Partner told to STFU on AA message board - Al-Anon Family Group

Sam72 · Veteran Member

Partner told to STFU on AA message board

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

That is one of the reactions I had to wean myself off of...the trying to protect my alcoholic
from the stuff she got herself into. It was hard and I was able to learn how to do
it without wanting to put her in a safety zone far away from anyone that might
hurt her. Without severe intention she could Pee off the Pope from thousands of
miles away...course she use to get to me too truth be told.

I read the post you were told about and believe that the poster spoke generally and
not directly which doesn't matter to a still drinking drunk because then everything is
taken personally and they can do "poor me" better than anyone.

I have been told in early program to "sit down and shut up" (only remembered the
eff word being used once, by an elderly silver blue haired meeting chairperson...I by
the way deserved it). In early recovery I didn't know anything and everyone knew
that but me. Somehow I decided that the self centered, self righteous, self will run
riot was the best way of revealing how absolutely an astute I was. Good for me I
never got to the "tute" part and it was necessary for me to sit in place, shut up and
listen. I knew nothing about recovery. I am glad I didn't use the suggestion to run
out more than once. If I had taken it toooo personally I'd not be alive today.

Keep coming back...sit down, listen, learn, practice over and over and over.

(((((hugs))))).. smile

John · ~*Service Worker*~

you admit he is still drinking... yet somehow think you know how to reach him better than a group of recovering, and recovered alcoholics?

Let him lick his wounds (stop licking them for him), his self rightous pride and ego got hurt, nothing else. It happens to the very best of us.

If and when he gets sober, and stays sober he will better understand what he is being told today. Until then, he is probably in for more dents and dings in the ego.

A drunk sharing how AA should change its program or meetings is simply a drunk trying to fix something that isn't broke.

John

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

Your husb a big boy let him deal with it , bottom line John is right and you can't con a con . Posting here about what goes on in AA rooms or boards will get u nothing useful for you. come here and post for yourself about yourself and we can help . better yet find f2f meetings . HIS recovery or lack of it is not your business . get the focus back on yourself where it belongs .

Sam72 · Veteran Member

The way I was raised is that you give people respect. How is telling someone to shut the F***k up. The right thing at any time to say to someone who is reaching out for help. I disagree with what has been said and I also feel attacked. I received a private message on this post and now I see why the person sent it to me privately. Thanks for nothing and no I wont keep coming back. I was under the impression that Alcoholsim is a disease. Where is the compassion for someone who is sick. Like any of you if someone attacks someone you love you would be angry. How is that licking his wounds. He was suggesting an idea not trying to change AA. You call him a drunk. yes he has a drinking problem, but never does he conduct himself in a way that people would even realise he is drunk. in actual fact people are very surprised when they are told he is an alcoholic. Did you all really read what he posted. Oh and John, What makes you think you know my mind. I dont beleive I can reach him better than a group of people that have had or still have the same Disease as him. I just beleive that at no time is it warrented to tell someone to SHUT THE F***K UP. In a forum where people are there to get advice and help. If someone said that to you or any of you on here. I would still think it was uncalled for. I told people I was angry about it, but a I said I didnt do anything about it, but come on here and say what I'm feeling. So please explain how i am fighting his battles and licking his wounds. His so called self rightous pride and ego as it was put has not been hurt. We are just in shock at how self rightous other people who make these comments on the AA site are. Thankyou so much to the person who messaged me privately. I wondered why it was sent that way, but I see now that, that person would have also been attacked.

mac57 · Veteran Member

It seems to come really easily, when I hear someone complain, to size up a situation based on the experiences I've had, and make a judgment, based on similarities as I recognize and relate to them. As universal as situations may seem to be, everyone's journey is personal and unique to them, no matter how easy it seems to size it up. Nobody deserves to be dealt with in a rude or hateful manner, and most of us have found ourselves feel the brunt of forcefulness, in one way or another, when being reminded to align ourselves with the program of recovery for which we came for help.

I think I understand how stinging it feels to be on the recieving end of that remark. Moreover, people who reach out in alanon to to "protect" their partners, however misguided it may be, are still reaching out, in hopes of finding compassion and understanding. Isn't the truth itself harsh enough without having to hammer it home?

Having said that Sam, making a complaint on an alanon post about an AA post that was made to your partner, is like filing a grievance in the wrong department. Alcoholism is a far reaching disease, we are all affected by it, and in that regard the problems it causes overlap, as do some of the solutions. However, there is a reason these are two separate programs. Some of us have been affected by loving someone who is an alcoholic, others suffer with the addiction itself.

You have the right to be angry, everyone does, you also have the ability and the opportunity to look past your frustration to the peace and serenity that awaits you, both of you, as you participate in the steps of recovery made available to you in these programs.

Good luck, and many blessings to you

White Rabbit · ~*Service Worker*~

I read the post on the other board and did not feel like the poster that said STFU was directing it at your partner. I'm sorry that you felt attacked.

I hope that you will keep coming back here or find some f2f Alanon meetings. Living with alcoholism was overwhelming for me, but I've found some sanity here. I hope you will as well.

Peace ...

idontknow · Veteran Member

Wow there is a lot of crosstalk here. This is a reason I went to another 12step program for a while, to sort out my feelings, because I got sick'n'freakin'tired of people telling me how I should feel. It broke my heart in two one night when I was sharing about how much it crushed me that I feel so hurt and neglected by this person I love--my alcoholic, and the next day i got a phone call from another member. she said my alcoholic behaves that way towards me because I don't love her right.

I believe the purpose of program is to share how we feel and leave it at that. Not invalidate other peoples feelings because its "not right" they feel that way.

Sam--its the hardest thing in the world to love an alcoholic. it makes me crazy and heartbroken too. Hope you find some peace within you

intothewoods · Veteran Member

Sam, there is A LOT of anger coming off your post. Who are you really angry at? Honestly?

Also, you say you came here to vent, but really you didn't. You came here so that we could all nod our heads and say "yes, yes, how terrible." And when that didn't happen, you got defensive and angry.

Sometimes this program can be harsh, but living with an alcoholic isn't always sunshine and roses, right? Sometimes we need harsh to jolt ourselves into reality. I've heard/read some stuff that struck me the wrong way, but you know what? I've stuck with it and now I see the wisdom.

I hope you can find some peace with yourself and your situation, with or without Alanon.

-- Edited by intothewoods on Sunday 17th of January 2010 11:20:25 AM

blender_girl · Senior Member

(((Sam72)))

I'm sorry you're feeling so much anger, but am glad you are acknowledging it and letting it out.

You've gotten some very good, varied feedback on this thread. Some of it may sound tough or downright mean to you, but I think that sometimes we all need this type of "tough love" in order to grow.

When I first came into Alanon, there were a lot of things that bothered me about it - some things seemed harsh, other things seemed really far fetched. But what kept me coming back was when I was told to take what I liked and leave the rest.

I didn't like it when other members asked me tough questions that forced me to look at my part more closely, but I did like the unconditional love, acceptance and understanding that was given to me the instant I walked into that room. I needed to heal a bit before I could really get to work on me.

"Take what you like and leave the rest" gave me permission to work my program as it suited me. It gave me permission to keep coming back when I didn't necessarily accept everything that was being said.

I hope you keep coming back.

love in recovery,

bg

Diva · ~*Service Worker*~

The "f word" is one that I refuse to tolerate. Unfortunately it is freely tossed around in today's syntax. Lack of civility is never in good form, so perhaps Sam's objection is not the message but the words used to convey it.

Her feelings are hurt, and she is angry. It is not unreasonable for the loved one of an alcoholic to react when he/she feels the alcoholic has been unkindly dealt with. Haven't we all been there? Considering our situations, we should be the first to assign the benefit of the doubt. Sam's assessment may be wrong, but she feels the pain nonetheless.

So I say, welcome her here, and teach her the tenets of AlAnon. she needs our help...not our criticism. Her partner is another matter. He needs to confront his own demons.

Very sincerely,

Diva

-- Edited by Diva on Sunday 17th of January 2010 11:55:12 AM

david62 · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Sam,

I too read the tread over on the AA board and from my perspective it was not a personal attack it was a sharing of experience.

There is a difference between AA and Al-Anon. One of them is the very real threat of dying from drinking. While it is true that we in Al-Anon can certainly die from our thinking, and I am being serious about that because I almost did, there is a much greater sense of urgency in AA from the very real consequences of an Alcoholic continuing to drink.

That being said...sometimes AA members are rude. Unnecessarily. I heard a nationally known AA speaker this last year speak at a conference. He speaks all over the country. I hate to call him "famous" but on the speaker circuit he is.

He has a powerful story and is a engaging speaker. He is very pro AA program and guards it ferociously, as in my opinion he should. Because it works. It works the way it is. It does not need to be fixed as it is not broken.

He makes a point to tell those new in the program to show respect for the program and for the people in it. I saw him tell two young men who were wearing caps inside the conference center that they should remove them inside the building to show respect for AA.

And yet this same man uses profane language through out his talk. And I know it is offensive to some. I actually saw some folks get up and walk out. What a shame. It is a shame because they did not stay and listen to his message, and they might have missed something they really needed to hear. What a shame the speaker does not show respect for the fact that there are ladies present, and that it gives AA a bad image to use such language in a gathering of over 800 people from all walks of life.

I did not walk out. I was moved and impressed with the message he gave in spite of the language. Would have been the same with out the cussing? Yes and more would have stayed to hear it.

Can I change this man to stop doing it? Absolutely not, and I would not if I could. It is who he is.

I take what I like and leave the rest. That is the way it works.

Don't let any one person, or even a whole group of people that are members of any AA or Al-Anon group keep you from getting the recovery available.

You say you won't keep coming back. That is a shame. Because you might be missing out on something you really need, that can change your life for the better.

Yours in Recovery,
David

DreamXL · Senior Member

I was in denial a long time myself and i never saw it....when the student is ready the teacher will appear :)

Christy · ~*Service Worker*~

I guess we do have similarities with the A's because I've seen it here too . There will be many wonderful replies to a post... with one reply that the poster takes issue with.

All the other wonderful ES&H falls by the wayside and the focus is put on the one that created drama within the poster.
I've gotten nasty PM's myself with people calling me names because they don't like what I've said. I can't fix them nor do I want to. I choose to leave it with them, it's their issue.
IMO, if you post on a internet mssg. board and ask for feedback or use it as a blog, you can't control what you get back. You don't have to like it, but it serves no purpose to play the victim to one reply when there were many with great ES&H to choose from.
This site is for recovery purposes. You'll have to decide which is the bigger issue in your life.

Christy

-- Edited by Christy on Sunday 17th of January 2010 02:36:41 PM

Andrea12 · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Sam,

I just read the post you are upset about...First of all...that is his recovery and has nothing to do with you.

You have to have your own recovery sister to deal with the issues of living in the world of addiction....trust me I know it is hell...

You say people would not even know he was an A I think you have blinders on and need to remove them...My husband was an a for so many years I can't count..held a good job raised his kids....however, everyone knew he had a problem......now his problems are gone because this disease took his very life.

The thing about getting sober is there is a harsh reality of looking at yourself in the mirror....and the wisdom of those who have been there in invaluable...maybe he should not have to told to STFU just shut up and listen.

You have the right to post and vent as you wish here. that is why we are here however we don't always agree.....

Take what you need and leave the rest.

By the way Sam there was some wonderful ESH in many of the post replies to his post.

Yours in recovery,
Andrea

-- Edited by Andrea12 on Sunday 17th of January 2010 02:15:04 PM

Ness · ~*Service Worker*~

Its ok to be angry...is it all about the AA post?

I found when I got angry on the As behalf it was usually fuelled by fear. When I left his business with him I reclaimed my serenity.

This recovery business is not a bed of roses as someone else said, we are told to take what we like and leave the rest. Its a tough disease......on everyone.

Having read the responses to Bretts post I found a wealth of ES&H there.....maybe he kicked off at that one phrase because reality hit him between the eyes.....just my take.

Dont let the anger stop your recovery, I hope you will keep coming back.

((((((hugs))))) Ness

Sam72 · Veteran Member

I have taken what I needed from all your posts and now I have left the rest. Yesterday I was to angry to see the good parts. I may have made the mistake in complaining bout a post on AA. I didnt realise that I couldnt do that. I thought I was just sharing how I was feeling and thought it would be good to tell you why and let you all have a look for yourself. I also dont think I have blinders or blinkers on, when it comes to my A. Unless people are lying to me, I can tell you know that alot of people dont realise he has been drinking. I also dont beleive that the comment was in general, no matter what anyone Says. When the opening words of a post are "Welcome but STFU" To me that was aimed at one person and one person only. So to sum it all up I still dont beleive that at any stage it is ok to tell someone to STFU. I'm not sure now what I can write on this message board, cause I thought I could write about things that affect me concerning My A. Well that affected me. I havnt learnt any of the tools that you all talk about yet.

RLC · ~*Service Worker*~

Sam,

We are all here because we have been affected by someone elses drinking. We are told when we come into the program to have an open mind and we can find help. Reguardless of which side of the fence we find ourself on in any particular situation no one is usually 100% right.

I'm not a judge, but if I were I might suggest letting by gones be by gones. I have a saying...... "In the big scheme of things it's not going to matter a hundred years from now anyway". So, you keep coming back and posting and I'm sure you will find some ES&H just as I do each and every time I come to this board.

HUGS,
RLC

maresie · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm sorry you were offended by posts over on the other board. You certainly are welcome to come here and talk about your feelings. We all do that. We all at various times come and talk about how the people in our lives affect us. There is also nothing wrong with doing that at all. You are welcome to come here any time, talk, reflect and learn. I know for me when I first got here (now many years ago) I was absolutely lost at sea. Over time I got to learn what people are talking about. you can too.

Maresie.

Sam72 · Veteran Member

Funny thing is He didnt get any where near as angry as I did. I think I have got enough feedback now on this post. I have been put in my place and I accept it. Thanxs. also what is a service Worker?

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

hi Sam welcome. I am glad you found us and felt comfortable enough to share.

I have noticed that AA members speak of themselves and to others more what I call harsh, than we do here.

My own ex AH calls himself a drunk. They tell each other to get off the pity pot or call what they say stinking thinking.

They know what each other is going thru much much more than we do.

I can imagine what made you feel so badly! Here your A who is sick, actually goes to an AA board only to be told to shut up! geez. lol But as you said, your A took it a lot different than you did.

I learned the A's disease is his own. It is none of my business. Got to where I did not want to hear about it. Unless he really wanted to share something. I did not want to hear about recovery, or meetings or whatever,that was all his thing not mine.

I no longer wanted or cared to hear about rehab. Well just go if you choose to.

But I loved him, enjoyed what I could of him. I was so so much freer and not sick anymore when I did not allow the disease to pull me down or take my mind away for any reason.

Please keep coming back, it is really cool how much we can learn from each other. I also want to say, what people say here is their own experience. They are not telling each other what to do or having anything against you or anyone. Sometimes it may sound so with out it meaning to be.

We come here to learn. We learn at our own pace and what works for us. I can tell ya sam, I love it when I feel someone is coming down on me, sometimes that is the only way to get into my hard head!

Also we all area work in progress, no one is perfect here.

hugs, love,debilyn

Sam72 · Veteran Member

Thanks tricia, I'm not sure what AA meetings are like in other countries, but I have been to a few open meatings here in Australia and I'm not trying to cause any trouble or keep the discussion going but, never ever at any of the meetings Brett has been to has he ever been told to shut up or anything like that. It just doesnt happen in the meetings that he has been to. He has been to meetings in three different states and they are all the same. Just thought I would mention that. Maybe thats why we got such a shock and why I reacted the way I did. It is not the norm here and we are also only new to the message boards. now we know that things are a bit different on this site, I wont take things so personaly any more. Cya and thanx again to you all.

Sam72 · Veteran Member

Thanks again Tricia, Murwillumbah is 300 Kms south of me. Iam currently in Queesland but I'm moving in two weeks to back to Melbourne for a couple of months, then moving on to Tasmania, so I will be far away when u get here. You know I feel so much better now that It finally dawned on me about meetings being different in the U.S. In no way am I critisizing the way things are done over there, but it is blatantly obvious to me now why people couldnt understand why I was so shocked. I would be very surprised to learn that at any meetings over here, people would say things like STFU. If they did the chairperson would pull them up straight away. As I said Brett has been to meetings in Tasmania, South Australia and Queensland and they are all the same. So I hope that now people will understand why I reacted the way I did. I wasnt to know that it was quite normal behavour in other countries to tell people to shut up. I dont mean that to come out like I am having a go at other countries either.

Sam72 · Veteran Member

Gotta say that the bunch of heathens dancing aroung with sticks did make me giggle. Thanx for clarifying that. Although I never had the bunch of heathen image in my head. but I was under the impression that the actual meetings were quite different. But as you have said they are really not very different. Although the after meeting that I have expperienced after the open meetings are just the same as the meetings. Brett said that all the other meetings he went to, afterwards people act the same as they did in the meeting. If they are having problems they usually take one person aside and have private discussion. I'm so sorry If you were a bit offended by my thoughts on your meetings, It was certainly not my intention. but I couldnt help but laugh at the image I got in my head about the Heathens and the sticks.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Just got home from my morning Attitude Adjustment meeting....There are many ways of
adjusting attitudes including an in the group in your face method which was done this
morning using all of the language of maximum emphasis available. Someone hurt
another one's feelings and the reaction (wholistic) was true program. It doesn't scare
love away and isn't strong enough to cause a willing, honest alcoholic to go back out
and drink. I thought of you during the meeting as a part of my own experiences. it
was pure family dysfunction until the end where the hugs and amends and apologies
and all where present. Not like my family of orgin at all. ((((hugs)))) smile

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