The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Ok, this could be a lightening rod of a subject, but I am genuinely curious... Do most people assume that the Higher Power is Christian? I see and hear a LOT of allusions to this in meetings, and just take what I like and leave the rest. I do that on here as well...
I am sharing on step 7 tomorrow and it is a toughy - I just deal with the word 'Him', although my higher power is not necessarily a 'him'. I think the keys words in that step are 'humbly' and 'remove shortcomings'...
What do people think of someone's HP is Jewish, Islamic, Hindu or otherwise? And, why do you think people get so defensive about this? I attended meetings before where they closed with the Lord's Prayer, and almost jumped out of my skin because I felt forced from it and people were checking to see if I was saying it.
'Alanon is a spiritual program, no a religious program'...
I don't assume or presume to know who another member's higher power is.
The only defensiveness I see occurs when someone starts stepping outside the program and either starts thinking that another persons belief isn't valid or when someone takes their own insecurity and becomes defensive when someone else professes their own belief with conviction.
In either case, no one HP is necessary to be in Al-Anon and to get all the benefits the program has to offer. I attend two weekly meetings each of which closes with the Lord's prayer. Some say it. Some say it their own way. Some just hold hands with the group and do their own thing.
No one is any lesser or greater than anyone else in that circle, because of who or what their higher power is.
We are friends and family members of alcoholics who gather together to share our experience strength and hope to fulfill our primary purpose, to help friends and family members affected by the family disease of alcoholism.
The thing I have heard since coming into recovery regarding the steps and whom this HP is...is this. No matter who "him" is, as long as it ain't me, then that is the first step in accepting that there is something greater than me out there that can help me to recover.
Thanks for the post, and have a great meeting tomorrow!
A lot of the A, Al Anon etc is taken from the Bible. But that does not mean it is Christian!
EVERYONE with their hearts HP are here together. We are to own our own HP.
I am a Jehovah's Witness, my HP is the creator. I own how I feel and believe and never push it on anyone.
Also I love hearing about others beliefs too!
It is very precious how we all can come here to heal, have our own HP and have such love for each other.
I have found some to be very skepticle and almost angry. That is their problem!
We have a very loved Jewish member I have come to love and respect so much. We have shared things with each other,even opposite views, and I love to hear hers!
So in saying that, all we have to do to make others comfy here is to own our own beliefs by stating this is my view, this is my belief. My HP is.....if you want to share it.
I am not a Christian although culturally, I was raised as one.
I do not consider my HP to have anything to do with any religion at all, much less Christianity.
In some places (strongly Judeo-Christian places) the Christian angle is very very strong. I do not have a problem with this. I ignore it. (Take what I like and Leave the Rest)
I have attended meetings in strongly Buddhist or non-Christian places and its the same kind of al-anon meeting. We truly are a world-wide fellowship and no, its not only Christians! Everyone is welcome because everyone experiences the effects of alcoholism regardless of their religion. J.
I think Al-Anon takes great strides to ensure that nobody is left out, so religion or other outside beliefs are not relevant. What IS relevant is a belief in the concept of a HP, and that one is definitely spread out amongst all the religions, athiests, etc., etc....
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I can only speak for myself , If i am dumb enough to get into a conversation about a HP it only brings out the worst in me , I imediatly become defensive and the fight is on . 99% of the time I am with David I don't care what others believe , or for that matter if they believe at all . I love the fact that this is not discussed in our meetings - it says in our lit , every one is welcome wether they believe or not thats good enough for me . I love the saying that Religion is for those of us who are afraid of going to Hell , Spirituality is for those of us who have already been there . As for the Lords Prayer , for yrs I stepped out of the circle when i was in a meeting that closed with the prayer ,today I stay in the circle don't participate with out making a statement that i don't agree with it . hopefully thats growth . Louise
I guess technically I am a christian with huge buddhistic tendencies, philosophies & understanding. It has taken me years to remove a lot of the christian dogma that wasnt working for me... I too dislike "him" and do not consider my god to be any gender (ridiculous to me) ~ more like a universal force, impetus of love & all higher knowledge. I mean, Im a person of science but science cant explain miracles or faith. Prayer works.
I really appreciate abbyal's quote -- "Religion is for those of us who are afraid of going to Hell , Spirituality is for those of us who have already been there ." Man, is that the truth! And the truth is what I'm after with my HP.
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
I appreciate and am grateful for all the comments. It is this idea mentioned of 'exclusive' that I am interested in. I agree that too oftent this is the case. I wonder how many Lord's Prayer people would hang in with a Kaddish, Bhagavad Gota Chant or Tao song?.? This is why I think it is inappropriate at an AlAnon meeting. I don't need to fix it - but I don;t have to participate.
I did my share yestserday, let go, and ended up explaining a bit why I am grappling with this, and what came out (thank you HP) was helpful for me and apparently others. One person identified and said she heard a lot of hope in my share - which kinda startled me.
I am also non-religious but very spiritual. My HP is emotional sobriety. I work on recovery daily in both large and small ways.
Interesting tho, I frequently re-visit the 1st three steps which blessedly ground me and I shorthand them as I can't, He can, let Him. Don't know if there's a message in there.
I, too, really have trouble with the use of The Lord's Prayer to close Al-Anon meetings. I only started hearing it at my 14th meeting, and was totally blown away. It took me several days to return to any meeting, and that one didn't use it, then the next two did. I couldn't gather myself to return for over two weeks and discussing it twice with my therapist.
My immediate reaction was confusion. All I had heard and read at meetings to that point indicated to me that Al-Anon worked consciously not to be associated with any sect or religion (as the original poster named this thread), but also that even though some meetings may take place in churches or places of worship, the space is RENTED and does not imply a connection. I had also heard and read repeatedly that ONLY conference-approved texts were part of Al-Anon, and that care had to be given not to impose specific religious beliefs that might make agnostic and non-believing members uncomfortable. The explanations about what a higher power was were continually described as being conceived by the member him or herself. This was working well for me: I was not uncomfortable, and I am prone to be uncomfortable in religion-oriented contexts.
I spent some time dealing mentally with the capitalization of the word "god", as well as the pronoun, never mind the gendered "him" in the printed literature, I confess. I had to dismiss it as insignificant typography and "pronoun trouble" (to quote Daffy Duck, so I could keep my sense of humor about it), and although I maintain such things should be edited differently for maximum inclusion, I know it's hard to get something changed once it's typeset. Maybe in another edition?
Nevertheless, The Lord's Prayer is a specifically Christian prayer, found in two books of the New Testament of the Bible. I was devastated at the first meeting I heard it. (My therapist said she was surprised I'd managed to go to as many meetings as I had by then and NOT hear it!) I have attempted to discuss this discomfort and confusion with various other experienced members of meetings, and with one exception, have been met with incredulity that anyone could possibly have any issue with the use of it. One told me that it was "universal" and "generic" (and couldn't hear me when I pointed out that it was a New Testament text, hence Christian) and another told me that everyone who came to that particular meeting (held at a nursing home) was probably Christian anyway, so what was the problem? WHAT? Both told me that I could just step back and not participate in that part. The trouble is, I'm already standing and holding hands with people when whoever is chairing starts the close of the meeting and I've just been too startled to do anything. I am also trying hard at that point not to respond angrily. I feel betrayed and lied to, and that the encouragement to conceive of my own "higher power" is really just a con: that the meeting is really a covert Christian prayer group.
I do get it that I can take what is helpful and leave the rest, but I have always applied that to individual sharing. I appreciate each individual's faith, convictions and conceptions of their higher power, and I try hard to get at the heart of what they share and sidestep the specific religiosity of the context, accepting it as simply a part of their unique being at the table. I am moved by the caring and compassion of members, especially when I feel it rises above and beyond of an prescribed religious rites and rituals I simply do not share. But the difference here is that The Lord's Prayer is used as a meeting-level structure, and that makes my issue with the organization and group. I have come to these meetings seeking clarity, and this muddies the waters, and I leave agitated and off-center because of it, and it takes me a while to recover each time, diverting me from what I came for. And I am resentful.
For many Christians, The Lord's Prayer is a very powerful one for them emotionally in their faith and religious practice, and any questioning of using it can be inflammatory. Both these men I spoke with were astonished that I would even question the use of this in an Al-Anon meeting. I have only learned from a third person that there is something called a "conscience meeting," specifically to discuss such issues. I will investigate how to do that. He also told me that the Al-Anon Dedication is the Conference-approved closing, but not with the "Keep coming back: It works if you work it, and you work it 'cuz you're worth it," that I've heard consistently after the Dedication at meetings that have used it. He told me that both the use of the Lord's Prayer and that "work it" bit were from AA, not Al-Anon. I really appreciated him keeping in program talking with me about it.
I have tried to keep my discussion about the inclusion of the Lord's Prayer within the context of the program, too. I do not talk about religion or theology with anyone on the subject, just that this is a text is from a source outside of Al-Anon, and is connected directly with a specific religion, and as such, does not belong as a part of a meeting. And when I get religion blown back at me with both barrels, it is enormously painful to me. Fortunately that one person was able to discuss it with me the way he did. That has helped me get back on board and keep at the work I need to do. I don't think that either of the other people who defended its inclusion really did or could understood how profoundly affected I was by this violation of the spirit of inclusion, and THAT, more than anything else, is what has derailed me.
I moved to this area about 1 year ago. The only local Al-Anon group in the town is one that ends with the "Lords Prayer". I have been standing with the group at the end of the meeting in silence but this has not been very satisfactory and even with "take what you like and leave the rest" along with "how important is it", it's not working out. I have tried my best. In examining my feelings, consulting with my higher powers, Al-Anon literature and personal ESH I have decided that I really can't participate in this religious excercise. I will be putting the room to rights as the other members do their thing. If that is still too close, I will leave before the prayer. I will try to "talk to each other and reason things out", but will keep my expectations lowered. I don't think that this group actually welcomes non-christians. They may tolerate but IMHO they do not welcome. I will probably have to leave and hope to find an alternative.
This is something World Service needs to look at especislly considering falling attendance and difficulty in keeping new members.
I certainly do not have a Christian God and my HP is not a Him at all. I actually say Her and She just to make my point that it is different for everyone.
Since my post above in the summer of 2009 (can it be that long ago?), I found a meeting that, by group consensus, tries very hard to stick to the goal of being a group for people of any faith or of none. This is a group that ranges from 35-60 participants, many who have been members for decades, so there is a wealth of experience, hope and strength in the room. We have occasionally done a group inventory, and that has been very helpful. At occasional business meetings, there have been calls for a group conscience, to examine how we, as a group, choose to run our meetings, and we stick REALLY close to Conference-approved literature. Our group rep brought back a concern that had been discussion at a higher level about the use of the "chant" I'd mentioned above, and although we have members who really do like it, we chose to drop it from the basic structure of running our meetings. Sometimes an individual chair may really like it and ask to do it, but generally, we don't use it. The thing I've really liked is the willingness of the people in our group to actually listen to dissenting opinions, I feel they are take them into consideration as we come to decisions. It's slow going, but has been a very valuable experience for me to see this large collection of people actively trying to make our group as welcoming and open and supportive as possible to everyone who claims a seat in the room. I am a grateful member of Al-Anon.
