The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I have always been fairly careful with marriage but after four years of knowing each other (but I lived in another state) and one year of dating, I said yes to my fiance's proposal. I have just decided this is a man I can give my heart to but now am starting to wonder if he is an alcoholic. Since he started drinking at age 20, I have heard he is known for drinking. He also told me he used to drink 5-6 beers every night when he was with his ex. I just thought he was really unhappy.
The entire year we have dated he never got really drunk in front of me unless we both went to a party and drank a lot (probably only 2-3 times in that year). I never seen him silly/dangerous drunk ever. He only had 1-3 when we go out...and drank as much as I did at our friends (where we would spend the night). He would tell me about nights where he drank way too much (while dating) but I never witnessed it until lately. I figured it was what I consider "too much." For him, I learned it means puking, inability to talk and walk, and pooing out rank alcohol. He has never wanted me to see him like that but I demanded to pick him up.
Why does he not do it in front of me? It sucks because I am reading these forums about detachment...and I am only realizing this right after I am about to ultimately attach to him. I feel like he has betrayed me by keeping it a secret. Yet it is my fault too because I was being so laidback and not listening when he was trying to tell me he has a problem. One thing was that I didn't want to have to stop drinking in order to help him (selfish I know). Now, I realize how bad it is. Also, it is making me bad. I am cleaning up his mess and embarrassing moments, etc. He is so stupid. He worries about me driving home after going out, but he is in the same situation. He acts like he doesn't get emotional or that he is in control when driving home drunk (putting others at danger too). He is even starting to lash out at me now. I don't want this to turn into a Lifetime movie. Now that I am not laidback... I am afraid I am going to be the "bad guy." I dunno. Maybe detachment isn't so bad when he is becoming this monster. It sucks because we are already set up to move in together.
I know he is at least open to change but at the same time when he stopped drinking for 3-4 days he started making excuses as to why he drinks. He says he is self-medicating for ADHD. It was my fault because I was the one who ok-ed he try some of the drink I was having. Later that day we drank at a grad party (which he did well at). We decided maybe he can only drink through me (get drinks from me only) . He never drinks too much in front of me. However, just last night, while I was at work, he was getting drunk at our friend's house. This caused me to stay up but he was already almost home drunk driving. I got off the phone so he could focus the last few miles home...but then i call when he should be home - no answer. I stay up and now missed classes. I work full-time and school full-time. I was so tired but stayed up with worry. It turned out he left his phone in the car.
Another thing, when I was in middle school, I drank every single day and I was very depressed. I drank whiskey at night until i blacked out or cried my drunk self to sleep. My HP changed my life and took me away from that. I know God will help but I also feel I need help with how to treat this from people who have been there. I dont want to rationalize it...or be too forceful. As for me, I never drank again (thought i never would ever) until my 3rd year in college. Whenver single, I always kept it to one beer or two drinks (esp going out since I had to watch out for myself). When with a boyfriend, I drank more and always reminded myself to keep in check. I dont want to lose the feeling of feeling fine while sober. I love that feeling...and I dont want to be dependent on alcohol to feel good. To this day I know I am at risk for this...and I also still can drink loads and loads. At this point tho, I am getting angry at alcohol. IT isn't fun now. I am starting to think if I should never drink again. If I leave my fiance tho, I would want to be able to have a drink or two with my (Responsible) girlfriends.
Ali, Welcome to the board. In Al-Anon we seldom give advice, just our experience, strength and hope.
I won't tell you what to do but alcoholism is a family disease and it is genetic. All too often we tell ourselves "Oh, that won't happen in my family, I'm not going to let it". Yea well that one didn't work out too well for me either. The disease of alcoholism doesn't care how in control any of us are, it can strike anyone at anytime.
I used to sugar coat things when talking to people, I don't do that anymore I pretty much just tell it like it is.
My suggestions for you are this....in no particular order 1. You are only responsible for yourself, nobody else. If your fiance drinks too much that is his choice just as it is your choice to drink too much.
2. Get yourself to an AA meeting, find a sponsor and work the steps. If you had a problem with alcohol once you will most likely have a problem with it again.
3. Once you find out for sure where you are at with this disease then you and your higher power will be able to decide when it is time for you to make a union with someone else that drinks too much.
When we fly on an airplane the stewardess gives instructions before the plane takes off or shortly afterwards. One of the things she says is "If the oxygen masks drop, put it on yourself first and make sure you are breathing ok, then help the person next to you."
Bottom line....we can't be of service to anyone else if we are not ok ourselves.
__________________
Everything I have ever let go of has claw marks all over it.
Hi and Welcome, I'm thinkin you see these red flags flying up all over the place, and thank HP you do!! Alanon will give you the tools you need to help you make an informed decision. Know that Alcoholism is progressive and it only gets worse, the more it raises it's ugly head. My guess is you are just scratching the surface of what is to be revealed. The reason he hasn't shared this stuff before is (a) he's in total denial or (b) he is hiding it from you. There's no need for an intelligent adult to think they are treating ADHD with alcohol when there are specific medications that help. I call BS on that one.
None of us know why A's do what they do but for sure there are patterns on both sides. You have mentioned much of what is typical. On our part it.. is the covering up for them, feeling bad about ourselves for doing it, trying to give their actions a logical excuse (our denial), and that things will get better, that we can change them or help/stop them. Eventually we are so frustrated and insane from obsessing over them that our whole lives revolve around them and their drinking..checking for bottles and how many, driving by the bar to see if they are there, asking their friends how much they drank, monitoring them, attempting to control it, confronting them over and over with no result. We don't even see ourselves going there. That's just where we find ourselves one day when we look around and have know idea who we are or exactly when we got so lost. Sounds like hell doesn't it? It is. No one here will tell you to stay or go. I would however strongly suggest you put your plans on hold until you have attended some Alanon meetings to see what you are dealing with. The more you learn, the easier your decision will be.
Some people manage to live with it and still be happy. It's a lot of work to get there... and to be honest, it takes giving up "the dream" of what you think your future life will be. That's harder then it sounds.
Keep coming back, Christy
__________________
If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Being the bad guy for you is a one-time thing. OTOH, if you decide to let him be the bad guy, that could go on for years -- or a lifetime.
I have recently been in the position of asking someone who is not an alcoholic to marry an alcoholic. That alcoholic is me. I have been sober for a while, but I have done my best to disclose my past, she has been to Alanon meetings (and she does have active alcoholics in her family), and has been to a number of open AA meetings with me. We have been together more than 2 years and I'm confident she knows what she is getting into. She has seen me at my best and worst, although the worst is "only" my sober worst... LOL!
So, as an alcoholic I feel it is my duty to be 100% truthful about the disease, and MY disease. Rigorous honesty to me does not mean disclosing every dirty little bit, but it means disclosing motives, not making excuses, and for me - giving my Higher Power the credit for my recovery, over that of my own brilliance which kept me drunk for a lot of years.
If I were to drink in the future (and 20 years is no guarantee that I won't) I hope my future wife will have the grounding in Alanon to do what is best for HER. If the situation were reversed, I'd dump me in a heartbeat if there was a relapse. But that is not my incentive to stay sober - merely one of many likely consequences if I don't.
Welcome to the board!! My experience is all hindsight. I learned it after I did what you are doing at the moment. When I was dating the alcoholic I had the thought that she drank too much, got drunk too often and that it caused us too much trouble. I had information on her drinking and her drinking past and then had this irrational thought that if I married her it would all change or that it would change because of me or that I could fix her. Those are all irrational thinking patterns. I didn't have a clue about alcoholism as a disease or as anything so I said "let's get married then" without finding out how really huge the problem is. When a person tells me about their drinking past today...it is an issue as if they had a life threatening disease which it is. It is going to without doubt affect "our" entire life and if the information I get confirms that I will have real doubts.
In hindsight a previous program sponsor gave me and taught me a slogan that is so easily understandable and rational that I found out the reason I didn't originally follow thru on it was that over the period of time we were together I had started to commit myself and make commitment behaviors. I was afraid of looking bad and disappointing everyone after painting a good picture of what was going on...and now I was filled with doubt. The slogan? "When in doubt...don't!!" If I had any doubt about what I was about to decide to do...don't do it!! Get more information and set up responses and solutions (real ones) to what might be a future problem.
I would encourage you to find out as much about the disease of alcoholism as you can. Don't follow thru on the plans until you know. You can get the information from Al-Anon meetings and literature and from AA open meetings and literature. I also included college courses and recovery program meetings and medical information from the AMA and from other places. Knowing what I know today and after much time in both Al-Anon and AA (I am also alcoholic) I would not attempt a daily instense relationship with a practicing alcoholic.
Learning about myself revealed that some major areas of doubt included my compulsion to be in relationships with addictive personalities such as alcoholics and addicts. I wasn't even making that a qualification of my relationships so it was subconscious until I woke up to why I did what I did.
Alcoholism, if that is what it is that he and you are suffering from, is the most cunning, powerful and baffling disease in the world as told by many alcoholics themselves and their family members. It is a compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body and can never be cured but only arrest by total abstinence. It is a progressive disease and if there are periods without drinking and then a return to drinking (relapse) often it is worse than before. The alcoholic cannot control their drinking and it said that therefore they are not responsible for how the disease runs. Upon learning they have the disease they are responsible for arresting it. The alcoholic has but three choice, sobriety, insanity or death. This is but part of the AMA definition of alcoholism and it is paraphased. Let me at the family part. The spouses, family, friends and associates of the alcoholic are affected in much the same way and worse as they do not have the anesthesia of alcohol to block out reality. There for they experience the problems wideawake. They too have no control over the alcoholic or the disease and have much the same three consequences Serenity, Insanity, or Death.
I have witnessed most of the serenity if not all in the fellowship of the Al-Anon Program where those affected help and support others affected. I have witness the insanity and the death also in the non drinking family.
When in doubt, "Don't".
(((((hugs)))))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Thursday 2nd of July 2009 02:39:28 PM
I see RED FLAGS........I see if I were in this situation, WAITING and getting w/my sponsor, steps, working my program..............this action/behaviour is progressive..........it can ONLY get worse w/out active recovery work and LIFETIME recovery work.........I have no intentions of "buying" pain and misery......there is enough out there to get me w/out my looking for it..........If I were you I would work w/my sponsor and the steps and meetings BIG time.....find out WHY i need these "fixer uppers" in my life.....why i would consider a life threatening (his and mine) relationship......
Thanks to everyone for the responses. I just got home from an 11-hr shift and now doing homework for school in the morning. School and work is actually making it really hard to get to an Al-Anon meeting. I was pass-out tired when I got home but I tried calling my fiance and no answer. Yes, he was drunk and drove home drunk. He said his phone was on too low and couldn't hear my call. He is never like that when sober (two different people: Dr. Sober and Mr. Drunk). To be honest, the main reason I find myself on these forums and sites is when I am up worried about our relationship. I go past being exhausted, unable to sleep because I keep going back and forth between "everything's alright" to "something's very wrong."
My fiance actually didn't drink for a few days and wasn't going to last night. He said I could since I don't overdo it. The hostess of the party wanted me to drink but I told her why I was reluctant (I wanted to support my fiance). I dismissed her trying to get me to drink...but she knows my fiance and what he gets like when drunk...and that he was trying not to drink but still kept offering him drinks. I ended up feeling bad and saying it was fine. He only had three. Everything was fine last night...but now tonight I find out he drives home drunk and basically drinks from 5pm til now.
My problem is I don't know how to treat it. Was I ever an alcoholic? Maybe just a depressed teenager who drank a lot? I never have since abused alcohol that way. I stopped for 5 years then I drank every so often for 4 years...and that is where I am today. Whenever I feel I am drinking too frequently I put myself in check. My fiance could influence me to fall into a pit with drinking..but after getting over issues with a previous exbf over domestic violence, etc.... i am already in my mind accidentally calling my fiance my ex...instead of my fiance. I made a vow to myself not to let the love for another person destroy the love for myself. It is so hard tho because he is prince charming and then a rotting, pissy frog.
Life's hard. My fiance even told me tonight there are so many people who are a hundred times better for me. I know I can't tolerate the crap that comes with what I am learning is a disease for some. However, I know that is not who he is either. Or maybe I'm delusional.
I could have really used that phrase last night. I was definitely in doubt...and I would have definitely not. We might actually be in some medium of ground of struggle for the better had we not. Instead it is extremes of good and bad...and is a lot harder to take.
I know people don't give advice, but I do have a question. From experience, have you found as a family member of an alcoholic that abstaining from drinking is helpful? I would think so. I feel like I am being selfish to continue to drink. Additionally, some people want me to drink.
I know people don't give advice, but I do have a question. From experience, have you found as a family member of an alcoholic that abstaining from drinking is helpful? I would think so. I feel like I am being selfish to continue to drink. Additionally, some people want me to drink.
All's fair in love and war and sobriety. IMO it's not cheating to avoid alcohol or places where alcohol is served, or friends/family members who drink. It's survival. If that is what it takes, so be it. True that it can not be avoided forever, but in early sobriety when it CAN be avoided, it's one less thing to deal with. Early sobriety is very much about survival. Usually artificial restrictions to prevent a person from drinking (hospital, jail, etc) last only as long as the restrictions - but - for many, it becomes a toe-hold on sobriety. If I had an alcoholic in the family who was clinging to the flimsy reed of sobriety, I wouldn't want to test it or him -- that flimsy reed may become the loving and powerful Hand of God. But until it does, I wouldn't want to be the one who clipped it. While we really don't have the power to make a person drink (or not), we can at least be supportive by not adding to the temptation. Early sobriety often requires a wide berth - not everyone can give it.
Jerry F. has spoken to you as honestly and succinctly as anyone could. I can add nothing to his wise assessment. So I shall simply repeat his quote; "When in doubt, don't."
I wish you well. Diva
__________________
"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Well you aren't married yet. I don't doubt that al anon can help you tremendously. The more you can adapt the tools and work on them the better your life will be. I can't say it will happen overnight but there is certainly great proof on this site that life gets better no matter what the alcoholic does if you can work on yourself and not be totally swayed and consumed by what they are doing.
