly why there's so very many pages of reading on the subject in our alanon daily readers. If you look in the index in the back of the books you will find subject topics and corresponding page numbers w/readings about those subjects... In the C2C book alone there are 14 page #'s and the ODAT contains 21 seperate readings dedicated to that topic alone!!! I dont believe thats a mere coincidence!
When i first started my journey in this program my initial attempts at detachment were trial and error/ hit n miss at best and definately didnt fall under the 'with love' category... was more like detachment w/an axe! I simply left the immediate vicinity of the chaos so as not to become tripped up in my reactions. I still keep a daily reader in the bathroom on the back of the toilet so i can duck out at any given time and innoculate my brain w/a lil alanon wisdom. Learning to respond (or not) and not react was paramount. One of my favorite prayers, that i still use today btw is "God, keep one hand on my shoulder guiding me thru this life and the other over MY MOUTH! Amen". As i seem to have had a malfunctioning brain to mouth filter and some of the stuff that came outta my mouth i really wasnt very proud of... whether it was my true feeling at the time or not. My sponsor told me that i didnt have to attend every fight i was invited too. Just because someone was throwing a bunch of crap my way didnt mean i had to don a catchers mitt and catch it all or throw it back at em. I could choose to duck! I HAVE CHOICES TODAY!! The only person i can change or control IS ME (on a 'good' day;). Some oral responces to use instead of getting sucked into the drama when dealing w/my A's and have served me well are "Cool." "Bummer." "Let me think about that." and "You may be right." of course that last one i either had to immediately leave the room after uttering or follow up with ".... ON MARS!" but only in my head, i dont say that outloud ;) One good thing i can point out about living with active alcoholism is that that i'm provided PLENTY of OPPORTUNITY to practice this program and more specifically detachment. I admit some days i'm better at it than others... and thats ok. It's all about the progress and not the perfection, THANK GOD! Learning to focus on myself/my needs is key, the acronym HALT (Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired) meaning to stop whatever I'm doing right then and there and look at those gave me a starting place to determine my own needs at any given time. Ditching the idea that if everyone would just listen to me and do X, Y, and Z... MY life would be ok. How screwed up is that kinda thinkin? Alanon taught me that MY LIFE could be ok no matter what anyone else thinks says or does. I had to learn how to take care of me so i didnt get wrapped up in thier stuff and turn into the angry crazy screaming lunatic that i could become but didnt want to have to GO THERE, again. Doesnt mean i dont care about them... i just learned to care about me a lil more. I dont need to get myself all worked up over a bunch of drunken BS that they may or may not recall the next day... but i sure would. Today i can choose to clip and paint my toenails or whatever instead. I dont have all the answers for myself, so I most certainly dont know whats best for another. Being aware that that illusion of control is an insidious sneaky lil bugger that likes to creep up on me and bite me in the backside is also helpful and brings me right back to step one... I am powerless... but i'm not helpless. My life doesnt HAVE to be unmanageable. My life is all about MY choices, today :)
Wow, what great ES&H the family has offered! I love it and agree with it all.
The thing in your post that rang out to me was this:
"I am turning into him. He drinks 8 drinks and I turn into a mean lunatic drunk though I haven't touch a drop."
There was an awareness in this for me. As I learned more about myself through working the steps, more about codependency and love addiction through Al-Anon and my studies, I learned that I reacted to my A in many of the same ways as the A does to alcohol. All of a sudden there was a similarity in our behavior AND the triggers ...AND... THE SOLUTION.
Their solution is theirs to find, but coming here was the first step in MY solution. If you are not already attending Al-Anon, I recommend you do. What to do next will come, but that would be my next action. Then it is little by little - all good things take time.
The big thing for me, is as I started to see this behavior and the similarities it held to those of alcoholics, I all of a sudden had compassion. Doesn't mean I have to LIKE their behavior, that I don't get angry, I don't get hurt, but I accept them for who they are. I can remember what it was like when I was in the midst of insanity and I empathize. I then do what I need to do around that to take care of myself, but some of the anger and blame dissipate.
It is like we/they are stuck in a round room with several doors out. The entire room is painted yellow. So we/they think that the entire world is yellow. This is life. This is how it is. (yellow being insanity, bad behavior, drama filled life etc) While in the throws of this insanity/sickness the doors aren't even visible. There is no way out. Maybe this is how life has always been. . . change? What change? Life could be different? That is not even a question to ask as it is not even a concept to grasp. Then maybe the concept finds you and the doors become visible. Then the idea of walking through one of them, then taking that action, then learning to live and thrive outside that room - altering yourself and behaviors to a better way of life. This process takes time. The new behaviors like detachment, setting boundaries, better communications skills, better self confidence - they come with work and practice.
If I walk out the doors and someone is left behind and can't even see the doors, can I be mad at them? I can't show them the doors, they can only find them themselves. They can only walk out themselves. But can I be mad they only still see yellow? All I can do is look back and say "Ouch, I remember, I understand, I have to take care of me - the world is FULL of color - I won't believe it is just yellow anymore."
I guess this was a bit of a ramble - but detachment for me is a direct synonym with acceptance or empathy. Whether it be someone in the throws of insanity and sickness or a simple disagreement - I try to treat them as a complete and separate entity that I can not control and accept as they are. Because it is the truth. So instead of "Why did you do that? How can you act that way?", instead of hurt, blame and righteous indignation, I say "Ok, you are you, you are who you are, you do what you do, these are your choices." and take care of myself around that. I still get hurt, I still get angry, I still feel all my feelings - but the acceptance helps me temper my motives and reactions around those feelings.
Hope that helps.
Tricia
-- Edited by tlcate on Saturday 20th of March 2010 10:39:24 AM
__________________
To be trusted is a greater compliment than being loved.
Hard to add to all the expericence that has been stated above My question is if he doesn't work... where is the money coming from to buy his booze? Guessing a joint account Might i suggest you remove most of that money out of the account and open another account under your name only. This way he will have to find another way to get his booze ( and he will). There is nothing in your marrage contract that states as long as you are married he gets half of what you have. SO if you are going to stay with him that would be the first step I would make. You do not have to keep him supplied in booze. He will still have a roof over his head and food in his belly. I totally understand the ramifications of separation or divorce as my sister is having to do exactly what you stated above... keep her ex living in the life style he has become accustomed to but only for a set amount of time. he has never been able to hold down a job and she makes incredible money
For me, I set my first boundary and followed through on it ~ for me. After I did that, then I expereinced emotional detachment for the first time. I felt self respect and self esteem return. It was priceless, the feeeling of autonomy and liberation it gave me, I was taking care of me. I too was going to share the site link that dream gave - that article helps tremedously, read it weekly (or daily) until it absorbs.
You have to focus on YOU and what can u do to allow you to feel better in your situation and about yourself, today/right now. I quit looking ahead and focused on that ~ just today. Ask yourself what can u do to feel better and then do it. I also had to determine what my true needs were versus the fantasies and things I "wanted". When I got down to it, my needs were very simple.
I used the 6 guidelines below to set boundaries for me and it worked.
6 GUIDELINES FOR SETTING BOUNDARIES
HAVE CLEARLY DEFINED EXPECTATIONS.
CLEARLY DEFINED CONSEQUENCES THAT DONT DISRUPT YOUR SERENITY.
SET THEM CLEARLY.
COMMUNICATE THEM THEMCLEARLY.
ENFORCE THEM CONSISTENTLY.
WITHOUT REGARD FOR THE RELATIONSHIP (RELEASE ANY EXPECTATIONS ABOUT THE OUTCOME).
Boundaries are to protect you. Not to control someone else. No one respects an empty threat, so make sure it is something you can follow through on.
The boundaries are for YOU. In time u may change/alter them to suit you or the circumstance. When u out grow a boundary and dont need it anymore - u will know that too.
If u want to combat the disease, focus on YOU not ur AH bc when u focus on an A, u lose YOU. It is just that simple - not so easy to do but it comes with practsie. For me detachment is like faith - it takes me practising it, to achieve it - I keep me in foucs and allow other's the dignity to deal with their own issues and feelings. You can support and love them but dont take on their "junk".
Welcome to MIP and alanon. Take care of YOU, whatver that looks like.
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
Everybody has given you such great ESH, I don't have too much to add besides this.
Detachment takes work. It's not some place you suddenly arrive at, but a tool you have to use every day until you forget that you're using it.
Just remember that you are worth it. You deserve a happy life, so start building that for yourself.
Also, separating finances was a big step for me personally in my detachment. Knowing that we're both responsible for our own lives on a certain level really helped me separate my emotional life from his.
Also, I wanted to draw attention to something you said: "He knows his spousal support "rights" in California..."
Do you know YOUR rights? Take some time when you're clear-headed and get some legal advice. I bet it's not as dire as he makes it out to be. I don't know CA law, but I seriously doubt any divorce judge in her right mind would give a man 45% of his ex wife's income just to drink himself to death. Don't take your AH's word for it! Arm yourself with cold hard facts!
__________________
"It's a job that's never started that takes the longest to finish."
~ J. R. R. Tolkien
Detachment for me comes down to stopping the enabling , stop doing for him what he should be doing for himself - work . separate bank accounts one that he and his addiction cant get at ... keep all receipts for things u have paid for . nothing in his name etc , you have a right to protect your future as best u can . You say he knows the Cal . laws == do you ? have u contacted a lawyer for yourself u have rights too . Don't pay his bills anymore = make him responsible for his own mess . Don't believe the lies anymore and don't lie for him or cover up his mistakes .. Dont play the games anymore , it only takes one person to change to create change and until he is forced to take responsiblity for his part in this mess nothing will change .. time to step aside and let life unfold the way its supposed to . Do that by taking care of your needs for a change . If your not already please find Al-Anon meetings for yourself u need support from people who have been where your at . with or with out him u too need to recover from the effects of another persons drinking . Don't know where to start , pick up one of our detachment pamphlets that little piece of paper changed my life and also Page on July 14th in our ODAT do what it says to the best of your ability and your life will get better . Its not enough to read the literature , do what it suggest .
Hi, I just posted that question a short time ago and printed out the detachment website someone had listed for me and I see it's posted for you. I read it daily, sometimes more that once a day. I just keep reading it so that it becomes second nature. I have NOT been focusing on myself but rather on my AH. My husband is not in denial and is in recovery meetings, however, when he drinks, I feel like I'm going to lose it for days on end. So who's the unhealthy one? Me as well. This is what happens in alcoholism. I always remember, I didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it. It's tough. We all have had control issues but when we remember that we are only in control of ourselves, we begin to get healthier.
This was my first post on this site and I just can't even explain how thankful I am for the responses. For the first time in an 11 year relationship, I am finally taking up for myself and his drinking is getting worse instead of better.
As we type I am getting ready to got to bed in a separate room for the second night in a row. Funny thing is: He didn't drink tonight but instead mentioned the fact that he was drinking every 5 minutes until I couldn't take it anymore.
We were suppose to go out and celebrate my birthday and he made a comment about the fact that it was going to be a "boring night" with no alcohol. I stopped getting ready and told him I was going to bed because I wasn't going to be his second choice tonight. I cried for a long time and I'm still crying, but I feel good that I took up for myself.
I am going to church in the morning for the first time in years and that he does not like either. Too bad.
I would write more to each response right now but I am exhausted and need to get some sleep. I will be back tomorrow.
I've SO been there! Detachment is hard. A couple of things I have found helpful for myself are:
1. Get busy doing things I like to do. I more or less gave up my life to be home all the time to keep an eye on my AH. I guess I subconsciously believed that he wouldn't drink at home if I was there all the time, since I knew he wouldn't drink in front of me. This didn't work because he'd just find an excuse to leave the house and get drunk whenever he felt like it anyway, of course. So I became a hermit with no life and no friends while he continued to drink ... and I continued to act like a raving looneytune when he didn't do what I wanted. This continued until I found something else to do. When I got busy, I got better.
2. I used the "fake it til you make it" idea. I didn't feel like I was indifferent to whether he drank and what he did, but I acted like I felt that way. Over time, my thoughts changed to be in line with the actions. I've heard people say here that you can't change your thoughts and then change your actions, it has to be the other way around. I've found this to be true.
I hope this helps - glad you're here and hope to see you back real soon!
