"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

rocky · Newbie

Does powerless imply non-influencial?

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

That is such a tough one, as it is such a fine line between being "influential" and believing that we are really in control of another person's sobriety.... I think it is a matter of degree, as yes, you can have "some" influence, per se, but realistically, your daughter is going to do what she is going to do, regardless of what you want..... You cannot "cause her sobriety" anymore than you can "cause her addiction".

All we can really do is love them, and continue to let them know that they DO have a choice of how they live their lives.... It's a slippery slope, indeed.

Take care
Tom

Jean4444 · ~*Service Worker*~

sure you can "influence" all you want!!
Not that it will make a bit of difference...what Tom said is the truth- they are going to do whatever it is that they are going to do. We cannot make anyone do anything and really when it comes down to it- would you REALLY want to? Don't you want the people around you to be free to be who they are as they are without meddling and trying to "get them" to do this, that or the other thing?

I want to be able to be who I am and I want to be around people who are free to be who they are- and we all can have compassion and forbearance and a sense of humor...ugh this manipulation thing is for the birds, really. I think its very unbecoming to be a puppet master! Jean

rocky · Newbie

manipulation is a form of influence but not the type of influence I was discussing. Any interaction will influence. A person's group of associates will heavily influence that persons behavior. Loving that person in part means wanting growth and joy in their lives. I agree, Svengali (sp?) attitudes are sick, but there still has to be a place for being a loving role model.

So I guess the question is where and how is the line drawn.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Rocky...that is why being in the program and going to face to face
meetings and reading the literature (much of it contributed by recovering
members) is the very best help and support you can get.   One of the
things you will find out is that blaming yourself thinking of yourself as
"less than" doesn't work and is one of the devises the disease of
alcoholism uses to destroy not only the drinker but anyone else who cares
and comes into contact with the drinker.

One of the very many recovery realizations that is helpful comes from the
"3Cs". This truthful mindset with give you a solid solution to your "why"
questions. Why you no longer can be influencial in your daughters life.
There are many other truths and for now the "3Cs" are "You haven't Caused it, You can't Control it and....You can't Cure it. When you come
to understanding this, your efforts to change or influence her will start
to relax and you will experience change. At first it might not feel good.
It didn't feel good to me because I was/am still "other centered". It is
more natural for me to care first about others than for myself. However
the "3Cs" offer me reality about was is being helpful and possible and
what is not.

If your daughter has a mind of her own and is having problems with her
decisions, the most helpful person is one who has been in the same place
as she is and found a way out or what we sometimes call a "recovering
person."   Having said that...if you daughter has a mind of her own and
is using it to make unhealthy choices whatever her justification and she
sees no reason to change it...you're better off in the program with those
of us who have learned to be restored to sanity.

Keep coming back here. MIP has strong program people who are very
loving and supportive.

(((((Hugs))))) smile

PS I went thru some of the drinking/using years by my son with my son
and the program. Take away "and the program" and I know that my son
and I wouldn't be having the relationship we have today.

nmike · ~*Service Worker*~

How about influencing by example. Going to meetings. Walking the spiritual walk. Working our program?

In support,
Nancy

Jen · ~*Service Worker*~

I think it really comes down to intentions and expectations. I find that if I do/say something intending/expecting someone else to change what they do/say/think, then I am not just influencing. I am manipulating.

For me it was really all about rigorous honesty with myself. I can talk circles around why I want to "help" someone else, but the truth is I wanted to show them how to do it. I didn't want them to have the freedom to think for themselves because I was afraid that they would fail. I had no confidence in them to run thier own lives. That is sadly disrespectful and that attitude permeated every interaction that I had with them.

A positive influence is to me very indirect. It is setting an example of health. I am not setting an example of health, if I am still expecting others to change to follow my will. I am setting a good example of health if I learn to set healthy boundaries, show respect for others ability to solve thier problems(even if they don't act like they can), learn to detach emotionally from other peoples lives.

So the line becomes much clearer with true, rigorous honesty. Not crystal, but clearer.

One suggestion that I got and worked for me was, if in doubt, don't. If I am not sure about a course of action, then I don't do it until I am relatively sure.

I hope you are getting to meetings. It has been the foundation of my recovery along with this place.

In recovery,

carolinagirl · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm with nmike, I don't think you can tell someone something, you have to show it. I have a 14 year old daughter and I can only imagine how hard it is for you to watch your baby destroy herself like this. I know when I tell my daughter something she argues the opposite almost without fail. When I model something she picks it up - good or bad. I think you can show your daughter you still love her and offer support of her choosing recovery if and when she does but I think you have to land on your butt pretty hard to wake up and sometimes that requires everyone just having a hands off attitude. Especially at 21! Say I love you but give her the dignity to let her make her own mistakes and hopefully learn from the consequences.

maresie · ~*Service Worker*~

Well I think one of the charecteristics of an alcoholic is they continue drinking in spite of influence. For a lot of people one DUI would be enough. If they are addicted they keep on it.

One way to be influential is to model taking care of yourself, one way is to model boundaries. One way is to let them have the consequences. Of course that is extremely hard to do. None of us do that alone. We do that with the help of a program. Working this program is hard going. Letting an alcoholic suffere the consequences means really having a solid foundation.

For me personally I always have to turn it back on myself, how is the alcoholic's behavior influencing me. My boundaries are all about the effect other people have on me. If I find them having a strong affect I change the boundary. Of course some things I have no control over, a job, certain people I can't avoid. So I would turn this back on you, what are you doing to take care of yourself in spite of such stress. What are you doing to look at your behavior, your thinking, your ability to detach and more. We have to look at ourselves rather than obsess on someone else's out of control behavior. We have to look at taking care of ourselves because if we don't (since we are around an alcoholic and other dysfunctionals) no one else will.

Maresie.

rocky · Newbie

Writing has always led me to think through issues, to question and resolve where I stand and test if my thoughts hold water.

In this BB and through meditation this morning, I've come to realize a few things.

I've known and advised other younger parents on the dangers of rearing children and fighting their battles and how it will only postpone problems and make for more difficult lessons in the future. I have not been walking my talk with my daughter. I've been letting her threats control my actions toward her. I've been walking on eggshells to keep her as what I now view a "functional alcoholic".

This group, I attended my first meeting last Sunday, reflects my stand. The members are acting as role models for showing love by volunteering to act as a positive influence in my life while letting me make my decisions. What I've seen so far is a group who demonstrates that true compassion involves respect for another's ability to learn on their own what they need to know to be a complete person. That I can buy into.

Thanks,

R

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

well rocky a statement that straighened me out was (Allow them the dignity to live thier lives the way they choose ) tough one to wrap your head around I know . for me the best way to suuport the alcoholic to get my own program mind my own business . I realize it must be harder to detach from a child than a spouse but bottom line as long as we continue to enable and accept unexceptable behavior absolutily nothing will change except you will get a little crazier . let h er know that she is loved , dont accept the guilt I know she is throwing at you , YOU are not the reason she drinks regardless of what she says . take care of you , set boundaries for your reltationship . Once she realizes shes on her own things will change and not always for the better . this is a progressive disease and it always gets worse before it gets better . good luck Louise

glad lee · ~*Service Worker*~

Great suggestions here. I just want to add, that it helped me to hear that our children are on their own journey in life. And, we are on our own journey. Separate journeys. They are going to have to learn from their own mistakes, however foolish and unwise. Indeed, they may have to learn the hard way. That is their choice. In my case, I hope that my daughter lives through her choices. What is my worst fear? That she might die. For a long time, I tried to advise her, control her, complained to her, desperately cried to her... and all it did was push her away. She stopped taking my calls. Our relationship had died. (If you want to make an enemy, try to change someone!!!!)

Finally, I realized that if she dies before I THINK SHE SHOULD... it was her journey, the path she chose for herself. Acceptance. I am allowing her the dignity to make her own decisions. For me, I choose to believe they are not "MINE," they are God's children. She has her own higher power, and I am not it. With this mindset, I am grateful to have a relationship with her.

Can I stay in this acceptance and powerlessness on my own?? Never. That's why I need this fellowship. The 12 steps begin with a very important word, "we." We can't do it alone, so HP created this fellowship to help us. I hope you keep coming back. It's a miracle that I can be at peace... even though nothing has changed outside of me.

-- Edited by glad lee at 10:09, 2009-01-08

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"