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information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
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I am stuck. I cannot figure out how to productively find the lines that separate this disease from one's personal responsibility.
I understand that alcoholism is a disease. I understand that many of the things that have happened are just going to linger, or I am going to have to let them go. I have to forgive despite the fact that he will never give them another thought. Obviously, I have issues with that. I know I will have to let go of them.
But where is the line between this illness and personal responsibility? Should I just expect that he will forever do crappy things, and I can either walk away, or just forgive him? He lies. Am I supposed to be okay with it? To accept that as a part of the disease, and just deal with it on my end?
How do you do any of this without ending up bitter? Or in my case, more bitter?
I still to this day sometimes ask myself the same questions about the disease. Once I quit telling myself that my a hubby has so many opportunities to choose to do the right thing but doesn't and really focused on myself did i start to see progress in my recovery. I was surprised about how much I actually learned about his dreadful disease once I quit questioning it.
I too was so tired of being angry. It wasn't until I drew a fine line in the sand between his actions/disease and my role in the entire situation did I start really figuring out what I wanted in life and understanding what it was going to take for me to get there. I think that is the point when I realized that I love my husband as person an not as a husband. The reason I honestly believe that is because I do not want to spend the rest of my life with an active a, sober a, inactive a or whatever kinda a. It saddened me to feel that way and I knew I had to make some major decisions.
Today was the first time I saw him in 3 1/2 weeks. I asked him to move out. He did. And as we speak he is on his way to his second attempt to drug rehab.
I don't know what the future will hold, but I hope its something positive for me.
But where is the line between this illness and personal responsibility? Should I just expect that he will forever do crappy things, and I can either walk away, or just forgive him? He lies. Am I supposed to be okay with it? To accept that as a part of the disease, and just deal with it on my end?
Dear Lucky -
GREAT questions! For me, I know I have a choice! Accept them as they are with no attempts or expectations of change or leave! I can only manage me! If I keep watering another's lawn, they are not going to know that their grass is dying because I have absorbed their responsibility!
I let my XAH go to jail with DUI's and no bailing him out! I let him suffer all consequences of his actions. Sure, when he had gall bladder surgery, of course I carried his load while he was ill. Soon as he recovered, I went back to letting him take care of his own load-
To me? Forgiveness is "giving up my right to hurt the one who hurt me and turning them over to God" - Forgiveness takes only one person - And it does not mean I condone their actions or would not sue (if appropriate) for damages - It just means I am letting go of the hate and revenge - Reconciliation takes two - For him to have reconciled with me, he would have to have gotten into recovery and turned away from the negative behaviors that harmed me!
I left my AH, not because I did not love him or have compassion for his disease. I left because I wanted better out of life - More serenity - Even if I had to go it alone! This disease is, to me, not livable unless he is in recovery and working his program for a sustained amount of time - Even then, the trust would be slow in coming back and the tolerance level would be very low.
Everyone has their "I quit" level - Mine was when he started lying to me about simple things! The trust went down the toilet and that is when I decided to ask him to leave!
I do hope you can sort this out - Just know that you did not cause his illness - Cannot control it - Cannot cure it! There is no cure - Only treatment - It is doable if the alcoholic gets into recovery and really puts his life into daily working the program!
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Hello and welcome , expecting an alcoholic to be responsible is kinda like an oxymoron to me - practicing alcohlics lie its what they do and some sober alcoholics continue to lie . If serious about recovery it will stop . When in a relationship with a practicing alcoholic the only relationship your seeing is between him and his alcohol , you are alone . Alcohol is a formidable mistress no one wins . I hope u are attending meetings for yourself u need support from people who understand , acceptance does not mean u have to agree or support whats going on , you just have to accept that u cannot change it . Keep the focus on yurself and your own needs We have choices we can stay or go either way we too need to recover from the effects of someone elses drinking if we don't u will be doing this again .
Well. He's in jail, and I didn't make any attempt to stop or help in that process at all.
He goes to rehab this week, and I don't know what part, if any, I want to play in his life, or let him play in mine after he gets out.
My problem is in the attempting to sort it out. If he will ALWAYS lie, then why on earth would I be with him? Or even talk to him? If he will never be responsible in any way, why would I do this? How is that a relationship?
Is my only choice to stay or go? No working anything out? Has anyone been the nonA and had a relationship with an A work? Does that ever happen? I don't have any A's in my family or life other than this one, no frame of reference.
I don't know if it's that I expect him to change. When he's not drinking, he SEEMS like a nice guy. Nice enough to have gotten together with in the first place, I guess. I wonder if that's true, though.
It looks like, from the experience here, for the most part, there will never be any reason to expect him to stop hurting me. That's depressing.
I guess, part of my issue is that I've never tried to rescue him or pick up after him. I'm not an alcoholic, I don't have to worry about DUI's or hide bottles, if I don't have to do it for me, I'm sure not going to volunteer to do it for him. It's the emotional part of it that just slays me.
-- Edited by lucky on Wednesday 23rd of September 2009 06:27:12 PM
Abby had some wonderful and very truthful remarks....her opinion is right on....how do you tell when an active A is lying...only one way their lips are moving and that is true with addiction.
You are going to be bitter until you work your own program please keep in mind alcoholism is a family disease...it affects all of us...
Three things happen to an active addict death, jail or institutions that is a fact of addiction.....I like to think of the fourth sobriety......it happens every day for people..and if he truly works his program then in time he will make amends for his past actions.
In order for you to heal dear friend you must work on you...alanon is a wonderful tool right at your fingertips to help make you feel sane again....
Aloha Lucky...From my experience; Get to as many face to face Al-Anon Family Group meetings as you can over the next 90 days and just sit down and listen. Thats it. Shut off your brain and just listen to others. After 90 days make a decision for yourself if the program will work for you and then start sharing your stuff with others. You have already stated you are not alcoholic and therefore don't feel responsible for "his" stuff and consequences...but are stuck. You are a helper and supporter and lover also and the disease thrives on helpers, supporters and lovers who don't have a program of recovery. Your questions sound like they come from enabling...anything and everything you do doesn't make things better; they make things worse.
You can stop anytime you want to and just be personally responsible for yourself and your choices for yourself. Learning that is best in the rooms of the Al-Anon Family Groups. The advise you get outside of the rooms is no where as good or appropriate for mental, emotional, physical and spiritual health than what you get inside of the rooms. Because it comes from a fellowship that has been where you are now and arrived at sanity with the help of others like them.
If you are looking at the alcoholics personal responsibility and when that shows up stop!! If he's drinking he isn't who you desire; hes the alcoholic. If he should stop drinking and get into and working a program of recovery you might then get an idea of who "he" really is. You've got nothing to compare to. People who are fearful lie. The greatest emotional defect of an alcoholic is fear. Keep coming back (((((hugs)))))
Well,don't want to be a downer here but my AH has been sober for 20 years and he still lies about stupid things.He goes to meetings,has a sponsor and I think he is doing the best he can at working the AA program.He talks all the time about how important honesty is to staying sober....and yet.. We have been having problems in the marriage however we still live together sort of as roomates/friends.I just am not ready to give up my house and live alone but I am working on that.The day will most likely come,it's hard because I have never lived alone. I have told him there is nothing he can't tell me.I will understand,he doesn't have to lie.We have been together 40 yrs in Dec,I can deal with anything at this point.Yet the other day when I got home from work,I could tell he had been in my room at my desk.He says he just went in to get some printer paper but one of the drawers was partially open and his cordless phone was on the desk.I asked him about the phone and he said he put it there so I could have a phone in my room.I have told him I don't want a phone in there,I have my cell phone,it's enough.I think that was a lie and completely unnecessary.Then my computer wouldn't go online so I suspected he had been on it.He denied that. Part of my recovery from living with alcoholics all my life is that I am very protective of my things and my space.There were never any boundaries in my family so nothing was ever really mine.I do not care if he goes in my room,uses my paper,whatever,I have nothing to hide.I just wish he would be honest about it.He could say,I just want to see what you are up to.I may not like that but at least I could respect him being honest. Honesty is a big thing with me.I can't have a friendship without it. This has set us back again in the relationship we were building. I hate this disease. I don't want alcoholics in my life anymore.Other than my AH,I try to avoid them.If that sounds like bitterness,maybe it is and I will deal with it in my next 4th step I guess. Recovery is ongoing.I will never be cured from the affects of alcoholism in my life. You only have the one alcoholic at this point still you are already affected. There is help but it's not an instant cure.With Alanon I am gradually finding the best in me and finding a life of my own.
