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My ex AH has been living in an oxford house since getting out of prison in March. We have been communicating well, he was paying support, working, seeing the kids every weekend, etc. He moved out of the house last week. I'm not sure of the real reason why - claimed it was because he wants to see his kids more but hasn't seen them since moving. No support this month. Lost his job last month. He's always answered the phone when I call, replies to texts quickly and the past week or so has not been like that. So I was beginning to get the feeling that he's probably using again. Last night I get a text saying he's been really sick and in bed. To me this means I have been getting high and am going through withdrawls. Heard the whole sick line before, honestly I'm sick of sickness and have little empathy left for anyone who is sick anymore, even the kids. I think I dealt with it so many times with him that I have no empathy for sickness anymore because it was always really the dope and I got so invested in taking care of the poor sick baby that I used up all that I had to give in regard to sickness. I'm jaded I guess. I'm trying not to jump to conclusions and I have been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt as he inevitably always hangs himself with the rope when he does start using. I am just not sure what I should do about the kids visiting now that I have these questions. His last few messages were wanting to know when he could see them again. How can I make decisions about what's safe for them when I don't really know what he's doing?
buy yourself some time by suggesting that he get well before seeing the kids, its suspicious to me that he wants to see them if he is sick (genuinely), in any case he needs to be in a good condition before he sees them, whether he is using or not, just my opinion
Perhaps you can see him first and see if he is really sick vs. using sick. If he's using then you know what you can do or want to do. Just a thought. Here's hoping he's really sick from something other than using. Love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
I really don't think I can tell, it all looks the same to me. Seems odd that he just moved out of a C/S house and now suddenly he's sick and not answering calls/texts. I'm not taking them there til next weekend at the earliest so I guess we'll see if this sickness is a regularly occuring thing or not.
Before I do anything "major", I call one of my co-sponsors.....work steps and get into meets and share my story....get esh and of course the sponsor...
i cannot live w/out my steps....co-sponsors-----literature (particularly the 12 steps).....
I used to go to meetings, have a sponsor, work the steps, etc. Then I moved and there is one meeting a week at a time I can't go. Now, no meetings, no sponsor, I know the steps...
I'm not really sure what working the steps has to do with questioning if someone is using and if I should have my children around them?
yea, me too and b/c I work the program, I am WAY healthier in my choices re: everyting....I can make decisions based on healthy bounaries and healthy "what is best for me and my children".....I keep the focus on ME...whether or not someone ELSE is using or whatever is not my business...if it impacts me, then I put some distance so it does NOT impact me or any little kids i may have around.......Robin said it here ...."we are here to work the program"....be it al-anon or whatever 12 steps program.....I work it for ME...about ME....to fix ME....to enrich MY life...so I can turn and SHARE that wiht others......
I wasn't sure about working a program had to do with my alcoholic/addict wife's drinking and using also. After all everything messed up in my life was because of her right? Eventually I slipped on the question "What was/is your part in it?" and I didn't know I played a part in this "family disease". I found it wasn't about her all the time that I played the biggest part in how the disease affected me and how I reacted to it.
Those who don't get it would be helped by "coming to understand". Coming to the rooms and learning to work the program we come to understand.
I get that it's about me and about the kids, I just don't know where to draw the line and if I'm being fair or not. I may just be making a judgment about him that is based on past experiences and not on his current state. OR he could be using again. I want to be fair and let him see the kids if he's not but I don't want them to be around it if he is. I still don't see how the steps can help me answer this question. I don't want to assume he's using if he's not but on the other hand I don't want to assume he isn't if he is. It's not fair to my kids, they want to see their dad and I don't know if I'm making a good decision for them because I don't have enough information at this point. My thinking is it will all come out in the wash but on the other hand I'd never forgive myself if something happened to them because he was using and I didn't know it.
Thanks, I don't think I have ever felt alienated on this board until right now. I am not here to be judged about how I choose to see the working of a program, I'm just here for some ESH from people who have been here before and may have some insight to offer me. If you feel the need to be harsh and judgmental then it's probably best that you don't reply. I don't think a robotic get to a meeting... work the program... response is always in order. How I choose to work a program is my business and I'll put your comments in the leave the rest category. Thank you.
-- Edited by carolinagirl on Monday 15th of June 2009 03:42:31 PM
-- Edited by carolinagirl on Monday 15th of June 2009 03:54:27 PM
Thanks, I don't think I have ever felt alienated on this board until right now. I am not here to be judged about how I choose to see the working of a program, I'm just here for some ESH from people who have been here before and may have some insight to offer me. If you feel the need to be harsh and judgmental then it's probably best that you don't reply. I don't think a robotic get to a meeting... work the program... response is always in order. How I choose to work a program is my business and I'll put your comments in the leave the rest category. Thank you.
-- Edited by carolinagirl on Monday 15th of June 2009 03:42:31 PM
-- Edited by carolinagirl on Monday 15th of June 2009 03:54:27 PM
Well I was going to say that I am in the middle of step FOUR and I found out last NIGHT a BIG thing re: some of my responses to life/people/things, et al...
To me??? the steps are the most important part of the program this step is helping me understand the forces and people and events that caused me to "grow" the negative patterns that I did AND , knowing the "enemy" (patterns) is to defeat it....
Just my take, please use what works and dump the rest...
When I first started alanon in 1994, I talked about everyone else and what they did, worked everyone else's inventory, wanted them all the change, the f2f meetings I went to,,, they smiled and said... keep coming back.... what step does that relate to..... maybe you need more meetings..... boy did that make me mad, why wouldn't everyone else change, why should I change?? well the pain got bad enough, I got a sponsor, I worked the steps, I went to meeting after meeting after meeting, I got better......
I wasn't sure about working a program had to do with my alcoholic/addict wife's drinking and using also. After all everything messed up in my life was because of her right? Eventually I slipped on the question "What was/is your part in it?" and I didn't know I played a part in this "family disease". I found it wasn't about her all the time that I played the biggest part in how the disease affected me and how I reacted to it.
Those who don't get it would be helped by "coming to understand". Coming to the rooms and learning to work the program we come to understand.
When I first started alanon in 1994, I talked about everyone else and what they did, worked everyone else's inventory, wanted them all the change, the f2f meetings I went to,,, they smiled and said... keep coming back.... what step does that relate to..... maybe you need more meetings..... boy did that make me mad, why wouldn't everyone else change, why should I change?? well the pain got bad enough, I got a sponsor, I worked the steps, I went to meeting after meeting after meeting, I got better......
Oh I got the same THING....and they would do the same thing., like keep coming back...what step are you working?? and yea, the meets and stuff...I felt like "they don't care", but THEY were the ones AT PEACE....I WAS NOT!!!! I wanted what they had and yea, the pain got bad enough for me to "borrow" their procedures and now I GOT what they GOT...I see HOPE...I am taking care of ME....I am meeting MY needs first and LOVINGLY sharing that now with **SAFE*** others....All b/c the other "programmies" just gently yet firmly brought up the same thing you experienced.......i got sick of the pain...i was willing to do whatever it took to be FRE of it.......
-- Edited by rosielightshines on Monday 15th of June 2009 05:13:41 PM
I wasn't sure about working a program had to do with my alcoholic/addict wife's drinking and using also. After all everything messed up in my life was because of her right? Eventually I slipped on the question "What was/is your part in it?" and I didn't know I played a part in this "family disease". I found it wasn't about her all the time that I played the biggest part in how the disease affected me and how I reacted to it.
Those who don't get it would be helped by "coming to understand". Coming to the rooms and learning to work the program we come to understand.
When I first started alanon in 1994, I talked about everyone else and what they did, worked everyone else's inventory, wanted them all the change, the f2f meetings I went to,,, they smiled and said... keep coming back.... what step does that relate to..... maybe you need more meetings..... boy did that make me mad, why wouldn't everyone else change, why should I change?? well the pain got bad enough, I got a sponsor, I worked the steps, I went to meeting after meeting after meeting, I got better......
Also, I noticed that these "suggestors" weren't going round and round with the same ole "war stories" like I was....I was crying and moaning, trying to change this one., or that event or this guy or that cousin, sister, etc.....and the HEALTHY ones, whom I envied would throw the program at me.......I stopped and took a look at me and saw MY part in MY misery.....I was NOT focusing on me and the steps.....I wanted to cry adn moan and get sympathy, but not WORK....Not confront ME and these patterns that I had that kept me in the SAME dark hole....focusing on another or an event or a thing over which i had NO control....My part was USUALLY not taking responsibility for ME and MY character...it was usually directed outside of me....thus the rounds and rounds and rounds of the SAME ole misery......those old "worker bees" who threw the steps, meets and sponsor work at me changed my life....I wanted what they had.....I got sick of the pain and went to WORK on ME...and now I share it w/others who want to help themselves......
Its like the program respects our boundaries...It will NOT force itself upon us....WE gotta REACH for it....CLAIM it....WORK it....OR, stay in the same ole same ole and run people off b/c they are tired of hearing about my same ole problems with NO solution offered up.....
yea, I look at the problem...work the steps to ascertain what MY part was/is and WORK it...so yea, I can arrive at the solution...i am , now, almost habitized to FEEL the feelings, then get out from under the "weeping tree" and say "OK...what can I DO to take care of ME/ find SOLUTION...
I hope this post made sense......I liked the way Jerry put it.....
CG, I think you have to figure your ex's RECENT past into the present. To keep your kids safe. How about having a third party supervise the next few visits. Assuming the kids still want to see him.
There is NO reason you should BELIEVE he is sober. None. Your experience with him is that he is a drug addict who is inconsistent. What has changed?
Trust yourself, your instincts. Do not retreat into denile just because it is "easier".
Oh and another P.S. It sounds to me like you are WORKING step one...admitting you are powerless over your ex, and figuring out what footwork you NEED to do so that your life will NOT become unmanagable.
ya know, there's always the good ole plan that says when you don't know what to do, do nothing. This is a hard one and I understand what you're saying. Please don't feel alienated. This is your place too and I'm not quite sure what's going on but like you said: Take what you like and leave the rest (if you find anything you like)..lol!.
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Oh my goodness, CG, I completely understand your attitude in regards to being jaded to illness. I could not believe how often my ah had the "flu", and it eventually became a point of contention with us because I was no longer sympathetic. Once I knew he was an alcoholic/addict and saw a pattern of relative health when he began recovery, the return of the weekly flu was a dead giveaway of relapse.
Alas, that does not answer your question, but I just wanted to let you know that I understand that gut feeling of "knowing", but not wanting to believe. My guess is that it may not take too long to figure it out because if he is relapsing he will probably go down fast and pull away, he'll feel too lousy to spend time with the kids and it will be apparent to you.
In the meantime, can you do something relatively safe, like take you kids to meet him at a bowling alley, a movie, or pizza? You have every reason to be suspicious. It is up to him to provide the burden of proof. If he is really sick he will get better. Bummer you can't just ask him, huh? Yeah, right....
Blessings,
Lou
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Every new day begins with new possibilities. It's up to us to fill it with the things that move us toward progress and peace. ~ Ronald Reagan~
Sometimes what you want to do has to fail, so you won't ~Marguerite Bro~
Thanks Christy and Lou... I think that's probably the best solution is to do nothing. The kids DO want to see him because they have been seeing him regularly for the past month or two almost every weekend but you're definitely right that if history repeats itself - and we know it does - he will spiral down quickly if he's using. Thanks for reminding me of that. FYI... I'm not in misery, I'm very happy with my life now, I'm not trying to "change" anyone, just trying to figure out how I should deal with my own stuff. As for my working a program having anything to do with EX AH using, I know it has absolutely nothing to do with it because he does what he does and I do what I do. I don't blame other people for my issues, I'm just looking for others' experience to see if I can get some good ideas or in this case reminders of things I already knew.
I just wanted to put my two cents in that if your ex AH makes the choice to go back on drugs he is the one that is affecting his relationship with the kids not you. You're just the bystander who is willing to see reality.
CG, you are doing the best you can, I think that is completely obvious and needs no rationalizations/explanations. Hang in there, keep coming back, one day at a time, progress, not perfection, etc. You are OK (IMO)! Not that you need my approval (or anyone elses, LOL), just my two cents, you are keeping an open mind and looking for support and thats terrific. hugs, J.
