people who judge our higher power make it difficult for us to recover. - Al-Anon Family Group

dawna81 · Member

people who judge our higher power make it difficult for us to recover.

Christy · ~*Service Worker*~

That's an honest question but bound to get a rise out of someone. There are those that believe their HP is the ONLY HP and anyone else's idea is wrong if it should differ from the status quo. So when someone doesn't believe in that particular form of HP...well, you saw what can happen. I haven't had any dealings with NA but I thought all 12 step programs refer to the HP of your understanding. There are always a few that don't want to allow you that privelage, but feel free to remind them.

Personally, I don't feel there was ever an intention for different religious sects to organize and make rules about who or what HP is or wants. IMO, HP is universal, not divided by any group.  That's what creates controversy, division and wars.....and upsets people in 12 step programs...lol

I respect other's beliefs also, as long as they don't attempt to impose them on me.  I would ask your husband..If their HP can work HIS program?"
They can't work his program for him and their HP can't work it for him either. It has to be HIS HP, whatever that may be. His HP could simply be the appreciation for life itself or the inner energy that sustains life, whatever that source is to him, whatever he deems his HP to be .

I just work the words of the program to suit my needs. Instead of "turn it over to HP", I rework that to " release to the Universe, Source Energy" .
The important part of the saying "Turn it over to HP" is to release it, not particularly where it goes.
Your husband need not get hung up on wording or other people's belief systems.  As long as he understands the core workings of the program he can work it in whatever way works for him.

Take care,
Christy

-- Edited by Christy on Thursday 29th of October 2009 01:13:03 AM

SLS · Senior Member

Well, I am sorry that your husband is having difficulty with the concept of an HP. It's not uncommon though and hopefully, he will continue to work his own program and come to find a HP that will work for him.

I am glad that you have found an HP that works for you as you work your own recovery program.

I am not aware of any negative comments on this board about differing HPs, but I have not read every thread. Are you certain it was the Al-Anon board??

I my experience, different Al-Anon meetings can take different takes on HP--and some meetings are healthier than others. I am aware of a few meetings in my area that have strong opinions about what HP must be--I stay away from those meetings. Its not my job to tell anyone else who or what their HP is. I am in Al-Anon to learn and to get healthy myself. My recovery is mine. I try to focus on keeping my own side of the street clean and leave everyone else to their own HP.

Yours in recovery,

SLS

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

It was that very topic that caused my husb to stop going to AA , three well meaning members cornered him one nite and pushed too hard , and that was the end of his meetings , my husb is an agnostic and for him that works he only attended one meeting a week after that and it was a joint aa and al anon meeting we went to on a sunday morning where the attitude was much more relaxed
. Step 3 was the hardest for me to come to terms with too , took a long time , for me a HP was the groups that I attended and the people in them , together they were more powerful than I ever was .
I stopped having those conversations with my husb as it was just another excuse for an argument , I believed he didnt we just leave it at that .
And really i believed that it was the excuse my husb was looking for to stop going to meetings anyway clever little devil that he was .
I love our 3 obstacles to success in Al=Anon makes it very clear that we are welcome wether we believe or not .

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Dawna...I relate with this post so well and empathize with your husband
but not because of 12step recovery...before recovery and one reason I got into
recovery.   My first addict was a religious fan-atic...God I'm grateful for the "get
a divorce" prescription I got from my family doctor. Living with and being married
to my alcoholic/addict made much more sense than the fanatic. If I didn't believe
like they did than I belonged to the church of the devil.  "Oh God...go pour yourself
a drink and get over it" would have never worked.   And then because of recovery
my own perception of the God of my understanding then is different than it is
now and my relationship with God is beyond my expectations.   How amazing
is that?

People will do all kinds of stuff in and out of the program and the program gives
me the solutions as to what I can do with it...take what I like and leave the rest.
I'm staying in my Al-Anon chair. This is where I got it right for me.

(((((hugs))))) smile

-- Edited by Jerry F on Thursday 29th of October 2009 01:40:59 AM

david62 · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Dawna,

That is why we don't discuss religion in meetings. I personally have no problem with anybody naming the God of their understanding in a meeting. If they want to call their HP God, Jesus, the Inner Light, the Group or the Coffee Maker that is their business. Absolutely we don't have the right to define or put down another's belief.

For our own part, we know that it doesn't matter if someone else thinks our HP isn't good enough, but some folks will use any reason to avoid actually working the program. Perhaps it isn't the person, perhaps the disease uses the excuse of "someone doesn't think much of your HP" to avoid actually focusing on and working the program.

You might suggest to your husband that every time someone says to him, "you'll never get better without God" that he can just substitute in his mind that g o d stands for "good orderly direction".

Yours in Recovery,
David

Karilynn · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Dawna))),

I too have had issues with that. My husband's father found sobriety through his church. It worked for him. Hubby and I took a different view of HP. It's whatever works for us. I don't like being attacked for my view of HP nor do I like it when people are attacked for their views. I take what I like and leave the rest. This is a program of acceptance and healing. Perhaps your hubby can find another NA meeting that is less aggressive in their approach. Continued success and recovery. Love and blessings to you and your family.

Live strong,
Karilynn & Pipers Kitty

drucilla06 · Senior Member

How many times is GOD mentioned in the 12 steps? Serenity prayer? The meeting closing prayer?

That being said,Alanon teaches us that we can only control ourselves, and no one can control us without our permission.As David said you can change the word God to coffeemaker,but the meaning for you is whatever it is regardless.It's not the word that matters,it is that you believe in a higher power.The fact remains,without that power greater than ourselves,we will stay in our disease.

Another saying we have in Alanon is ,."take what you like and leave the rest."
So if someone gets on the board and says the tree in their backyard is talking to them and everyone on here should talk to trees,you can discard that and still stay in the program,work the steps,and have recovery.Or you can say,uh, 5 people agreed with talking to trees,I can't stay in this program.........and you can continue to be in the disease.

The opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily those of MIP,it's members,moderators,or Alanon as a whole.

Thanks for the post,
Dru

maresie · ~*Service Worker*~

I haven't seen the negative comments so presume they are on the AA boards. I am not sure I can comment since I haven't seen them. I know I used to want all the time to have the perfect environment to get serenity now I know I have to make do with whatever I can create.

Maresie.

Jen · ~*Service Worker*~

I have gotten irritated at times in meetings when a member or two takes it upon themselves to try to direct everyone elses perception of HP. What I came to understand is that no matter how long a member has been in the program(s), they are still here because they, and we, are struggling with a disease. None of us is perfect. (One AA member locally has 30 yrs in the program and still cannot accept other perceptions of HP. LOL)

One of the aspects of addiction is having a narrow view of the world and an ego that says anyone who doesn't think the way I do is a threat to me. They seem to think that if I do not believe in their HP then I am saying that they are wrong. That is their character defect to deal with, not mine. It is sad to me, but I probably have defects that others can see that I am equally unaware of.

Understanding that it is a program of progress, not perfection helps me to let it go when I feel that someone has stepped on my HP's toes. Also, principles above personalities applies to the length of time a speaker has in the program as well, not just things like clothes, money, job, age, etc.

The bottom line is that if we want to get better, we will take what we need from the program and not let this kind of stuff get in out way.

In recovery,

dawna81 · Member

this all happened on the AA board....i neglected to say that, and i apologize. but its a comfort to him to know that people think like he does and i thank you all for your comments. it really helped. =)

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.