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My AH was in recovery for a very brief time after a stint in detox and an IOP. He has resumed drinking again and is using daily (although he says he's not because perhaps 1 day out of 7 he might not). When he went through treatment and I participated too, I stated I would no longer drink alcohol either, in order to be a support for him and to have an alcohol-free home for our children (who are genetically predisposed to become alcoholic). I am a less-than-social drinker.
Let me add that my AH and I are very disconnected (obviously) and that I am a newbie with Al-Anon, attending 2-3 f2f meetings per week. Last night I got home from work at my typical time which is around 10:00. Our kids were in bed, he was drinking wine, and I had 2 glasses with him. This is the first time I've drank since June when he was in treatment and we were focused on an alcohol-free home.
I drank because 1) I felt that he was drinking regularly now, so my abstinence was not a needed support any longer 2) our kids were in bed, so would not be aware of him or I drinking, and 3) I have previously enjoyed a glass of wine after work to relax.
I'm feeling so guilty this morning about this...sending a wrong message to my AH (approval?), breaking my commitment to an alcohol-free home (although he's certainly broken this already), joining with him--in relaxed conversation in part because I was more relaxed, and feeling as if by my drinking, it takes the "heat" off of him and his drinking. I'm confused. I don't know what is right with this.
Do Al-Anons typically abstain from alcohol, even if you are not alcoholic? Do you ever drink with your alcoholic? I would love some thoughts and perspectives on this as a newer (4 month) Al-Anon member.
First off: Attending 2 to 3 alanon meetings a week is awesome. It is clear you are working a strong program.
In answer to your question about drinking I just wanted to say: I too enjoyed drinking with my spouse early in our relationship. When alcoholism appeared it was apparent that he wanted me to keep him company more and more.
I decided I needed to stop drinking for my own sanity and serenity. Alcohol is a depressant and made me nervous and anxious the next day. I decided serenity and peace were more important than an hour or so relaxing with hubbie with a drink.
Each of us must make the decision that works for us. Consider your options.
For the kids... well... I get into a philosophical quandry when I think about what is really right for the kids. They are genetically predisposed to be alcoholics. There is nothing you can do about THAT. What CAN you do? You can arm them with knowledge about the disease, and the effects it has, and how to stear clear of it all. You can tell them you don't know that if they drink they will become alcoholics, and that that worries you because you see them has having brighter futures. You can tell them you hope they will choose well in their lives. You can support their abilities to make good decisions now. And you can show them what non-alcoholic drinking looks like-- what a normal, sane, non-genetically predisposed drinker acts like. You can show them that limits are possible, and that there is such a thing as drinking responsibly (you) and that what their dad does goes beyond that. I think in other countries where kids are allowed or encouraged to drink, the attitudes towards alcohol and towards alcholics is a lot more realistic. Kids get taught how to be responsible. It's like having guns.... where I live, there is a lot of hunting, almost every house has guns... and rarely are there accidents or murders. Do you see what I am saying?
We want to protect our kids. We want them to be pure. BUt they are predisposed (possibly) to the disease, and they live in a world where alcohol is all over the place. They are going to find it, I think, by high school, or college. What do you want them to know about it before they get there? Arm them, give them information and coping skills NOW. And help them be aware.
I am more worried that my son will end up a codependent, than an addict. Living wiht and loving an addict will be very hard for me to watch him do.
Interesting debate, and not one where there is likely a clearcut "right" answer.... I'd offer a couple of thoughts....
If he is drinking a week after detox, he obviously isn't ready to take his sobriety seriously.... If you are drinking with him a week after his detox, you aren't there either - whether that is justified or not - is not likely healthy - for either one of you... I don't understand your comment about you being a "not very social" drinker, but you would not be the first Al-Anon to discover that you may also need the doors of AA....
The Three C's remind us that we didn't cause, can't control, and can't cure their alcoholism. That being said, drinking with the alcoholic doesn't seem to be consistent with us wanting them to have consequences for their behaviors. It is definitely a tangle web - but I guess ultimately, you both have to decide what it is that you want.... if it's sobriety, then drinking wine together isn't the way to go....
Just my two cents Tom
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Hello and welcome , because of how alcohol affected our life I stopped drinking yrs ago , before it became a prob i went with my husb to the bars more just to spend time with him and of course to keep other women at a distance . shesh how sick . In sobriety our sons don't drink in front of thier dad or me for that matter to support him . Drinking with him because u enjoy a drink ? fine he will drink wether u do or not . What u decide to do is your choice , Al-Anon as far as I know doesnt get into that at all . but for me if it makes u feel guilty this morning why do it all , do u really need more guilt ? Louise
It's an individual choice... Personally, I choose to lead by example (to my children) and not drink. Nor would I sit and share a candy bar with a diabetic.
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Aloha K and Wow what a telling post...read it from my set of eyes and you get a different perspective all together.
In and from the program of Al-Anon we learn that we are enablers, that what we do regardless of our intention, support the progression of the disease and that is our side of cunning, powerful and baffling. Damned if we do and damned if we don't. We need to keep coming back and learning more for and about ourselves not the alcoholic.
You woke up with a "guilt" hangover and I'll bet he didn't. He's got a problem with alcohol, a life threatening problem that progress toward death if not arrested by total abstinence. What you have a suspicion about is that your two glasses of wine supported his verification that "it is no big deal and wine isn't really the real stuff, it's okay. The guilt hangover is your consequence and probably because you violated your value system regarding where alcohol is now in your life. Your justifications for drinking with him didn't work...and won't. I went thru the same process and then just quit without confusing myself any longer. I finally became a respecter of alcohol...legal mind, mood, behavior altering chemical. It is made to alter and when I am altered I am different like it or not.
What is right about this? It is an opportunity for you to investigate further regarding enabling behaviors, your belief system and how you exercise it, your real perspective about the chemical and its consequences, how much strength you still have to oppose what is happening in your life regarding alcohol and how much room you have left for more progressive problems with it. (Have you lost as much as you can loose or is there still room to play with)
You're post is very close to what it was like for me, what I found out, and what I did after finding the courage to do it.
Drinking with your alcoholic? How does that make your life better using guilt as a starter.
If you have a sponsor ask that sponsor for help on this issue.
Wow, this is the exact same question I had. My AH hasn't stopped drinking yet, but sometimes it seems like a little wine together or a beer after work at the bar wouldn't be too bad because he's not drinking alone and it wouldn't get out of hand because I am there. We use to really enjoy that. But when he asks to do that with me now, I don't really want to agree but usually do because if I don't he is angry at me and the rest of the night is ruined, even if he hadn't had anything to drink that day. Which I hate because it feels like such a waste of a sober day. I see that I need to change my thinking on this one... thanks for posting.
Wow. This is a great discussion topic for me. I drank with my AH, but things did progress in a downward spiral. I can't even explain it... like you hear here... it is cunning and baffling. My AH's behavior got worse and worse. I accepted it. Everything that would go wrong or that he would feel bad about was my fault and I believed it. He would drink more and more and start drinking earlier or at least have fewer hours in his waking day thathewasn't drinking. My drinking stayed the same or would get less because I would get tired of it. Finally, I realized... "This is a lousy life." It didn't become that in one day... it crept in. My counselor would ask, "What are you getting out of it?" I still don't know except maybe that when he drank he would go away -- into the alcohol -- and I would numb out. Luckily, for us, he quit drinking again and went back to AA. I stopped drinking to support him (us). Now, I do have a drink now and then... he ALWAYS gives me grief about it, so what do I get out of it, I am not sure. Just remember step 1 -- we are powerless over alcohol, the alcoholic, anything but ourselves. So, keep learning. Focus on your needs and keep thinking. You will figure out what you need to do for yourself and your family.
I choose not to drink in my AH's presence, even though he's an active alcoholic. I just feel my drinking WITH him would be a form of enabling or condoning behavior. I don't condone his drinking at all. I don't tell him to stop, but I certainly don't say "Hey, I see you have a beer there, that's GREAT!".
I can drink if I want. I don't have the allergy alcoholics have. I can have a drink or even just a sip of a drink and not look back or feel like having another for months and months after.
If I have a drink outside of my AH's presence, I don't feel guilty about it because I know I can handle it - I'm not being a hypocrite doing what I think my AH shouldn't do because of his disease.
My husband and I have always been drinkers - you name the day and we'd have a reason to drink. After his first stint in rehab 4 years ago, I asked him if he was OK with me drinking in front of him, and he said "yes." So I would drink my wine and he would have non-alcoholic beer. After about 3 months, he decided to start drinking again because he found a counselor who told him (or so he claims) that he can drink beer, just not hard alcohol. So I had my drinking buddy back. Unfortunately every couple of months he would go on a bender and drink out of control for a few days and we would always fight about it.
When his drinking got out of control again in the beginning of this year, I decided to cut down on my drinking for a few reasons: 1) I drink when I'm relaxed and I never felt relaxed when he was out of control 2) I don't think he should be drinking, so I decided that I shouldn't either (similar to you) 3) I don't want our son to see me drinking all the time.
So here I was living with a man who drank every single day and I didn't - I resented him for it because there were times when I would've liked a glass of wine with dinner, but I stuck to my guns.
I'm not saying I've stopped drinking, I've just cut down a whole lot. I'll maybe have one drink when out with friends or one glass of wine after I put my son to bed (if my husband's not home).
Don't feel guilty and don't beat yourself up over having some wine with him last night. He is going to drink whether you drink or not. And I totally understand the whole "relaxed" feeling when drinking together. Things have seemed so "off" between my husband and me since I stopped drinking with him. Sometimes I think that maybe I should just grab a glass of wine and have a converation with him. Wierd, huh?
It's really up to you what you want to do. I understand wanting to be supportive and be a good example for your kids, but I also understand the frustration of this being a one-way street. Do what's in your heart.
Before I met my A, I was a total non drinker, the stuff just doesn't appeal to me. I however, did COOK with alcohol, like making orange peel cake with orange liquer and kept Kahlua for my sister's coffee when she visited, etc.
When I realized that my husband was an alcoholic, and brought that sickness into my home with my child (it was my second marriage and I already had a home and family established), I dumped out and threw away every drop of alcohol in the home and learned to cook without any alcohol at all.
I never missed it.
With him showing my child that you need alcohol to "unwind" and "relax" I didn't want my child to believe that was true. I decided to live a totally alcohol free lifestyle to PROVE to my child that you don't need a drug to have fun, eat good food, relax, or unwind.
That was my choice and my ESH. Do what you think is right for you. But never forget, it is hard to keep secrets in a family in the same home. Never believe that your children won't find out that you are drinking with their Dad. Not that it is wrong, but you wrote you were concerned they would find out. Their Dad is likely to tell them in a conversation sooner of later that you drink also, to try and justify what he is doing as "OK" and "not a big deal".
Because I am an alcoholic, it's impossible for me to have a non-alcoholic view of drinking. I pretty much think of drinking as all or nothing, so having wine after dinner is an alien concept - no matter how much I may have fantasized about being able to drink "normally", the truth is I never did - not once.
Before I got sober, I drank with my wife - which is a funny statement. It's like saying I took the dog for a walk by letting the dog out, and getting on a motorcycle and letting him chase me for the first hundred feet or so until I lost him and didn't look back. I think the first night we "did it" and I lost my virginity, she had drunk two of my scotch and sodas (which admittedly were a little heavy) and I had probably drunk most of the rest of the bottle of scotch. Usually though, our Friday night drinking and watching TV consisted of a 12-pack of Coors or Pabst for me, and half of a wine cooler for her... she'd put the cap back on it and stick it in the fridge. I used to think she drank the rest later but I think it was #1 daughter... LOL.
Anyway, TBQH I don't even remember if she stopped drinking even the little bit that she did after I came to AA. Since it wasn't a big deal, and maybe something she even did just to be 1/24th on the same page as me, giving it up was not a big deal. However, once we officially decided we were splitting up - when I was sober 5 years - she almost immediately went back to her little half-a-cooler routine.
Having been sober a while now, and single for 3/4 of that time, I pretty much decided I didn't want alcohol in my house. I have absolutely no objection to friends drinking if we go out to a restaurant or whatever, and in fact I have friends coming this week that will probably do just that. Just not in my house. I found it's not something to be a prick about, or brag about, and in fact it has probably come up exactly... well, since my divorce, not at all. It's just a non-issue. I got a few jabs from my co-workers about not having any alcohol served at my wedding, but that was our choice. I wasn't afraid I'd drink, or that anybody else would drink. I just felt that if it wasn't for AA, Alanon, and my sobriety, no wedding would be happening. With a number of guests being from AA, and all of that, it just seemed obvious to me that serving alcohol at the reception would be a disrespectful thing to do, and that it was totally unnecessary - so we didn't do it.
As a sober alcoholic, I do not object to my friends drinking, however I don't want to hang around drunks. I have been pleasantly surprised that my friends don't drink to get drunk, like me and the people I hung out with. It's a non-issue. But like I said, I am an alcoholic and I just don't "get" social drinking - it works for them, but I just have to leave it at that.
So I can't say whether or not it's ok to drink with your alcoholic. You seem to have some handle on your reasons, rational as they are. The only thing I can suggest is be aware of your choices. A really good friend of mine likes to say, don't think of things as good or bad, just think of them as choices and consequences. All choices have consequences. If you understand and accept the consequences, and make the choice in full consciousness and awareness - then there is no reason to sweat over it.
With him showing my child that you need alcohol to "unwind" and "relax" I didn't want my child to believe that was true. I decided to live a totally alcohol free lifestyle to PROVE to my child that you don't need a drug to have fun, eat good food, relax, or unwind.
Sometimes setting an example can have unintended consequences.
My dad was an alcoholic. My mom did not drink at all. After my parents were divorced, and my dad later died from his disease, I remember talking to my mom about what kind of person she might be looking for. We all agreed he should be someone who doesn't drink (I was 15 and had not yet started drinking).
Well she met and married someone who never drinks. While he had many admirable qualities, he was basically a grouch, an unhappy, surly person that wasn't much fun to be around. Picking between my stepdad and my alcoholic dad was a no brainer - dad was 10x more fun. So my example of teetotalling wasn't a good one.
When I crawled to my first AA meeting, I was literally resigned to becoming like my stepdad. Even though I was an adult of 31 at the time, my picture of the non-drinker was a surly, workaholic - as the big book describes, "stupid boring and glum". Thank God, that is not what I became. There is a whole lot more to sobriety than just gritting your teeth while you don't drink, looking down on those who do, and whistling in the dark.
Since I've been sober I've found my opinion of my stepdad has softened - maybe he has too over the years. He's a good guy, but maybe just doesn't let himself be happy very much. I really like him a lot more than I used to. He even enjoyed himself at my alcohol-free wedding reception. And I found my new wife gets along very well with him too - his face lights up when we come over together. Gives me a whole new perspective on the dry old grouch
These are some good points you bring out barisax, as usual .
I wrote that I did not want my daughter to think that you need a drug to relax, unwind, and have fun. Because I do EXACTLY that, LOL! How ironic, that in our family the alcoholic is the glum, workaholic, anti-social, boring, bump on a log, and I am the cheerful, fun loving, "life of the party", totally alcohol and drug free 100% of the time (not even caffeine!).
I agree it takes MUCH more to live a happy fulfilling life than being a non drinker, you have to have a cheerful disposition, a positive attitude, and a good sense of humor.
That is exactly what I am trying to teach my daughter by example, you can be happy, cheerful, a joy to be around, be able to have fun, be able to relax and enjoy yourself, all without a drug. I don't want her to think that life is joyless, miserable, and boring for the drug free, as my husband would have her believe. How sad that he feels that way.
I think my daughter gets enough examples of drinking in extreme moderation from my family, most of which drink a glass of wine or beer with dinner. That is ONE glass (for health reasons), their behavior doesn't change, they don't start talking louder or nastier, and they don't stagger when they get up. That way she has a balanced view of drinking and doesn't see people who drink in moderation as a bad thing.
In my case, every social event I have ever hosted, or helped to plan, has been totally alcohol free, and this includes weddings(including my own), graduations, retirement parties, and other important social occasions. We have never lacked for fun, or a light hearted atmosphere, and the laughter and happiness rang out loudly. My husband could never comprehend how people could live a life filled with joy with no alcohol, but eventually he learned and stopped drinking a year ago .
I know the three C's, so of course I am not saying that this lifestyle caused him to stop drinking, but I do think that it helped him to see a different way of life, and that it didn't have to be glum and boring without alcohol. I am glad that I incorporated an alcohol free household years and years ago, so that when he decided to stop bringing alcohol into our home, that was the end of it in the home. He won't open a cabinet and see his "old friend" and be tempted to spend time withit again. He won't have to dread social occasions that I am a part of, since he knows he will have a good time with our friends, laugh a lot, and there will be no alcohol. ALmost seemlessly, he simply joined my alcohol free lifestyle with hardly any effort.
Just sharing ESH about what worked for our family.
You know I stopped drinking because I did not want to give him the message that I approved. He didn't stop drinking.
I do find it useful though because I know being around drinkers can be too tricky. I have no ability to work out what's social and what's alcoholism so I tend not to be around any drinkers at all.
I used to drink with my alkie X AH and I started to "enjoy" the numbing out affects it had on me. I saw the warning signs in my own self - Using the alcohol to run away from my feelings of frustration, lonliness, living with an alkie and I stopped it! he didn't like my stopping, but too bad! I stopped because I saw it as something I could have potentially overdid to numb out and escape my feelings
Sitting and facing my feelings is very hard, but it is better than running to one addiction to another. As a codependent, I have an addictive personality too. Its all about running away from something instead of staying put and facing the feelings, uncomfortable as they may be. I have learned now that I can turn to my program - My higher power - My recovery friends - I can turn to prayer and meditation
I can relate to what you are saying "I can't beat him, so may as well join him" and that does not work. It is not healthy to do more than minimal drinking which is what I do now. I heard it even increases a woman's chances for breast cancer and colon cancer as well. Alcohol is OK if used at a very minimum - I have wine in my house and I very rarely drink it and it is one glass of wine!
I ended up leaving my X AH because our goals were so radically different in that I wanted serenity and peace and healthy relationship and he wanted to drink and get high and that created drama and chaos.
I hope you keep working your program because this program has really saved my life and sanity
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I want to thank each of your for your very well-thought-out comments and your ESH. It has really helped to clarify things for myself, and for today, I am seeing that my drinking alcohol with or without him is not right for me. Just to clarify to Canadienguy---my AH is 4 months out of detox--began using again about 3 weeks after being out of treatment (not one week), and when I called myself a "less-than-social drinker" I meant that I drink less than even a "social drinker" would drink. I had not drank in 4 months to support him. I was not clear about these points, but I think it makes a difference for my dilemma. Anyway! thank you again to everyone for your time and tremendous support.
and of course to keep other women at a distance . shesh how sick . In sobriety our sons don't drink in front of thier dad or me for that matter to support him . 
like you hear here... it is cunning and baffling. My AH's behavior got worse and worse. I accepted it. Everything that would go wrong or that he would feel bad about was my fault and I believed it. He would drink more and more and start drinking earlier or at least have fewer hours in his waking day that
It didn't become that in one day... it crept in. 
My counselor would ask, "What are you getting out of it?" I still don't know except maybe that when he drank he would go away -- into the alcohol -- and I would numb out. Luckily, for us, he quit drinking again and went back to AA.