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I was reading the previous posts about assigning blame to the alcoholic. I am just now working the first Alanon Step that says that we accept alcoholism as a disease and decide how this effects how we treat the alcoholic. I would like to hear some insight into how this has effected the relationship you have with your A...?
My ex didn't want to believe that it is a disease. Accepting that it is a disease led me to have more compassion for him while he was still suffering and in his early sobriety. He was hard on himself with the things he had done while he was using, I kept telling him it was a disease. When he would tell me the messed up (and I mean MESSED UP!) thoughts he was having or the hard time he was having with the cravings, I would say it is a nasty disease. And he refused to believe it! He wanted to believe that he had total control over his actions at all times and he was NO victim of a disease. He had all the power.
We talked alot about the disease model and all the new research and it's conclusions. I understood why he didn't want to think that he had a lifelong disease. But at the same time, it seemed to be a real stumbling block for him.
I, on the other hand, accepted that he did what he did because of the disease. That made it possible for me to make sense out of a senseless disease. I can't cure cancer, or AIDS or TB, I can't cure alcoholism. Believe me, I tried. My ex wanted me to. Eventually, my compassion turned to pity and then to disqust.
Now, the step one that we read is "admitted we were powerless over alcohol and OUR lives had become unmanagable". Step one in alanon is all about me! I am powerless over the A and trying to control the A has made MY life unmanagable....that's the truth!!!!
Sometimes I have a really hard time accepting that alcoholism is a disease. Lately I am starting to think thats just an excuse. Alcoholics make the decision to drink because they enjoy it or feel they need it, people with cancer dont make a decision to live with cancer and certainly dont enjoy or need that. Just my thoughts tonight....
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Just because someone doesn't love you the way you want, doesn't mean that they don't love you the best way they know how
Well, we admit that we are powerless over alcohol and that our lives have become unmanageable. I thought I could control it and protect my children. Yes, I blame the alcoholic (because I am alone and my life is different and this was not my choice). But I married him and I wanted to save my marriage. But I know that he is not the blame and that it is a disease that neither one of us can control. The only way is to get into a recovery program.
(((Amy))) It is easy for me to accept that alcoholism is a disease. I am not all knowing, but it is my belief that the disease has different effects, strangle holds, and destructive traits on each individual. It is not a simple easy defined disease. It makes some dirve their cars fast, others beat their wives, and causes death in others. The disease not only effects the Alcololic but anyone who comes in contact with it, be it family, friends, love ones, husbands or wives. Everyone is affected that the A touches, no one is spared.
I have a hard time believing that my AW enjoyed losing her job of 16 yrs, or enjoys destroying her life and health, and posibility her marriage so she can drink 12 or 14 beers each day. I have seen this disease progress, and see it control 100% of her daily life. She is a very smart intelligent lady, she knows she has a problem, but the grip is strong. I for one strongly believe Alcoholism is a disease, for I have seen it slowly but surely wreck and destroy someone I love very much, and I have seen her disease have a direct effect on her three children, her mother, her close friends ( lots of those former close friends ) and her husband.
Sorry, Amy I never answered your question did I. How has Alcoholism effected my relationship with my AW? Lots of ways, I came back to my business tonight to do some catch up work. Truth be known I came back to "detach with love". Like everyone else who lives with an active alcoholic some days are harder than others. I always wear my Al-Anon shoes, but there are days when I sturggle to keep them "laced up". RLC
I, too, had struggled with the term "disease." But now, I like to use it to not make it personal, about WHO they/we really are.
WHO we really are... is GOODNESS at our core! But when our thinking gets distorted... and we lose our connection to a Higher Power... we are at "dis-ease." It happens to all of us, not only alcoholics.
I'm beginning to think of life as a spiritual battlefield. Stick with Higher Power, and all is well. Lose faith in Higher Power, (or in my case, allow my grand ego to take over) and we are at spiritual dis-ease.... ( which can then turn into emotional and physical disease.... )
Just my unfolding, sketchy perspective...
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
I believe alcoholism is a disease, a very real and destructive disease. Unlike cancer, diabetes, MS, heart, etc. there are no tests to give to determine its existence. So to compare alcoholism to cancer or any of the others is like comparing the proverbial apples to oranges. Both are fruits, but the similarity ends there. In my humble opinion, alcoholism is a disease of first the genetic makeup of the A and then the mental development. My son is the A in my life. For the past two years there has been constant and chaotic decline in his abilities to make his life work. He has supposedly now seen the light and has been in daily AA meetings for six weeks and now has a sponsor. I say supposedly because the biggest effect this disease has on people who love A's is TRUST. You lose the ability to trust someone you love. You fall into depression and grief over the lost hope and the awful drama/chaos that comes from their using alcoholic. In the development of this disease they suffer great depression. Sometimes I ask myself which came first: depression and then alcohol OR using alcohol and the ensuing depression.
Unlike other diseases there is no magic pill to help alleviate the horrible symptoms and the decline as they use. Even in severe mental illness of other kinds, medications often help. With alcoholism no medications exist. I also don't think that much is done in the area of research to seek answers to treatment. Why bother? The vast majority of people seem to believe that alcoholism is a weakness in character in the individual. At times I, too, fall back into that idea. But mostly I accept the disease theory. I watch my son on given days and at certain times. It is quite obvious when he is OK and the son I raised and loved. Other times, when alcohol is influencing him, it is quite obvious that he is sick. Yes, there are rehab programs which tout "cures"; if you can afford them I suppose they might be worth a shot. Most people can't afford extensive rehab, so AA is the answer most seek. I have no clue if AA truly works for the great majority; what I have read is that the relapse is high in AA as in other programs. I am praying hourly that AA is the treatment that will work for my son. But I am afraid it won't. He is highly functioning and as such, submission to any program is very difficult for him to do. Right now, he is; next week, who knows???
And so the debate goes on as it has forever, it seems. Those of us who suffer daily from having a loved one addicted know only too well the horrible damage the malady causes.
CoDe, I am the one that wrote about blame. It might be useless putting blame on any situation, but my AH spends the majority of his time blaming everything under the stars for his situation especially his loved ones instead of looking in the mirror. I wish my A was the type that would express deep remorse for his actions or wanted to seek help, but that is not the case. I might then feel more compassion for him. He refuses to believe that he has a problem and that his actions are dictated by outside forces. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the disease concept. Yes, I understand when their bodies and brain get to the point that they are going through withdrawal and are physically ill by not drinking that now it is out of their control. I haven't gone to many f2f meetings and haven't worked the program, but I have read a lot about alcoholism. I bought the documentary HBO did on addiction and found it eye opening and in it they talk about it as a disease. But, the question of choice then gets confusing if it's their choice to drink and no one elses then how can it be a disease, noone chooses to get cancer etc.. I think it's a problem of judgement and hedonistic behavior, and the inability to realize where our actions will lead us and it's affect on others. I have heard too many stories about severe things happening to alcoholics and their loved ones and they don't stop their behavior, that doesn't give much hope to those of us sitting on the side lines. I know that I need to let go of the anger, but I don't think I can stay in this situation and have peace of mind. I don't know what I would do if it was a child of mine in this situation, you can't divorce your child. I wish that I could make him see the forest beond the trees, but that is impossible. I like you am seeking aswers where there maybe none. olga
I had to spend quite a bit of time on this in early program. I think the clincher for me was discovering that an alcoholic actually metabolizes alcohol differently from a non-alcoholic. Google THQ and alcoholism for some articles.
At that point, I was able to say, ok, I get it to the extent I'm GOING to be able to get it. Now I can put down the concern over the alcoholic, and what the nature of what's going on with him is, and start actually working my own program, which means focusing on ME.
By the bye, there have been some recent studies on genetic markers for alcoholism and manipulating "switches" to turn those on and off, in rats - there was a fascinating show on maybe NOVA just a few weeks ago. Hard to tell how old a rerun it was, of course. Also hard to tell whether it improved the rats' dispositions, or just their drinking.
Step One: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol-that our lives had become unmanageable.
I don't have to accept that Alcoholism is a disease in order to
(1) admit that I am powerless over alcohol; or
(2) work the Steps.
I would encourage you to not let this debate (which is really interesting) interfere with your desire to work the Steps. Remember to keep the focus on you!! Al-Anon is about us and not the A--and I love that it is all about US!!
Yours in recovery,
SLS
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Do not be anxious about tomorrow; tomorrow will look after itself. The Bible, from Courage to Change, p.138
Such a wonderful post and very wide, open and honest responses. After reading them all I admit that all of the responses with their perceptions of disease/no disease were mine at one time or another along the journey in Al-Anon I have taken over the past 29+ years. Yes I couldn't get the disease aspect early on while yes I thought that she had the ability to stop or at least control her drinking. I thought Al-Anon was all wet in what they were trying to get me to buy so I went to college on the disease on alcoholism and substance abuse and when I graduated I had to admit that most of it was spoken in the meetings I just wouldn't grasp it without further investigation. UNDER THE INFLUENCE A GUIDE TO THE MYTHS AND REALITIES OF ALCOHOLISM by DR. JAMES R. MILAM AND KATHERINE KETCHAM is a paperback book well worth reading for those who struggle with the disease aspect and there are many here that do. I didn't want her to have the cop out to being sick because I too took the disease personal.
Some get it sooner and some later. For me I was a later guy taking about 5 years before finally getting off of her shoulders. It was freedom for me I don't know about her except that when we were married, the more I tried to stop her the more she drank. I couldn't figure that out until I understood the disease aspect and one of it's statements that the alcoholic drinks when they want to and when they don't want to. It is a compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body. That is for those who perceive that this or other addiction can just be "thoughted to a stop" without realizing that they have not been able to accomplish that themselves. I was a compulsive enabler and couldn't think my way thru it or away from it any better that my alcoholic could think her way into sobriety. This is where program comes in to play or if you like reprogramming. One sober alcoholic working with another alcoholic or one experienced member of Al-Anon working with another also. We don't think so much as we practice. We learn how to walk the talk rather than just talk without experience.
9 years into recovery in Al-Anon my HP commences to permit me to have some answers to my own personal drinking habits and some of their consequences in my life. Yes I drank and yes I drank more it seemed than others around me friends and family. Yes I didn't fall down or stagger a whole lot after drinking a whole lot and yes I was crazy and mean; more than when I wasn't drinking. The journey started while I was a substance abuse counselor in a rehab on the West Coast. I had done many assessments and never my own. The day came when I out of curiosity as to why one of my clients was addicted and I wasn't, lead to my own anonymous assessment. The consequence of that assessment was that "if I took another drink I would die". That important information came from the head nurse of the adult rehab unit and a woman I came into Al-Anon with 9 years earlier. Answers came as to why my skin tone had been a yellowish green even up to 5 years in recovery without drinking. Another answer was that some people metabolize alcohol differently than others and are "chemically tolerant". While they seem different on the outside they are being torn apart on the insides without feeling it. Another answer came regarding my extreem anger while drinking and although we have various levels of existence; mental, physical, emotional, spiritual, they are all connected and while I may not feel physically affected by alcohol my emotional and mental states can be ravaged. Important for me was finding out about creating and perpetrating addiction. I drank when I didn't want to! I then continued to drink and the not wanting to became just a quiet voice. I could not/did not refuse many drinks. When I drank I got worse and more experienced at doing things that way. I have drank my way into toxic shock (over dose) on several occasions not even feeling drunk at the time. It wasn't water Jerry F!! It's a toxic chemical. Look at what it does to your wife!! I drank until not wanting to didn't matter anymore and that is where the whole thing came full circle...the squirrel cage. Before I stopped drinking I could not drink without having a painful hangover from the second sip of what ever it was that I was drinking (alcohol) and in the end all alcoholics drink with pain on all levels unless they stop completely one day at a time.
Any person her can check into the American Medical Association web site and then hook into their link on Alcoholism. Some will become convinced that it is a real disease and others will not continuing to rather "use" the alcoholic or addict as an excuse for why they do what they do, or feel what they feel, or think what they think, or suffer. That is our addiction; our disease using another sick person to justify our own dis-ease.
For me, recognizing that it is a disease is central to forgiveness and my own healing. I will never forget the "Aha" moment when I realized that *there is something wrong with him!* Up to then, I kept trying to make sense of his actions, and just couldn't - things would just not reconcile. When I started to look at his behaviour through the lens of mental illness, it all clicked into place.
I don't see it as an "easy out" at all. I still have the right to protect myself against the negative aspects of the disease. I still have the obligation to stop accepting unacceptable behaviour. This just frees me from hating and blaming the A - instead, I can just accept that 'what is, is".
The argument that "those with a disease choose to help themselves, and therefore this is not a disease", falls apart when we realize that this is primarily a mental illness with phsyical aspects, rather than a primarily physical one. It is not at all unusual for those with mental illness to refuse treatment and be unable to seek help.
I think it was more about my relationship with myself. After all the relationship with the A was always troubled. I think for certain the ability to detach helped. I also found that not arguing with the A helped. I don't argue any more with him and I have not had contact for 6 months. I just don't pick up the phone when he calls, I don't answer the voice mail either.
I found it difficult to detach though. I would detach pretty well some days and other days be right in there totally over involved. The more tools I used the better.
I think really embracing the three C's helped immeasurably.
I too am having difficulty with the diease concept. What's the difference with diease and addiction?
I broke up with my ex because he wanted to continue to use. He didn't even try and convence me to not leave. I guess he got tired of hiding how much he drank from me. It stil hurts. It was an issue right from the beginning, but I continued to stay. I now wish I would have left right away. The longer you stay the more it hurts. I have a hard time with not taking it personally.
I should not care, he is sick and so am i for getting in a relationship with him. My self-esteem is not so good if I am taking it personal that he did not even try and get me back. Ego right. It's probably a blessing that he didn't try because it hurts knowing that he's using and drinking everyday until he passes out most times. he doesn't go to sleep, he passes out.
I agree with Heartbroken in NJ. Sometimes I wonder because my A can choose to quit and drinking and be successful at it. He is angry, but then again, he's angry all the time anyway!! The kids and I spend so much time trying to cushion things for him, make lofe easier and we always get the crap end of it. He finds fault in everything we do and never has a positive thing to say to anyone; especially my boys. Most of the time I feel as though our spirits are broken.
My A knows that he is an alcoholic and openly admitsd to it, but says it as though it is an excuse to drink (ok, I'm an alcoholic, so that's why I drink and its ok). Bullcrap!! Sometimes I think he chooses to drink because he likes it not because he has to have it or he is controlled by it. Maybe I just haven't learned enough yet, maybe I'm stil angry-I don't know, but these are my thoughts. I could be wrong.
