"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Reaching again...

kitty · ~*Service Worker*~

I was in denial for a very long time that I was acting like I was trying to control evrrything and everyone. A few yrs ago, hurricane Ike hit and as my mother and I were busy trying to manipulate ppl to do this or that - I finally saw my own behavior in the process - I did a 180* and worked to not manipualte anyone for anything. I was shocked and dumbfounded when the heavens opened up and I could see myself, acting like that, it was by divine design. I think so much of healing has to do with what is in god's time schedule and not ours. I was making an effort to god by showing that I wanted to change by working a program and dilgently trying to change by focusing on me and setting boundaries. Until the hurricane hit however, I could not see my own behavior and I genuinely thought I was not being controlling anymore.

So if others tried to convince me, I wouldnt have beilived, I think god gave me the awareness and conencted the dots for me that day, bc it did feel like the heavens parted and I had this aha moment.

Ive seen in program, that when I really want something, best thing to do is not fixate on it. It works that way too when we ask for an answer from god, we have to ask but then clear our minds and not stare waiting, demanding an answer.

Also, if we are in denial or lying to ourselves, it is less likely that we do recognize the truth. The more brutally honest I can be with myself, the less likely anyone can pull the wool over my eyes.

Rocky38 · Senior Member

Hi Jerry,

I'm not in the oldtimer bucket, but wanted to share on this topic.

My experience of denial was first in the denial of the disease affecting my husband. He was always a heavy drinker, but I never saw the disease for a long time. Even when it became clear that not a day could go by without several drinks. One day, I noticed shaky hands at breakfast (and thought it was a neurological problem), another day I noticed alcohol meant for me was being drunk by someone other than me ( I worried it was my son!). Then I noticed drinking before I got home from work. But I did not put it all together until his first hospitalization for withdrawal, DTs and pancreatitis after a weekend away with friends where he could not drink as he had been. BANG!!!!!!!! Denial obliterated.

My second experience of awareness of my denial was in awareness if how sick I had become in trying to control his disease. I was insane with actions taken to protect, eliminate, stand in front of the consequences of his disease. This denial did not depart with a bang like that of awareness of alcoholism. This denial was/is harder to shift. The power of the program and recovery has lifted the veil slowly. Thank HP! If it came away so quickly I do not think i could have survived it all at once and I may not have been safe with a cruel and sudden awareness of it all at once.

I believe that Denial is our brain's method of protecting us from that which we cannot handle right now. HP's wisdom is what it takes to know when.

Hugs, rocky

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Jerry,

When I first arrived at the doors of alanon the only tools in my tool box were: DENIAL, PRETEND, Self Pity, Anger, Resentment and the big one Fear.

I did not understand how I used Denial and all these other tools until I really started to focus on myself and the big thing :" Examining my motives"
Focusing on myself and examining my motives really broke my ability to deny reality

Dening reality helped me to pretend that everything was fine and that the elephant was not in the living room. I did not have to deal with it It was not there and all was well. Looking back I see how destructive and unproductive that tool was but I forgive myself because I had no other tools to cope with alcoholism.

I can remember one morning years ago, my father had stayed over at my home and we were having breakfast. My husband joined us and opened a beer. After he left my Dad looked at me and asked,"Don't you know that someone who has beer for breakfast has a problem?" I was so surprised as until that moment I really did not see it. Denial at the best.

Today I try hard to continue to examine my motives each evening when I do a 10th step in order to keep myself honest. I do believe on some level I am in denial about my health. I did stop smoking 6 months ago, I am seeing the Dr and taking Meds for a chronic condition but there are other issues I refuse to acknowledge right now and although I am aware of it I am not there yet ready to deal with it So I guess it is progress not perfection. I think when we are ready, as Rocky said, HP will show us the road. That works for me. Hope this touched the issue for you.

Betty

White Rabbit · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm not an oldtimer either, but I feel compelled to share. I've been thinking a lot about this the last couple of days. Kitty, some of the things you said kinda hit home for me.

I've been in denial about some things, too - mostly thinking that I'd surrendered control, but I really don't think I completely have. My husband has about 9 months of sobriety. His last relapse was really hard for me and I did a lot of controlling things. I've thought that since he got sober again that I've surrendered and understood that I can't cause it, cure it, or control it. But that's not entirely the case. I took a good hard look at myself this weekend. There have been many times that I've thought about going out with friends or doing something for myself, but haven't done it because I've wanted to be home with my family. To some extent that's true. He works all day and goes to school at night, so we don't have a lot of time together. HOWEVER, I have also realized that part of my unwillingness to have my own life and keep up with my friends is because I fear what may happen when I leave the house. I fear that he'll do whatever it is that I don't want him to do while I'm not there to supervise. It occurred to me this weekend as I was leaving a meeting yesterday that he's going to do whatever he's going to do whether I "supervise" or not. He'll find another time to do it if I'm home and he can't do it then. If he wants to do it, I'm completely powerless to stop it. Staying home, being a hermit, and isolating myself from the things I used to enjoy will not even be a roadblock for him. And not to mention - do I want it to?

There's a section in the big book to the family that talks about what happens when the alcoholic first establishes sobriety and how shaky the family can feel. I've read that section over and over. It's true - if there's something keeping him from being sober, better that it be discovered now. This does not mean that I need to snoop, attempt to stand in the way of what he does or doesn't do, or get involved with his program in any other respect.

It's hard to completely let go. I think I still have a lot of fear that I haven't yet released. I'll keep coming back, keep working on myself, and keep reminding myself every day that I'm not in control, I've never been in control, and I never will be in control. This is denial to me today - to think I've been in a state of surrender for the last 9 months, when really, I haven't been. Tonight I'm praying for surrender, and tomorrow morning, and tomorrow night, and every day and night after that. My husband can relapse today or next week or anytime. I need to stop worrying about that and just worry about what I have the power to do - which is pray for myself and concentrate on the things that need to have my focus.

Thanks for the thread. I needed it.

RLC · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello Jerry,

When I came to Al-Anon I was told by the "old hands" in the room that we in Al-Anon are all fixers and controllers. Of course I knew they were wrong about me, because they also said we were all crazy when we enter the rooms of Al-Anon. After listening to some of the ladies (I was and still am the only male in the meeting) tell some of the things they had done to control and stop their alocholic from drinking I had to agree, they were crazy. But, not RLC. I found out later how true what they said really was. It did not take long for me to accept that they were absolutely correct, and yes, I was just as crazy as those ladies, possibly a bit more. A week before I went to my first Al-Anon meeting I had cut my index finger wide open on a piece of glass digging through our kithern garbage can checking to see how many beers my alocholic wife had drank that day. That was at 11:30 P.M. after she had gone to bed. I think that could be considered crazy and in denial all rolled up in one.

I have attended two meetings each week, Mon. and Tue night for last 3 years, and after the first several weeks it started to sink in that I might have a few problems also. Over the years lots of my friends and family had asked for my advice on fairly regular basic. I always just gave them my honest opinion whatever their problem, be it business, personal, or family. I was one hell of a fixer and took a little pride in the fact, or else why would they continue asking for my advice? Now back to the "sinking in" part I was referring to above. Why could I fix others problems, but at the same time was blind to my own. Of course I tried to control and fix the Alocholic in my life. I know now that was two fold

, I did not realize it, and when I finally did, I did not want to admit it. I thought I was doing for her what she could not, or would not do for herself. Someone had to do it, so naturally Mr. Fixer would step in. Where I was at the time is what I now call "1st Class Denial". The word fixer sounds better than the word controller when you are referring to someone. But I soon came to realize a fixer is nothing but a glorified controller. One is no better or worse than the other.

I came to to believe and finally accept the three C's of this program, with emphasis on the can't cure, and can't control "C's". I also accept that "Denial" is not a river in Africa. Denial was living in me undetected before I entered the rooms of Al-Anon.

From time to time the "Fixer"in me will try to creep out, and when it does I remind myself that I have enough problems of my own without taking on anyones elses.

Take care of yourself first RLC, boy do I still have a lot of stuff to "unlearn".

HUGS,
RLC

-- Edited by RLC on Sunday 13th of December 2009 10:57:50 PM

-- Edited by RLC on Sunday 13th of December 2009 10:59:25 PM

Loupiness · ~*Service Worker*~

I still am shocked when I think of all that was going on in my life and all I did not know. Once when I was telling my counselor my story and talking of my "denial", she said that she believed to use the word "denial" was harsh, that it references an intentional act. At that moment, that made sense to me. Really, I think it was my primitive fight for survival and for what I wanted that had kicked in. I had never considered any other options for my life. Perhaps this is different than the alcoholic who takes that first drink knowing what outcome will be, but holding onto hope that that it will be different or get better. Or maybe not.

At the same time, it is dumbfounding. He drank too much when we went out (but so did many people). He installed cable tv at his work and rarely came home (but he owned his own business and was working hard to support us). I found a flask in his truck (he went on a fishing trip a week prior and it belonged to a buddy). He was always sick with stomach problems (but he rarely slept and took horrible care of himself). He was mean and defensive (a jerk). And the clencher? A disgruntled employee 7 years previous accused him of being an alcoholic (didn't she know he had stomach problems?). Crazy. It seriously took my marriage/my life to hit rock bottom before I could acknowledge any of it. Once I was drop-kicked into reality, it was clear as a bell, but until then, I did not know.

Blessings,

Lou

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

After AH had the brain surgery, it never "dawned" on me how he was not acting like the man I married at all.

Jer it is even hard to explain because denial to me was, I in no concious spell, way saw how bad off he was.

The extremely horrible thought of him not being him, not being my husband anymore, my being alone out here, him not enjoying love and life anymore and on and on, was wayyyyyy too much for me to even face. We were best friends, lovers, two peas in a pod.

It was NEVER a thought. It was like I did not see it or feel it or anything. It was all happening but it was not at all obvious to me. I was oblivious.

When he spoke horrible words to me as my Mother was dieing in my arms, I handed the phone to my sil, I said who is this, is he saying this stuff???

Then the first time he hurt me physically, I started to wake up.

Have never been that close to anyone in my life. Just could not imagine my mate was not there anymore.

So there is my share hon. debilyn who is still screwed up

Peggy7 · ~*Service Worker*~

My dear friend, all I can share with you is what I heard last night from our youngest A son. It was my bday and the son and his wife and kids were on their way to our house to celebrate when who pulls into his drive way an old drug dealer of his. His instant reaction was to shake, although months ago he had realized by coming clean that he was an addict and seeing none of us were willing to cover for him anymore did he go cold turkey. It shocked HIM that his whole body shook for that HIT that was being offered freely. The dealer wouldnt leave upon request, he kept nodding and grinning and saying its ok, I understand you almost lost everything but just come with me into the garage for a moment. My son was shaken to the bone with his addiction side coming alive. His mouth kept saying not today, not here, not now, dont return. While his mind convulsed for that drug that was so close and being offered as a free bonus . My son described it as a total mind trip, his brain saying "how dare he, on my mothers bday. His lips kept saying no more go away. He knew that one free hit would then lead to yet another then another by then he would be willing to give away everything to pay for the next hit then the next. I was shocked to hear this news it shook me to the bone. I was surprised since he has been away from it now for so long it could affect him so strongly and pull him so terribly. I had a cruel awareness just again last night. How close he always remains just one decision again from losing it all.

kitty · ~*Service Worker*~

I also was in serious denial that I was walking around judging everyone by my own standard and even my alanont hat. Ive come to learn that I dont have to judge others bc their life is none of my business. Ive also learned that recovery happens in god's time, not mine.

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

For me, reflecting about how much denial I was in makes me roll my eyes and shake my head at myself - there were always so many blatant red flags and obvious indications of a major problem, but I kept rationalizing them away... My ex-AW drove drunk with the kids too many times to count, and in effect, I "allowed" this, at minimum by my not taking more direct action.... It was amazingly easy to fall into the many traps of "why" these things happened, or the particular circumstances as to why it happened, etc., etc.... My sponsor used to bring me back to reality by getting me to focus on the "whats", and not the "whys".... I was also in denial about how much her alcoholism had affected me.... I would talk to counselors, and say how I need to be the healthy/sane one, for the sake of the kids, etc - they would remind me, rightfully so, of "who says I am healthy/sane"?

For me, denial was almost a choice - call it subconscious or conscious - it was a coping mechanism so that I did not have to deal with the reality of the situation.... When I got myself healthier, I was able to stop living in denial, and accepting life on life's terms - the good, the bad, and the ugly....

Take care
Tom

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"