The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
hi everone, I am so grateful I found this place. Some of ya'll have probably read my other post, I wrote that when I first came to the board. I was angry, angry , angry. Since then, and it's only been a day or so, I have started applying step 1 to my life. It does make me feel better to know that I have not caused this, I keep repeating the three c's in my head. I also know that I have to hand this over to God, and trust in Him to guide me and to work through me in order for my husband to see that it's HIS problem. Soooo, with that said, I still have a few questions that I am unsure how to go about with. I've listed them below, and thank you in advance for your responses!
I'm trying to figure out how to ask this first question-............ ok, well... I know that lovingly I have to make him see that it is a problem that he has, I can't directly tell him he has a problem. I just feel like with applying some of the steps, it sort of sounds like I'll just be letting him do whatever he wants, and he'll never change. Does that make sense? My husband comes home from work and starts drinking, he isn't a morning drinker, only when he gets home from work until he goes to bed. He doesn't drink and drive- ever. He gets up and still goes to work, in fact on 4 out 7 mornings, he gets up earlier to go run around 6 miles. He drinks around 12 beers a night. Here's the problem I am having with my own mind- I am struggling with either it's a bad enough problem for me to work the steps. Honestly, it's not the beer that I am upset about( other than the fact his health will go if he continues on this path), but it's more of the selfishness, lack of drive or motivation and broken promises on things to better our lives. So, you see- I am not sure how I can do anything to help. I, to be honest, get along better with him when he is drinking- he mellows out and is alot more pleasant to be around. When he's not drinking, his patience is so thin, etc.
I did make a good step the other night, he mentioned a new house for us to move into, ( heard that one before), now I feel it's just the alcohol talking, because he never talks to me about when he's not drinking, he doesn't even want to talk about it. So, when he mentioned it, I just said- when you are serious about it, then you can talk to me about it, but until then I don't want to hear about a new house. But, other than things like that, I don't know how to handle my situation. When he gets home from work, do I just watdch him drink and drink and not say anything at all about it? Because here's the deal with that- I feel as though with me doing so, he won't have any reason to try and quit.
I do have to say though, that for the past couple of days, I have been more distant from him- not laughing at his jokes so much, not starting conversations, just basically going about my own business , doing what I feel like doing without talking with him first, just putting me and kids before him. By doing that I did notice changes in him last night- he stayed around me more, and offered to get things for me for the baby- diapers, bottle, etc. He even played with her more than normal. He was just around more.
And then this morning I heard him up and he was in the kitchen, and I heard a trash sack being picked up that had beer bottles in it. When I got up I noticed the kitchen trash had not been touched. So, at that point I knew he was hiding the bottles in another sack. I looked outside and no where was the sack with the bottles, so I have no idea where he put it. I came back in, and told him I thought he took the trash out, and all he said was no. So, at least he knew that I knew what he did.
Just a little confused on what I need to do, I have read the 12 steps, and besides just going and doing what I want to do and not including him I am confused. He's home in the evening, in fact we all are- our 3 girls and us. It's hard as you all know, to go and get out of the house with 3 young kids esp. in the eveving. I feel as though it would be so much easier to do my own thing if it was just me and him. How do I apply these rules in my case? really confused.
I see a lot going on in ur post. First off - u sd u were distant & he tried more & was there more. That is practically instantanously - u can see a change in his behavior. You dont want to ignore him but u do want to detach with love, it takes time to figure that out.
No, I certainly wouldnt "sit there & watch him drink" - besides u have kids to tend to and your onw life. Go get into a hobby or project or meditate, pray, read material that is inspiring, whatever... but dont wait for him... get on with your life.
"I just feel like with applying some of the steps, it sort of sounds like I'll just be letting him do whatever he wants, and he'll never change. Does that make sense?" -beacheemom
Okay, with this - the truth is he is going to do whatever he wants anyway - ur nagging is NOT making him drink less. The reason we say detach form his behavior & look at you is b/c if ur fighting with him about his disease - he can simply be mad at you and not look at his disease. If u say nothing - he will be alone with thoughts and have to face it squarely - or at least have an opportunity to do so. As long as u fight, it will be a distraction & he'll just be looking to blame you for his problem.
Get into your own thing... get to meetings, get a CAL book like one day at a time or courage to change or how alanon works and work those steps. Set boundaries to protect yourself and give yourself another choice in these situations. Like, if u drink, Ill go out with the kids or whatever it is u decide. Do some craft projects with them or take dinner in the yard & make a picnic - anything.
There is a great pamphlet on Detachment - ask for it at your next face to face meeting. Keep coming, listening, learning & sharing. We're here for you. The chat room has 2 daily meetings too & lots of support in there where others understand what ur going through.
As long as u sit around & look at him, wait for him, you wont be living. Get busy with your life, focus on you - it is all u can control or change anyway & I guarantee you will appreciate yourself more when u do... promise.
__________________
Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
your post made me smile , beer bottles moved to another bag , husb did the same thing hehe , not only are they hiding it from us they are hiding it from themselves out of site out of mind ? As to letting him drink with no interference , has your sugestion that he is drinking too much made a difference ? probably not and it usually causes a fight exactly what this disease wants , fight and the disease wins , he now has a reason to drink Your a nag . and on an on it goes . There is nothing u can do about his drinking , watching won't help , counting beer bottles won't help you mentioned u had a baby , your time is far more productive spending time with baby than worrying about how much he is drinking , Do I just sit here and watch him drink ? absolutley not bundle up baby go see old friends go to the mall and enjoy . I have read the twelve steps , well read them again and work them for yourself , I assume your not going to meetings f2f please find a meeting u need support from people who understand and know exactly how u feel , this board is awsome and chat is great but nothing takes the place of a f2f meeting your missing so much by jst comming here . Detaching with love hard place to get to I know and I didnt understand it myself for along time someone exlained it to me this way . If my husb passes out on the lawn , leave him there ,instead of dragging him in the house ,but before u go to bed turn off the automatic sprinkler . Let him explain to the neighbours why he slept on the lawn , and by turning off the sprinkler , your detaching with love . Let him explain to the neighbours why he is sleeping on the lawn . making excuses for his behavior is not your job . Until we stop enabling absolutley nothing will change , Nothing changes til someone changes . Louise
I'm trying to figure out how to ask this first question-............ ok, well... I know that lovingly I have to make him see that it is a problem that he has, I can't directly tell him he has a problem. I just feel like with applying some of the steps, it sort of sounds like I'll just be letting him do whatever he wants, and he'll never change. Does that make sense?
Yes it does make sense. I don't think YOU need to make him see he has a problem really. I think you just need to work on YOU, set boundaries, stop enabling, detach with love things like that. He has to hit bottom usually to want to stop. You need to step aside in away and let him hit his bottom on his own and not rescue him or try to help him.
Honestly, it's not the beer that I am upset about( other than the fact his health will go if he continues on this path), but it's more of the selfishness, lack of drive or motivation and broken promises on things to better our lives. So, you see- I think the selfishness, lack of drive motivation, broken promises and what are characteristics of A's. It's part of there disease. Google alcoholism and read as much as you can. Google spider angels and there are quite a few helpful things on there to read. My favorite is Letter to my Spouse. I cried when I first read it.
I am not sure how I can do anything to help.
You can't help him. He needs to help himself, but you can help one person and that is YOU. Alcoholics act and we react. We need to stop reacting.
I, to be honest, get along better with him when he is drinking- he mellows out and is alot more pleasant to be around. When he's not drinking, his patience is so thin, etc.
This is also quite common many alcoholics act more calm, mellow and are more pleasant to be around when they have had a few beers. We are powerless over alcohol and he is also.
I don't know how to handle my situation. When he gets home from work, do I just watdch him drink and drink and not say anything at all about it? Because here's the deal with that- I feel as though with me doing so, he won't have any reason to try and quit.
You don't have to sit and watch him drink. Do things for YOU when he is home. Go to an Alanon meeting, hang out with friends, take a hot bath, cook a healthy meal, relax, read alanon literature..
Often times I have noticed when I tried to tell my A to quit or tell him he was drinking too much I think deep down he knew he was, but he just couldn't stop so when I would say these things to him it would hurt him. And when he was hurting the alcohol helped take away the pain so he would drink more. There is NOTHING you can do to make him think about quitting. He needs to do this on his own.
I do have to say though, that for the past couple of days, distant from him- not laughing at his jokes so much, not starting conversations, just basically going about my own business , doing what I feel like doing without talking with him first, just putting me and kids before him. By doing that I did notice changes in him last night- he stayed around me more, and offered to get things for me for the baby- diapers, bottle, etc. He even played with her more than normal. He was just around more.
Keep working on you and the kids!
So, at that point I knew he was hiding the bottles in another sack. I looked outside and no where was the sack with the bottles, so I have no idea where he put it. I came back in, and told him I thought he took the trash out, and all he said was no. So, at least he knew that I knew what he did.
What's the point in looking outside for beer bottles? How is this going to help YOU? You might catch him in a lie trying to hide his bottles, but really think about it what is your motive in this?
Take the kids to the park in the evening invite him. if he doesn't want to come so be it, have fun with out him. let him sit and home and get drunk by himself.
I know much of this is easier said than done, but really take it day by day and YOU will slowly start to see changes. Changes will not happen over night. Progress not perfection. I have been here 6 months and I still have tons to learn and work on, but slowly I am finding more serenity!!
Lastly, KEEP COMING BACK!! Find a sponsor and continue working the steps!!
-- Edited by Melissa21 on Wednesday 24th of June 2009 11:46:46 AM
__________________
"Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." Will Rogers
Kitty's post said it so eloquently I don't know what more to say, but I'll put in my two cents worth!
"I know that lovingly I have to make him see that it is a problem that he has, I can't directly tell him he has a problem. I just feel like with applying some of the steps, it sort of sounds like I'll just be letting him do whatever he wants, and he'll never change. Does that make sense?" beacheemom
I see an oxymoron in your statement. 'I have to MAKE him see that it is a problem that he has' and then you said 'I can't directly tell him he has a problem.' When we try to control or coerce or loved ones into 'seeing that they have a problem' that is not detaching. There is an anacryom (sp?) for DETACH:
D .... Don't E .... Even T .... Think A .... About C ... Changing H ... Him/Her
I know the concept of detachment is hard to wrap yourself around when your new in recovery. I thought to, when I first came in, that it sounded harsh and uncaring. But the truth is it's like kitty said: If u say nothing - he will be alone with thoughts and have to face it squarely - or at least have an opportunity to do so. As long as u fight, it will be a distraction & he'll just be looking to blame you for his problem. So the more you can detach with love the more you will be helping him to see his own problems.
"Honestly, it's not the beer that I am upset about( other than the fact his health will go if he continues on this path), but it's more of the selfishness, lack of drive or motivation and broken promises on things to better our lives."
Alcoholism is a cunning, baffling, and powerful disease. It only leads to insanity or death. It's progressive and it's real. You are right to be concerned about his health. The selfishness, lack of drive/motivation, broken promises are all symptoms of that disease.
But back to us. We can only change us. We can't cure, can't control, nor did we cause this disease (the 3 C's that you'll hear a lot about in this program) It is imperative that we keep the focus on us and not our alcoholic if we are to get better, and thus improve the atmosphere of the home.
"...just basically going about my own business , doing what I feel like doing without talking with him first, just putting me and kids before him. By doing that I did notice changes in him last night- he stayed around me more, and offered to get things for me for the baby- diapers, bottle, etc. He even played with her more than normal. He was just around more."
This is detachment with love and you already saw the reward that it brings. It pulled him in to be more attentive to your needs and the babies.
"And then this morning I heard him up and he was in the kitchen, and I heard a trash sack being picked up that had beer bottles in it. When I got up I noticed the kitchen trash had not been touched. So, at that point I knew he was hiding the bottles in another sack. I looked outside and no where was the sack with the bottles, so I have no idea where he put it. I came back in, and told him I thought he took the trash out, and all he said was no. So, at least he knew that I knew what he did."
This is NOT detachment, this is obsessing over the alcoholic, and I've done it plenty. That along with checking the level of alcohol on the whiskey bottle (my alcoholics drink of choice), pouring good alcohol down the sink, and other similarly pointles endeavors.
"The alcohol was not the problem," I've heard alcoholics in recovery say. "It was the solution." It is their solution (albeit fruitless) to the pain, suffering, and inconsistency they feel in their lives. They don't know how to deal with life on lifes terms so they drink. When we enable them or chastize them for their drinking it only makes it worse and it takes the focus off them and puts it right back on you (where you don't want it to be).
So take care of yourself, get yourself to a f2f meeting if possible, if not come in here and share in chat or come to one of the two meetings we have daily. You will find that it will help and that you will start to grow in the program and that life can get better for YOU! And your family.
Take what you like and leave the rest. Yours in Recovery, Overcome
__________________
I can Overcome all things through my HP who strengthens me.
Alcoholism has touched an effected everyone on this board and in the rooms of Al-Anon in different ways. Your story is different and yet the same as mine and many others. It takes time to finally reach the point that we seek help, that our lives have become unmanageable, and we are powerless over this disease. You have reached that point. "Acceptance" of those facts are altogether different from admitting it. We still wanted to fix the problem. We have to realize that a problem that had been getting worse for years is not going to correct itself overnight as much I as wish, even with the help of Al-Anon.
"Acceptance" is so important.
There is not a magic pill. But we can get better one day at a time. It takes time working the program, taking care of us, going to as many f2f meetings as possible, absorbing as much as we can from other members ESH, reading all the material we can on the subject. Why? Because this is a cunning, baffling, powerful disease that will mow down everything in it's path. I understand where you are, I've been where you are. The disease make us crazy, it scrambles our mind. But, there is hope, and it can be found in the rooms of Al-Anon. You can find the serenity, hope, guidance, love, and understanding that you so desperately need in your life from people who are walking or have walked in your shoes. Try it, get to as many meeting as you can, as soon as you can, and I promise you will never regret it.
HUGS, RLC
-- Edited by RLC on Wednesday 24th of June 2009 02:24:31 PM
thank u all for our kind words, I really do mean that. I am going to start working on ME- so I can be better for ME, and for my beautiful daughters. They deserve the real me, and I don't think they have ever seen the real me- the fun side of me, the one that doesn't seemed stressed all the time or worried. Don't get me wrong, they've seen me have fun, but they have never had me being me 100%. And it's time. Belive me, your words I will reread over and over each and every one. I will try to find a meeting close by, and I will take the kids to my moms when I can. I really don't have any outside help, besides her and she is in bad health. Does ya'lls husbands know that yall go to meetings? Is that somehting that you don't hide? As for chat, my computer won't allow me to do it because of something that says it's not able to do it. I don't really understand computers much!!!! I will ask around what it means and hopefully be able to get into a chat. I will keep you all posted. thanks soooooooo very much (((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))) to each of you.
I think you need to have Java installed to get into chat. Im not sure about all that stuff though when i click to go in it it just tells me to accept or decline and I accept.
All the A's around me know I go to Alanon. My son's father told me that Im losing my mind for going to Alanon and I just tell him, no I've lost my mind and that is why I am going to Alanon.
I mentioned it to my A brothers girlfriend and my brother told her no don't go there. Alanon makes you hate alcoholics and I just simply said, no you got it all wrong that is not what it does.
I think some A's don't care and others will care. I know one of the first things I did was quit enabling and my son's father didn't like it one bit, but it's what is best for me.
__________________
"Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." Will Rogers
I don't know that I ever suceeded in making the ex A see anything. I certainly went at it for 7 years. I think the change for me actually came when I stopped trying to fix or change him and worked on fixing and changing me.
