so now what? - Al-Anon Family Group

liljeannie · Senior Member

so now what?

Tenderheartsks · ~*Service Worker*~

There is never ever any excuse for physical abuse.

It hurts my heart to read posts like yours as I often have.

Instead of outright indignation, and anger over the fact that we do NOT deserve to be treated that way, we miminize what has happened, feel in some way we are surely to blame, and begin to doubt ourselves.

It isn't a deal breaker, but instead we lower the bar of standards for ourselves.

No one could have even done the limbo under the bar of standards I eventually settled for.

Every time we lower the bar, we give another little part of ourselves to someone else.

I became a shell of a woman by the time it was over with the AH.

It's a pattern with abusers. They become apologetic, profess they will 'never' do it again, that they didn't mean to do it while they wait for us to grab the hook they have just thrown out.

My heart hurts for you; it really does.

I'm scared for you. cry

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Lil...!!

Keep coming back and reading past post from the fellowship. Our solutions
you can use. Your solutions haven't worked. You keep wondering what your
part in it was and then you cite what you did. That was your part...simple.
Try something new, something different, something that worked for someone
else in your situation. If it worked for others it may work for you. That is what
I did. That is what was suggested to me. That is what worked for me.

I also use to stand on my alcoholic's shoulders and demand I be recognized,
respected, listened to and more. She was way to sick. When I got off of her
back she eventually went into recovery and got sober.

When a person asks "Leave me alone" it's okay to do that.

Keep coming back. (((((Hugs))))) smile

liljeannie · Senior Member

I do not condone his behavior, but I also can not condone my own. I have always believed that we are/should be held accountable for ourselves. I also believe that when you make a promise to someone, you should keep it, or never have made it in the first place. What began all of this was his refusal to keep his promise and give me a reason why he was breaking it. I wanted an answer and I intended to get it. Whenever he feels "uncomfortable" for lack of a better word, about a topic of conversation he just walks away....I followed, pushing, pushing, pushing for him to answer me. I get so tired of his lack of sticktuitivness, his running away from things he doesnt want to face, and this time I was not going to let him off the hook. He really has no problem solving skills, no coping methods because no one has ever held him accountable for anything, no one has ever called him on his word, until me. I have always been pretty much a "say what you mean, mean what you say, do what you say you will do" kind of person.
I have the weekend to myself here at home, and I am going to spend it working on plans, and reading everything I can about anger and violence and of course alcoholism.
I believe we are both to blame for this situation, again, without condoning his physical part in it. yeah, I should have moved, and when I did move away, finally, he stood there with his hands by his side, shaking in anger, and I kept pushing, he walked towards me, stood over me and said "I cant, I cant hurt you, I love you" and walked away.
Is this really a progression of violent behavior, or was it something that could have been prevented by me?
jeannie

-- Edited by liljeannie at 15:45, 2008-09-05

buick23 · Senior Member

I remember those times when he was getting ready to leave to go to the bar or who knows where to drink. I tried to stop him many times because I wanted him to stay home and not get drunk and then make me put up with his horrible drunken behavior when he got home, if he made it home. There were times when I almost got the door shut in my face and about got my feet run over by his car because I tried to stop him. At some point after I learned a bit about alcoholism I stopped trying to keep from leaving, and there were many times when he treathened me to leave and I said "ok, go ahead" and would stay home instead, I guess just so I wouldn't get my way (reverse psychology?)

A friend of mine tried to keep her bf, now ex I suppose, from going out, and he beat her up for it. Actually he beat her up for any reason and no reason. But everytime she rebelled against him, especially when she would ask him questions like where he had been when he got home, who he was with, she got beat up for it.

Even though my A is sober now, he still runs away from things he doesn't want to face, and nowdays I let him run or keep to himself if he doesn't want to talk. I can't make him do anything.

Like tenderhearts said, we lower our standards, they apologize for their behavior, and then it happens again.

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

Sorry Jennie , only cowards and bullies push women around his behavior was totally unexceptable , nothing u did or said deserved to be bruised or pushed .
Just my opinion Louise

RLC · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Lil))) Sometimes our most difficult problems or the simplest to see if only we were not in our own shoes, inside our own bubble. Take off your shoes and burst your bubble. Read your posts again as if a friend were writting to you. What would you advise her? abbyal, and buick23 have been there done it and survied to see a brighter day, both shared their ESP with you.

No one but a coward would push or hurt a woman. There are no circumstances that warrant such behavior. We also have to be careful not to put ourselves in harms way, when walking away can be a choice. There have been times in my life both in dealing with the A, or for that matter in business when defusing a situation that was out of control meant me turning and walking in the other direction. In the last two years since I have been in this program I realize it is not turning my back on a problem. It is called detachment. I has been a wonderful tool and easy to use. It works 100% of the time for me.

This program works if you work it. It is the best next thing. As hard as this program is, it is still simple if taken in baby steps. Life is hard and not always fair, but with this program the weight of the world becomes much lighter. RLC

Karilynn · ~*Service Worker*~

(((((liljeannie))))),

Having taught classes on domestic violence, there is no excuse for anyone to strike another human being. My AH's mother and first wife use to beat him. How humiliating. He married what he knew. He changed that with me. I once started to raise a hand to him, out of sheer frustration (and before I really found Alanon), but I stopped. I was no better than they were. If the relationship was going to end, it wasn't going to end that way. He knew that if he ever hurt me, that would be the end of it. No second chances. So why shouldn't I expect that if I struck him? I wasn't going to go down that road.

It takes two to make a relationship. It only takes one to end it with a physical attack. Accept your role and responsibility in the relationship. That's fine. But for me, the moment someone struck, we'd be done. No second chances, no excuses.

In the end, I was happy that hubby and I worked things out. It wasn't easy, but we never raised a hand to each other again. Love and blessings to you and your family.

Live strong,
Karilynn & Pipers Kitty

Jean4444 · ~*Service Worker*~

I second what the others say about physical abuse (above). I can promise you it WILL escalate. Please love yourself enough to stop making excuses and placing blame. You are a precious asset to us and others close to you in addition to yourself. Hugs, J.

-- Edited by Jean4444 at 12:50, 2008-09-06

serendipity · ~*Service Worker*~

My ex was physically abusive. We went to thearpy. The briliant counselor suggested that I just stand there and take it. Because his biggest complaint was that I ALWAYS ran away. Sure, from a guy that was twice my size and who's rage topped mine any day of the week. But, being that I would do everything necessary to help the relationship, I stood there....and got the snot beat out of me.

Now, where did the physical violence begin? With me being so angry with his lack of response to MY feelings, ignoring me, talking down to me, walking out on ME that I tried to get him to listen. Took his hand, touched his cheek. My physical actions were not violent. His were. Believe it or not, keeping someone from leaving a room is physical abuse. Grabbing, pinching, pulling, flicking, shoving, kicking all physical abuse. And just like alcoholism is a progressive disease, physical abuse only escalates. When it comes to abuse, there is nothing you can or can't do to change it. Kinda like alcoholism....

So, get yourself out of the way. THAT is the ONLY way you can "take responsibility for YOUR part". You can't talk him out of abusing you, you can't abuse him out of abusing you. All you CAN do is take responsibility for keeping YOURSELF safe. You did and said NOTHING to make him shake with anger. YOu did and said NOTHING to make him leave bruises on your body. It IS NOT part of the alcoholism that would make him abusive. It is a seperate monster that needs seperate attention. The 12 steps, unless worked with a sponser who has intimate knowledge of domestic violence, will not cure the abuses. Including physical, sexual, financial, menatl and emotional.

maresie · ~*Service Worker*~

I dunno there are always two sides to a story. The A who I was with was physically violent, he always had an excuse. Never ever was it his fault. He'd say sorry and then do it again, was that really sorry.

I am with you on holding people accountable. I think in time I had also to hold myself accountable. The relationship was more important than me. I made it first and me last. I think we have to have ourselves and then the relationship. Clearly if someone is physically violent there are lots of things wrong. Admittedly there are lots of things wrong when we are so out of control we cant exit quickly when someone is losing it. I avoid like the plague people I consider abusive. I didn't always do that. Sometimes I can't do that so well in a working situation but I do see red flags. For me the issue is always about not seeing the red flags so not taking care of myself. Now I see the red flags and I still struggle to take care of myself.

Like you I could always see the abusers, the A's issues. He always had tons of them. Whatever were my issues were minimal. I was always supposed to convolute myself to his issues. Now I don't do that. I am certainly mindful of other people's issue but I don't take care of them

You may remember if you read my posts I have talked about the Karpman triangle a lot. I lived, ate breathed the Karpman triangle most of my life. Seems to me that you might be in it. Look for literature on that. Melody Beattie has a nice chapter in her book Codependent No More.

One thing I would caution you about in your search to read about alcohlism and violence particularly Family Violence. Don't believe you yourself can counsel, persuade, educate your A out of this issues. He has to look for his own help, he has to be willing to look at his issue himself and seek out resources for them. You can't find them.

So yeah sure give yourself a break from the relationship, study up, get prepared to do a lot of work on yourself but don't for one minute believe you are going to be able to cure him with love, understanding, compasson, compressing yourself into something, educating him, giving him books, giving him tapes, reading him stuff, whatever. He has to really really want it and go after it as you are.

Maresie.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.