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I have been reading (and re-reading) Getting them Sober. One of the chapters came into play full force for me last weekend. "Don't beg them to Stay" I had been noticing that my AH had been going to less and less AA meetings and more and more I saw signs that he had been drinking. I ignored all of these and left him to his HP. The topic came up in conversation where he admitted to the occasional drinking and I indicated that I was worried about him because he was regressing, not progressing. Maybe an error in judgement on my part for engaging in the discussion, but I though I would be honest and factual about it. I told him that I understood that difficulty of the disease he is battling, that he is definitely miles above where he was before, but that I would leave with the kids if things went back to being as bad as they used to be. Well, he LOST it. Stated that nothing he did was ever good enough for me, that it was hard to please some as perfect as me, that I had insulted him etc.. He stated "If you want to get a divorce, then get the papers drawn up..., I'll be gone in the morning" I ignored that comment and we btoh went to bed angry.. the next day I can home from work and he was gone. Packed a bag and went to the cottage. I phoned him on his cell phone and asked if he had moved out or if he was just gone for the weekend. He asked what did I think. I said "If you are not willing to accept your powerlessness over alcohol and work the program with all your might, then I think it is best that you move out" He hung up after a few harsh words. I proceeded to pack his stuff. I left the next morning to go to the zoo with the kids (focus on me), and left a note for him saying that I had packed his stuff, take whatever else he thought was fair and let me know when you want to discuss access to the kids.
I came home that night to find him sitting in the dark watching TV. We talked a lot, he cried a lot and stated that he didn't know what he would do without me and the kids. He committed to trying harder in the program and so I gave him ONE LAST CHANCE. So far, he seems committed, time will tell. In the meantime, this was a great trial run for me. As far as I was concerned on Saturday, he was gone and I was OK. In fact, a little relieved. It was empowering. Also, my AH admitted that he had seriously thought of killing himself that night and said that I was lucky that he hadn't come home and killed me and the kids. He has stated once since then during another discussion that if I left, I wouldn't need to worry about child support because he would kill us. He has never been violent before, but is verbally abusive, loud yelling, berating etc. I think this is the last hold he has over trying to make me stay and enable him, and so he is pulling this BS. So, I need to make preparations in advance in case I decide to leave again if he doesn't get truly sober. Should I talk to the police? I don't really want him hauled away to jail yet for threatening harm, but I want to make sure that I am prepared for the future. Now I also know that when I leave, I have to have Mental Health there to haul him away for an evaluation hold....
I would take his threats very seriously. I don't know what the police would tell you, but please get the location and details of the nearest women's shelter, and talk to them about what to do if you should decide to leave. I believe they will tell you the dangers of underestimating threats of violence. Having a plan in place is essential. You may estimate that he won't follow through with his threats, but what if his drinking escalates, you decide he must move out, and he does threaten to kill you? You'll want to be able to have a safe place to go right away, not have to figure something out on the spur of the moment. Your kids are depending on you for their very lives. Please stay safe. I hope you are getting to face-to-face meetings too?
You could talk to a domestic violence agency. That kind of threat is very serious. I do know the ex A who I left was absolutely suicidal now. He was suicidal long before I left him.
I'm not sure a program is enough for your A. Maybe he needs counselling too. Do you have a therapist. This may be a time to look for one so that you are definitely in plan b mode. If your A threatens you again the therapist would have to make a report and the ball would roll on from there. So you would be prepared to deal with it.
I do think its admirable to be ready to go. I would however not pack anyone's things. I would leave and then let them leave. Of course leaving when you have children is a tricky subject but if you left you would at least be safe and unavailable. If your A is homicidal and suicidal you need to tread very carefully. I would not suggest you make any more threats to pack his stuff and force him out. If your A goes down the path of alcoholism (and he has more than alcoholism to conted with leaving is something he will do of his own accord, he'll be dead from the disease).
I try to refrain from giving any advice to people in regards to their relationships (stay or go, tell him you'll do "x" if he says/does "y").
I admit I feel scared reading someone threatening to kill anyone (self or others) should things not go that person's way. What an awful threat to hold over someone's head.
The only suggestion I can give you is to read up more on abuse - as this is certainly abusive in my book - and do some thorough soul-searching on what should be done for your safety.
I know that if I ever left my AH, I'd get a lawyer involved before and/or during a moving out situation. I'd want to make sure I'm covering myself legally and not leaving any open loopholes where I could get really screwed because I just decided to move out or kick him out without keeping our financial responsibilities in mind... ie, doing the "move out" thing in the heat of a "reactionary" stage instead of doing it in a logical response frame-of-mind.
I really don't know what to say here, my husband use to say if I had the guts I would kill myself well he eventually drank himself to death.
As far as the threats to you and your children........wow...threatening you is one thing but your children.......wow....is the life of your children something to play around with?????
I would ask you, what would you do if someone else said this to you?
Myself I kept money, a key to my vehicle, id, phone numbers, and my gun, outside hidden.
Also had an exact plan how to get out. More than one plan.
The police here won't do a thing until something happens. No crime, they don't bother. But a person can get a file opened and keep account of threats and whatever.
Being a mom, but my kids are grown, I am tough about protecting myself. When my A went nuts with my kids home at my house, I immediately gathered them up, and our dog and cats and we huddled together and went next door.
My son was scared to death of him for years.
Anyway again, my esh was to keep me and mine safe. love,debilyn
Aloha Miss...Just some basics? Alcoholism is a progressive disease (as you already know) with continued drinking it never gets better only gets worse. The alcoholic (and the alcoholic's family) has but three choices; recovery insanity or death. I have participated in the insanity and also been witness to the deaths. It's never more real after it happens. Make it most real before it can happen. At one time that was my message to my own alcoholic wife. Everyone has the potential to create chaos and crises. You always are responsible for self care and safety.
Thanks everyone for your insights. I was helpful to hear the concern and fear in your voices, to let me know that this is NOT normal A behaviour when they are facing losing their family, and that I am dealing with something far more dangerous. I will take all your ESH very seriously and will take steps in advance to ensure that myself and my children can get out safely if and when the time comes. I have suggested a counsellor that he/we can talk to, and he has agreed to call. It is helpful to know that they can provide a statement if necessary. I will also get in touch with a local shelter and the police. I always prefer to err on the side of caution.. having keys etc.. hidden outside is a really good idea. Thanks again....
What I have learned in living with abuse and in being in DV counseling and support groups is the most dangerous time for a woman (and children) is when they are in the process of leaving. The abuse (be it verbal, sexual, physical) escalates. Most domestic violence murders are commited when the woman is attepmting to leave.
Go to or call your local DV shelter. Even if you are not ready to leave, even if you decide not to leave, they can give you helpful information so that you know what you are dealing with and what your options are.
Also, my AH admitted that he had seriously thought of killing himself that night and said that I was lucky that he hadn't come home and killed me and the kids. He has stated once since then during another discussion that if I left, I wouldn't need to worry about child support because he would kill us. He has never been violent before, but is verbally abusive, loud yelling, berating etc. I think this is the last hold he has over trying to make me stay and enable him, and so he is pulling this BS. So, I need to make preparations in advance in case I decide to leave again if he doesn't get truly sober. Should I talk to the police? I don't really want him hauled away to jail yet for threatening harm, but I want to make sure that I am prepared for the future. Now I also know that when I leave, I have to have Mental Health there to haul him away for an evaluation hold....
Dear Missy poo,
Now the drinking has escalated into suicide threats and threats of violence - In my opinion, if this were me, I would file a Police Report even if it is just incident report in case you need it later - Also it shows him you are not going to allow this or accept it under any conditions and I would be out the door in a heartbeat -
Threats of any type of violence, so many times, leads to it - "what I do not resist shall persist" and also "what I allow, I support" - I am praying for your safe exit and doing what proactive measures you can do to protect you - I would Re-read Jerry's post - the results are "recovery, insanity or death" - This is serious and danger time now! I see him as no longer safe to be around! Please take care!
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
