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Well, last night was a birthday meeting at my bf's AA meeting. They were having a speaker and everybody brought food - my AlAnon group included. I was very excited to go! We got there and mingled with everybody, bf introduced me and ate and had a really great time! The first speaker was a young women (about 21) who bascially took us through her life starting at 13 with how alcohol came into her life. I sat there listening to her stories about how she got high, how she would drink, where she would hide it, how she would get it, how she hide it from her family, etc. She is now 3 years clean. But during her story she would make it funny, about drinking, etc. and people there would laugh, and I would hear comments like "been there, ha ha", "I remember those day ha ha". Now please don't take this the wrong way. I am proud of everyone's sobriety. I realize it is a tremendously great thing to overcome. It's not that I'm thinking down on anyone. But for me, myself sitting there, listening to these stories, sitting besides my bf who used to love to "party", I became very very anxious very fast. I have never been a "party girl", I have never been into "that crowd" and I have never been a fan of alcohol or drugs. I grew up in a house with a A dad for 21 years that would verbally abuse me, and had to deal with my now A soberbf for 3 years during meth and alcohol addition (he was a user for 15 years). So to hear anyone think that these things are "funny" even a little bit, just doesn't work for me. Too me, nothing about drinking/drugging is funny. NOTHING!! I have a lot of anger towards alcohol. After the meeting was over, my bf asked how I liked it. I said that that wasn't good for me. Said it made me incredably anxious and that I should have left, but would have felt funny getting up and leaving in front of everyone. I told him that he would never understand where I am coming from. Told him I will never let any alcohol back in my home, never. Needless to say, I was mad and upset and made it very clear my feelings toward alcohol now. Told him that it's not that I am not grateful anyone has found sobriety, but to me nothing about it is a laughing matter. He said he could understand, I am just not ready and people take healing at different paces. He just said they are making light of it becuase they can look how far they have come. That's fine for them. But what about the people that watched them, supported them, do they look back and think it is funny. Not me. Not one bit. Told bf I am just not ready yet to sit back and laugh and say "oh look how far I have come...I remeber those days". And to be honest, I can never really see myself getting to that point. I told my bf that alcohol has affected my life for so long, I will never think it is funny. I guess it's because I am on the other side. All those people there, while they are laughing about the past, do they ever think who they really hurt during there "party" days? Do they really remember?? Would they think it was funny? Alcohol truly enrages me. It makes me so mad I can physical feel it. And the more I think of the laughing last night, the angrier I get.
I remember my first open AA meeting with hubby. It was quite an eye-opening experience. I am so glad I went. I loved going to meetings with him. It reminded me of the journey and struggle he was on. It also was a good reminder on how I must work my program. It was good to see them laugh and cry. I liked the humor. It reminded me that healing is possible. That some day we could look back on this and laugh.
I actually went back to an open AA meeting the other day, and asked his sponsor if I could say something to the room. I thanked them for all their support they showed Tim over the years. Many were very sad to learn of his passing. But I reminded them that he passed sober and his death had nothing to do with his disease. I gave out memorial cards to those who wanted them. I wished them well on their continued journey. His sponsor said I was welcome back any time. I'm pretty sure I won't be back, unless Tim's friend from rehab wants me to come. It was something I felt I was compelled to do.
I was never hated alcohol. I hated the disease and the destruction it causes to all who come in contact with it. I'm not a big drinker by any strecth of the means. I am less than a tea tottler. However yesterday I was wanting a glass of red wine with dinner. I wasn't sure about walking into the same place that he use to by his vodka. I did. It wasn't the store's fault that he had a disease. It's nobodys'. I got the bottle. It will probably take me a month to finish it.
Perhaps because I was blessed not to have grown up in an alcoholic family I feel slightly differently about things. I can understand your point of view. Remember humor is healing. People who have cancer often use humor as part of their therapy. It doesn't mean that having cancer is funny. When life deals you lemons, you make lemonade or they go bad. Everybody's coping mechanism is different. For now, don't be so hard on yourself. You're doing the best you can.
I would encourage you to keep going to those meetings. Listens to their stories. Listen to their struggles. Be amazed at how they can laugh at themselves! Be amazed at their recoveries! Then, be amazed at your own recovery! Love and blessings to you and your family. Continued success to you both.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
I have attended many, many speaker meetings, both AA and Al-Anon. The one thing I can say without fail that every one of those shared was laughter. In both programs, when you hear speakers telling their stories you will here the terrible things that have happened in their lives...some less....some more.
I have listened in amazement time and time again at peoples stories. I laugh. I cry. I relate. I have learned so very, very much from hearing people tell what it was like, what they did to recover, and what it is like now.
The laughter for me is so very, very healing. Somehow it bonds us all together. Al-Anon has taught me not to take my self so seriously as I used to do. I have learned to laugh at myself.
When I sit in those meetings I laugh. Being Al-Anon sometimes I don't laugh at the same things the A's laugh at, because as you say, to me, it just isn't funny. But that's okay. I have told my story a few times too, to a mixed crowd. Sometimes we Al-anon's laugh at things those A's don't find funny either .
But to me its all about acknowledgment. We laugh with them. We cry with them. We share their story which in some ways sometimes to a lesser or a great degree is our story too.
I heard a long time sober member of AA say "Laughter is the beginning of healing" once. I just smiled and nodded my head. For me, being able to laugh again was absolutely the first outward sign that I was starting to get better.
I recall one of my first al-anon meetings which turned out to be a little baby shower (along with a meeting). Lots of happy laughing people, cake, presents, giggling, etc. I walked up to the door and looked in the window and saw all these smiling laughing happy people and I thought: "what the he**, this does not look like the place for me!" I turned around to leave. I was in tears. I was in SO MUCH pain at that time. I really could not stand to stay. Fortunately, someone saw me standing there and ran out and spoke to me as I was leaving. She encouraged me to come back. I did. The rest is history, thank God.
I felt like there was no room for the crying, wounded "me" in that happy bunch. I was in such an incredible amount of pain at that time. I was at my rock bottom. I was ruined. I was completely flattened by my disease. I was quite threatened by the joy in that meeting and yet I so wanted that kind of joy- I was so beaten down that I had no where to go but up and I took a hold of that woman's hand and returned to that happy room of light, out of the darkness of the night both literally and metaphorically.
I'm sorry, but I guess I am way just not there yet. I think it just bothers me, becuase do you think any Alcoholic actually really realizes what harm they have done? Do they ever truly apolizgize and actually really feel remorse for their actions? I mean do they really know how their "disease" has affected people. I know my part and my disease have hurt people, but I don't sit there and laugh and say "oh remember when I said this or did this to you - ha ha ha. I am better now so I'm glad we can laugh about that." I guarentee my bf wouldn't laugh at the things that I did that were hurtful to him. Sorry...but I am just really angry today.
you are where you are and that is totally OK. You have every right to be furious, I was and sometimes still am some days. Its all part of the process. My A was abusive, too. So not funny, I know, it almost killed me, literally.
Your wounds are old, deep and in some ways fresh all at the same time. I have been there, too. Hugs, J.
mslouise, I am in the same boat you are right now. I grew up w/an A dad, who wasn't abusive, but while he was drinking, my sister and I would have to sit w/him and listen to his drunken rambling, laughing (that didn't make sense), kinda like babysitting him. And we'd have to stay up till HE was ready for bed, all while my mom watched TV in the living room. Then I married an A, who was sober for over 15 years before his relapse, and I've been thru he** for the last couple of years. When he tells me the "funny" stories they share at meetings, I don't get it either. Everything their disease did to the spouses and familes, to me, is not funny, and like you, I never want to go back to that place in my life. You know, A's say you can never understand what it's like to be an A if you're not one, how hard it is when your active in your disease or even on a daily basis in recovery. The way I see it, I agree with that. But you know what, A's can never, ever understand what it's like to be in our shoes, the emotional abuse/rollercoaster we dealt with on a daily basis, some for many, many years and the hurt we have endured. I can forgive my A, but I don't find his actions while active in his disease funny at all.
Oh I remember so well feeling exactly the way you describe. Infact, I believe it was just a week or so ago that I posted about my resentments against A's in general. And I have brought it up at meetings and that the A's in my meeting joke with me about it (like they are "scared" of me).
I hated the A's making light of what they did. And I said so to my then husband. I said "If you people only realized that you did all this rotten stuff and you were drunk or stoned and we who were right there with you, worrying, scared witless, doing dangerous things ourselves to get you to stop....we were totally SOBER. And that many A's stories do NOT include any remorse for what they did to their families is sickening and a testament to how NOT recovered they really are>" And that is the truth. The A's I have heard speak that are truly recovering always have awareness of what their families went thru during their using days. ANd those are the speakers I respect. Those are the ones who have real wisdom and true sobriety. Sure everyone is at different stages and we all have to go thru the stages to get to the next one. But I don't want to hear a "drunkalog" about the good ole days. That IS unproductive especially for the A's who are newly sober and trying hard to forget how much "fun" they had partying.
Totally fine to be mad. I mean, heck, the girl was 21? She's a baby. Good for her that she's been sober for 3 years. But being sober doesn't = healthy. I still can't go to open AA meetings. And I did for years. It was our "date night". But so many times I hear what you heard and it just makes me mad. I stick to the AA's in the rooms of alanon. If they make it to alanon then they have awareness and wisdom. The AA's in our rooms have real depth and ESH to share and they have helped me at times more than anyone. But open AA meetings are no longer for me. I am glad I went, it helped me understand and I recommend going to any alanon who has those questions about Aism. But it's NOT for me at this point. Maybe again some other day....
I identify with your feelings. I, too, have gone to AA meetings and felt bitter.
My sponsor is a double-winner. She has spent many days trying to help ME to forgive myself. Her example of forgiving herself is an inspiration to me, yet I am aware of her story. She has an acute awareness of how she had hurt others, especially her husband and children. I love my sponsor very much and I am grateful that she must no longer crucify herself. She encourages me to do the same... not put myself in the god position by refusing to do so. "God forgives! Why shouldn't I,?" she says.
If you think about it, there is soooo much to be thankful for... for all those who are WILLING to attend a program of recovery!!! I was not so lucky with my A. I can be the queen of self-pity about that!!! But I have a program too... that teaches me I cannot grow if I wallow on the pity pot. I hate alcohol. But not alcoholics. I am grateful that in our society, some choose to forgive themselves, go to meetings and grow.... just like me.
((((hugs))))
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
Feel your feelings. I hope you have a sponsor or a trusted friend that you can be bluntly honest with.
I can very much so relate to how you are feeling now when I was new in Alanon. Your story very much mirrors mine growing up. Once someone truly validated me for the first time when I told them how terribly alcohol affected my life and how I couldn't live with it anymore. They listened and agreed with me. Often we are told to stick it out, toughen up, you name it.
As a result I did not go to AA meetings. I kept going to Alanon. I realized that I was very angry at all drunks, recovering or not.
Well as we say in this program, keep coming and I did. About 6 years into program one evening I really needed a meeting and there was only an AA meeting and so I went. It was fine then. I had been working my own program and taking my own inventory and realizing my part in this disease and so it was okay then.
People sometimes laugh out of nervousness. Sometimes people laugh when they relate. Sometimes people laugh because if not, they may cry. I learned here that we are never alone. The AA's who do work their own program, who work the big book and get sponsors do find recovery. Their journey is very different from ours.
They say in AA they learn not to drink, just one day at a time. Sometimes that's all they can do. Many AA's will come over into Alanon where they say "it's where we all learn to grow up, to mature."
I hope this helps knowing I have been where you are. Keep coming my friend, keep coming, Maria
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If I am not for me, who will be? If I am only for myself, then who am I? If not now, when?
Now that I am the mother of two alcoholic daughters, I can say that I understand 100% of what I put my parents through and how much I hurt them in my active alcoholism.
I was remorseful and aware of the pain after I got clean/sober, but as with anything, until you've actually lived it, you can't grasp it completely.
I've watched my grandchildren from my oldest AD suffer in their mother's addictions, and no, that is not funny, nor will it ever be. There are days it still hurts and I have to place that pain in God's hands.
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"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson
Laughter does not always denote humor as in funny. Laughter can come from feelings of nervousness, realizing stupidity, feeling odd, counterfeit/fake, embarrassment, feelings of shame, questionable actions.
Have you ever heard someone say, Funny not as in ha ha but as in odd, curious?
These are people who obviously realize their lives were NOT funny, dying is no laughing matter, taking families down with them isn't funny. The guilt and shame are tremendous.
Not until I came to terms with not wanting revenge did I get it (understood). These people are finally having to get really really honest with themselves. For maybe the very first time...they see how STUPID many of their little games were. How they were never really fooling anyone.
When you put "funny" in the context of insane, ignorant, lacking luster, lacking pride you may be better able to realize they are laughing "AT" themselves not at those of us who suffered.
Chalk me up as someone who didn't get it at first either. Someone who has had to stretch outside of her comfort zone to understand. Not one single person in those rooms are proud of what they've caused. They are sick people searching for hope, acceptance, love and understanding. They scare themselves when they look back at what they did in the past.
Hope this helps. It's what I've come to realize. I can't judge where they are, thank heaven I'll never know. What a blessing they feel comfortable enough in our presence to say outloud," My previous actions were INSANE, love me anyway."
Yes, I go through these periods of intense anger and I don't find the things that funny sometimes either, I find it tough when I think of the deprivation that was in my alcoholic childhood, it was unbelievable, the emotional frostiness, bad moods, constantly having to fix matters, now I am dealing with it again with my father's second's wife illness, ferrying three very selfish individuals too and from the airport, today I was complemented on how lucky I was to be flexible, I quietly pointed out that I work seven days and that I was happy to do the runs but they were not easy to do, make your points and own your anger, I feel I have a right to be angry but am not stooping to pick up pieces any more, look after you,
Well no one says you have to do anything. If you feel uncomfortable that's fine. The issue is that none of us can acually dictate how anyone recovers. I know there are lots of meetings where I feel uncomfortable I don't go back.
We all have our recovery process. Yours is different that is precious. You do not have to be anywhere you feel uncomfortable and you can stick to meetings where you do feel comfortable. I really work on being around people as much as comfortable who make me comfortable. I also try to stick around people who I like and enjoy.
I have spent years and years and years of my life living with an A who brought people around who made me immensely uncomfortable. I spent years dealing with his mother who gave me the heebee geebies.
Sometimes as codependents we analyze stuff to death. If we don't feel comfortable and have a choice, avoid it. You don't have to go in and "fix" them. That is the way their meetings are, you don't like it, don't go.
I no longer try to convolute myself to fit places where I don't enjoy the experirence.
I have spent years of my life talking about what others "need" to do. Now I spend most of my time focused on what do I need, what makes me feel better, what is going to move me along the process. I'm not selfish. I appreciate other's recovery. I applaud those who recover and have sobriety. I don't have to be there hands on with them every step of the way to exist in the world and feel uncomfortable along the way.
I hear you. I have been going to alot of AA meetings lately because I can't get an Alanon started. I noticed right off that they laugh and kid each other way more then at Alanon meetings. I also noted that in alot of AA meetings they have couches or nice chairs. Alanon usually has metal chairs like at a meeting at work. You know there just is a difference in what we go thru as Alanoners recovering from them and what AA's go thru recovering from an addiction. I listen to recovery tapes. One therapist said, "you know your relationship is an illusion, I use have the darkest days about my relationship, but now I think that is quite funny". Even tho I gain alot from her tapes, I say back to her (in my mind), there has been nothing funny about what I have gone thru with my AHSober. Particularly him leaving the marriage.
But I do know to heal and be in recovery, we have to learn to let go and let people be how they perceive they should be. I am learning that we have choices. As hard as it is we can choose not to be with our A's.
(((((((mslouise))))))) I feel your pain. The reality of it all is not fun. I am often still in the "hurts to much to laugh" category in my recovery. Take it one step at a time. Take care of yourself. Keep coming!
I understand where you are coming from, as the pain and damage caused by my AH is just tremendous. I gotta say however, in my situation, I think I would like to see my AH laugh once in a while (though admittedly not about the ways in which he hurt ME), because it would at least be some acknowledgement that he behaved inappropriately and had a problem. My AH truly is a brilliant man, and I do not think he has one inkling of understanding the pain he has put me through. I actually asked him once, and his answer was "no". I believe that was true. It is a difficult thing for me to come to peace with. I hear you, mslouise. Just keep coming back to al-anon. We get it.
Blessings, Lou
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Every new day begins with new possibilities. It's up to us to fill it with the things that move us toward progress and peace. ~ Ronald Reagan~
Sometimes what you want to do has to fail, so you won't ~Marguerite Bro~
It's okay to be angry. Feelings are extactly what they are, feelings. You can either bury them or deal with them. Burying them will only back fire. Feeling them, will allow you to cope with them. In time, you will find yourself not so angry. I was angry at my A. I was angry at his disease. I was angry at what it was doing to us. The more I worked my program, the less angry I became.
"becuase do you think any Alcoholic actually really realizes what harm they have done? Do they ever truly apolizgize and actually really feel remorse for their actions? I mean do they really know how their "disease" has affected people."
The answer to that is yes, they do realize what they have done. I have never been to an open AA meeting where I haven't heard addicts feel remorse for what they have done, and the harm they have caused. Some may not be ready to admit and make their amends. For others, it took years. As for my Tim, not a day didn't go by when he felt like :sensored: for what he did to me and the rest of his family. My father in law to this day (after 20+ years sobriety) still feels guilty that he introduced his sons to alcohol. As if it was his fault that the disease manifested itself in Tim and not his brother. I don't know anyone who wants to grow up to be an addict. Would you want to grow up and become one? I wouldn't. Now are there bad seeds in AA? Sure. There are also bad seeds in Alanon. The world is made up of human beings, and there will always be bad seeds. But I refuse to believe that all addicts are bad people. I know too many that are sweet, loving and kind. If it weren't for their disease and the hold it has on them, the world would be stunned at how remarkable they really are. Don't give up on the addicts as human beings. Look beyond the addiction and see what is really there. I was blessed that I knew my Tim well before the disease had a hold on him. When he didn't drink, he was still that same wonderful man I fell in love with 20 years ago. The disease masked the real man. The same way our disease masks who we really are.
Love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
I feel exactly like you. Why are you all laughing about something so tragic?
I started going to AA rooms just to get away for eveybody drinking around me and get out of the bars that I worked in. I had no idea what Al-anon was. And, nobody suggested it. I guess I thought I was an alcholic too back then. But, looking back, I see I'm not. But, I was the great enabler. Although I had no problem taking the pills doctors gave me to make get up and feel like working. It's not always laughs in all AA rooms.
Traveling around, I've seen many many different rooms. Neither one was really the same. And, gentlemen in their 70's and 80's now that FINALLY gave it up 30 years ago, don't seem to laugh as much. Like they see the damage. I saw and see younger A's in "recovery" laugh about it still. I started out tonight reading a post about a brother that drowned and someone else that died cause of alcohlol posioning. I can count a dozen or more lives that ended cause of it and drugs too. I was always numb too. I'd have my one, two or three drinks. The third or fouth would knock me out, however.
Never the less, I participated. And, always, took "legal" drugs. Of course, I was good at having many doctors. They always seem to say, "no - don't take that, take these." So, as I traveled around, I'd end up with a suit case of prescritions. I guess I was never "intoxicated" enough to remember the past as funny. They were drunk, so, maybe they still remember it as funny. I don't.
Never the less, AA rooms were all I knew of for so long. I think that Ala-non program would help a lot of them. Most alcoholics were effected by others drinking too.
I've been told by many sober alcohilics that just not drinking TODAY is the result of working their program. I know laughter is healing/helpful sometimes. I often subsitiute watching a funny DVD (laughter) for the L in my slogan(HALT.)
The L really stands for lonely. But, I've long given that up - trying to be not lonely. I know in this Ala-non chat room, besides ESH (expereince, sharing, hope) -- there is laughter sometimes. And, it is helpful for me. I never saw what was so funny about pulling a chair out from under someone as they were sitting down. But, everyone would laugh and laugh. It's that slap stick humor.
Laughing seeing someone get hit over the head. I never thought it was funny. I don't think its funny seeing someone drunk out of their mind. But, I know in AA rooms, they recant their stories --- mostly laughing about how stupid or silly it was.
I use to hear in AA rooms that people come into the rooms at different points of lives. Some have just begun drinking and maybe can see the path it leads. Others are further along, but maybe haven't lost everything. And, hopefully, they can stop before they loose it all. Others lost it all, before they found soberity. And, many alcholics go in and out of their program too. I heard many say that they are reworking their steps for the fouth or fifth time. I know in my Ala-non program,I keep falling down the "steps" too. Sometimes, I pick myself up and start back up the steps. Other times, like now, I don't have the movitavation to even try.
All the years I was hanging out in AA rooms, I never asked or said much. Probably why no one ever suggested I go to the back room where a Ala-non meeting was. Maybe they didn't exist back then? But, I do the same thing here. I do as I'm told and/or take the crumbles from the table in my A's world. So, I tell you all of this so you'll know probably how worthless my advise is. But, if I where in your shoes, I won't go to AA meeting. Or, at least that one. And, I don't really see the value for you searching out other meeting, to maybe find one that does work for you. Just tell your boyfriend each and everytime how very very proud you are of him going to the meetings. I wish or wished now that my A's would go.
-- Edited by Phebe at 05:45, 2008-08-31
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"Yo se lo que debimos hacerlo" (I know what I've got to be.)
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Feelings are extactly what they are, feelings. You can either bury them or deal with them. Burying them will only back fire. Feeling them, will allow you to cope with them. In time, you will find yourself not so angry. I was angry at my A. I was angry at his disease. I was angry at what it was doing to us. The more I worked my program, the less angry I became. 