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hey all...i'm new here, just stumbled across this site today after an annoying weekend. hope it's all right that i just jump right in with my problems...
i could go on and on about all of the alcohol abuse in my family..but i'll try to sum it up. since July of 2008, I have had both my mother-in-law and my uncle die of liver failure as a direct result from alcohol. my MIL was 58 and my uncle was 60. I got married in May of 2008 so needless-to-say this first year of marriage has not been your average first year. My husband and I have had a rough year. Unfortunately, before the death of his mom, he nor I never made it to an al anon meeting so this is all kind-of new to me.
The reason I am here is because my father is either an alocholic or an alcohol abuser. The reason I say this is because I'm not sure if his body is actually dependent on it or not. I tend to think it probably is, my mom on the other hand disagrees. His father was an alcoholic as is his sister and his brother was. (His brother died of cancer, but I think the alcohol played a part in hindering his cancer treatments). Before his brothers death, my dad drank whisky or scotch every single night. After his brother's death he switched completly to wine.
Now, my mom says he drinks about 2 boxes of a wine a week. She seems to think it's because he wants to and not because he needs to. She admits it's way more than he should, but because he hasn't had the "hard stuff" in about 8 years now she deals with it since it's a lot better than it used to be. I know it's too much. Whether or not his body is dependent on it or not, I'm not sure. He doesn't drink in the morning, but he does drink every single day. He starts usually around 5 pm during the week. On weeknds it's more like 1 or 2 in the afternoon, unless he has plans. Part of it, I think, is that he's bored so it passes time and makes him relax.
Anyway, for me, I have a hard time understanding how he can drink so much when so many people in his life have either been affected by alcoholism or have died.
I don't think his drinking is to the point where he needs an intervention....but I do want to talk to him. My husband and I are moving out of the state in one month, and I want to talk to him before I go, tell him that I'm worried about him. I want him to be alive to see his grandkids. (he has none as of yet) How do I approach him in such a way that he will listen to me and take me seriously without being offended or pissed off?
He's a very very reserved person who doesn't talk about his feelings much, so I have a feeling I won't be able to get much out of him. I've only ever mentioned my thoughts to him once before and I think it was when other people were around and it was a heated situation. My mom, on the other hand, bugs him all the time, she's a very big nagger, about alcohol and about everything in general...so her words go in one ear an dout the other, of course. I really think if I sit down with him and talk to him, he will have a lot of respect for that, and when he hears how much he's hurting me from my own mouth, it will mean a lot to him...
My husband is nervous that I'm going to hurt my relationship with him and doesn't really want me to say anything. He sees my dad's alcoholism as not so bad becuase it's totally different than his mom's. My mother-in-law was completly dependent, and even took it into her work as a teacher. She missed our dress rehearsal to our wedding because she was drunk, she went to jail after being in a car accident with her daughter in the car, etc....so my husband sees hers as SO extreme.....my dad doesn't ever drive after drinking, doesn't drink at inappropriate venues, etc...so my husband thinks it's best to let it be.
What is everyone's opinions? How should I talk to my dad to tell him I'm worried? What do you find to be the most successful techniques?
I look forward to your responses...I'm also thinking of getting in on the al anon chats. I'm saddened that I didn't find this site years ago when we first discovered my mother-in-laws drinking problem...
(ok i know i said i'd keep it short...guess it got kinda long..woops!)
Just my opinion, but I don't think there is anything at all wrong with having that talk with your father, on a couple of conditions....
1. Try your best not to tie it to any expectations on your part (i.e. if he doesn't listen, then he is not acting appropriately).
2. Do it from love, and caring for him (sounds like you are already there). Don't "should" him.... just keep it to how it makes you feel, how it scares/concerns you, based on all the family history, etc...
Chances are, from my experience, it won't have "immediate" benefits, but it will, in fact, "plant a seed"...
Just my two cents
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
To me, it doesn't matter what you say. Al anon is for you. And coming to al anon, for you will benefit you. Ultimately, untangling yourself from their mess will make you a happier person no matter how much someone drinks, when they drink, or whatever. I would ask myself how often in the past you've talked to your loved one about their drinking, and what your motives were. When I finally got up the courage to do it, I did it with the motive that I wanted a relationship with my father, and the drinking was standing in the way. This took a lot of work, time and energy. When I was able to see that my father was unwilling to quit, telling me it was my problem, I realized that this was how he wanted our relationship and that was that. I would recommend you get a firm backing in the steps before you elect to confront him on his drinking.
To me?? I had to get into Al-anon and find ME...the only way to love my loved ones is to love ME first...Find ME first....Establish a relatinship with ME first....I know that sounds selfish, but it is NOT....Like how can I give healthy love if I am not healthy???
That is why I cut off all boy-girl relationships for the time it took for me to come to a place where I could "hold up my end" and do it HEALTHY...
I even have better relationships with my "A" brothers....1 I had to refuse to take in after his last DUI....He ended up in a 1/2 way house and is STILL drinking, but ya know??? I am 1500 miles away from him now and all I do is lovingly tell him that if he wants to get into the 12 steps and WORK it, I would encourage him and give ESH and support....I sent him some literature....Did that with my other, more close, A brother and my narkie daughter.....NONE have taken the bait.....SO All I can do is pray for them....Be healthy in the event they want help and some healthy encouragment and take care of me.....I may be intolerent of dangerous and sick behaviour, but I am never cruel to the A....I just let them know how far they can go and then the consequences if they break my boundaries...
My A brother called me drunk on his arse.....I called him back and said "when you call drunk, I am hanging up....NO exceptions".....yea, he made amends to me, however I will NOT take his calls when he is "plastered" ...he makes stupid, triggering remarks....I don't need it....I did not be agressive with him...I was firm yet humane....I kept the focus on ME and what his behaviour did to ME....I kept using "I" statements and when I addressed his behaviour I only talked about his BEHAVIOUR......Not his character.....and how his behaviour harmed me.....
so far he is abiding by my boundaries of "no drunk phone calls".....He hasn't broken it yet and we have had some nice talks....I have NO expectations of him because he is not in recovery.....NON recovery drunks are gonna harm me in some way...So I put them in the outter circles of my life....keep my distance...Do it lovingly, but I owe it to me to take care of ME......the "inner circle" people are there because they have earned that right...They are healthy...A blessing in my life...There for me most of the time....Actions match their words.......However, they CAN be moved to the outter circles if they were to change their behaviour with me for the negative.....To feel safe, i can re-arrange my small to big circle people as needed....I love my A brothers, but they are in the outter circles.....
I used to be soo black and white....it was either small circle, close to my heart or OUT of my life....Now I have many circles around my heart.....from small (Safest) to Big (keep at a distance)....It works for me....
Active "A's" are "big circle" people....I put a "shelf life" on how long I can talk with them and/or how much I want to expect from them....NO expectations works best......
Sorry to ramble here...Just some thoughts ...please use what you can and dump the rest
First it is my experience to use the word concerned, no worried.
If I were you I would keep it real light. "Hey dad I am concerned about you." He may ask why or what makes you say that?
"Oh I just want you to be healthy and be around a long time." I would NOT mention alcohol. He already knows.
Just tell him how YOU feel.
If the alcohol is mentioned he will go on the defensive. If you just focus on health, that is ok.
Now this is my experience. We cannot have any expectations. I agree with others,do this for you, for you need to say it.
We cannot control anyone but ourselves. Hon I have done my best to not have regrets. I picture me in my rocking chair on my front porch thinking back. I want to know I did what I needed to.
I put my arm around my mother when she was so ill from breast cancer sitting in the waiting room. I told her I want to and I am going to. She says."well ok!"
lol Anyway I sure hope you keep coming. It will help you.
My love to you and your family. Your dad loves you, and he will love you for caring.
Thank you all for your responses so far. I really appreciate the support and advice. As of right now I am thinking of keeping it vey low-key. My mother is actually pretty overweight, so last night I had the idea of approaching them both. Letting them know that my husband and I are both concerned (thanks debilyn...I do like cocerned better than worried) about their health and we want them both to be around a long time...we want them to be able to enjoy their grandchildren in their lives for as long as possible. Maybe if we approach it this way, my dad won't feel like I'm targeting him. My mom knows she has an eating problem and my dad knows he has an alcohol problem...so I feel like maybe we don't even need to tell them what exactly we are referring to..because deep down they know, ya know? And this way my dad won't get defensive or feel like I'm accusing him and pointing blame...because I could just see him coming back with "well what about your mother's eating/exercise habits".
Anytime I ever tried to have a simple, light conversation with an A about what they were doing - I was met with absolute denial, defensiveness or anger. You will probably hear excuses, justifications, explanations... . If you tie your feelings to his drinking - saying, "your dinking makes me feel like this ___ " I don't think that will work at all either, in fact I think that will backfire.
A few times, the best I got was a straight, "this is how much I drink presently" with a very matter of fact stare, like what's your problem. I had a lot of problems growing up with addiction & the adults around me were often extremely irresponsible & usually broke promises or betrayed my trust; took advantage &/or expolited me. The family is very codependent - everyone is tied in & emotionally entangled with everyone else.
I do think it's important to say what needs to be said, especially to our parents. None of us knows how long we have & if something is burning inside of you, release it.
If your dad is not an addict, he may be able to express himself emotionally - he still might not appreciate where you are coming from on this. It is likely to feel like an attack, even if that is not your intention (so u might say that too) - u sd ur mom nags him all the time - this could just end up feeling like nagging to him & he wont get or understand what you are saying.
I would suggest the book, 12 Steps for Adult Children as it sounds like you & your husband are ACoA's. Reading through the feelings, helped me the most as I kept going back to guilt & couldnt figure out how to stop that process - that book clearly says how our thinking process twists it up into guilt. Learning to own my feelings for what they are & not go into that 'I'm guilty, I'm wrong sort of stuff internally".
I dont punish myself today or expect me to be perfect. I am a human being & I have an autonomous life today, from my family. Thank god for this program!
Get to meeting, learn as much as you can about the disease, share in meetings. Hope you give it a try, so much to absorb/learn here. Much luck & love to you.
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
Planting the "seed" is all that may happen, just so you know going in. The truth is, if we could love addictions away there wouldn't be any.
More times then not the person has to hit an emotional or medical bottom to "want" to stop and get help. I suggest you state only "I" statements. Letting them know your concern and saying it with love is about all you do anyway. Please keep your expectations to a minimum. If you don't see results or you hit the denial wall it certainly doesn't mean they don't love you. It means they are struggling with addiction and at present the addiction is winning.
Take care, Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
I am in agreement that your choice of sitting them both down and speaking as adults, and not pushing blame would "For ME" be the best choice... Then there is no one pointing fingers, but they can hear your "concern" and then just take it from there...
I Had an Afather as well, and just lost him to the disease 6 months ago... I was very open with him, and did not condem or try to control, but did tell him of my concerns...
Thee very last time we spoke, the subject came up, and he told me flat out...I have done my best and failed... To which I then told him, "Some times (Our) Best isn't good enough, and we need to push a little harder to make it happen"...
Because for ME... Survival is something I learned growing up with an Afather... So I did not understand his need to Give up... And I still struggle with it... BUT... Al-anon has tought me to focus on me and my recovery... And I did not find this place till AFTER I lost my father, so it has been a hard road for I can't now have those conversations with him about my recovery, and use the tools I have learned...
BUT I am Very Grateful for ALL the conversations I took the time to have with him, for it is part of my fondest memories of him... I say speak to him and listen to him, and instead of accussing, just show concern... We all have it, and if it helps you great, but don't "EXPECT" him to respond as you see fit, and Except what it is he says without feeling it is a direct hit to you.. But HIS Feelings... Which he is allowed to have as well...
I will cross my fingers you do what is right for you and your family, and if it comes from the heart, I don't see there being any damage, as long as when it goes another direction (Or IF), you Let GO & Let GOD!!!
Take what you like and leave the rest... For This too will Pass :) One Day At A Time...
