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Hello everyone. I have a situation with my adult step daughter that I cannot figure out. I have been married to her father for 10 years now and during that time she has consistently treated me like the family skunk. I have stayed out of her way so that I didn't become a barrier to her relationship with her dad, which as it turns out worked pretty well for her and not so well for me. Her Dad has been guided by guilt and the fear of her abandonment and so has been highly reluctant to set boundaries with her, whether about her treatment of me or of himself. She is now married to a very active alcoholic and the mother of a 6 month old baby. She periodically gives her father and mother details of her anguish with her husband's behavior. He is pretty much stringing her along without much interest in working a program. He is on his second DWI, has been recently fired from his job for drinking there and is 2 weeks out of an inpatient program he was forced into and already drinking and driving again. I recently expressed my feelings to her in that if she wants to continue living with this situation, please do not share it with her father because it is just too painful to him to hear this and not try to advise her. (He is a recovering alcoholic himself and so not fooled by the son in law's stories.) At the end of the email, which was clear and to the point, I said that I was sorry if the email sounded angry, but I was just frustrated with the whole situation. (IE: husband does some whacko thing, daughter whines and cries about it to parents, parents try to advise her, and then are kicked to the curb. Repeat endlessly.) I received an email back full of "yelling", swearing and sarcasm. Which is not ok with me. I understand that she is a very defensive person in a lot of pain right now who is lashing out at anyone who might suggest that she take another route than the downward spiral she is on. She goes to Alanon and has a sponsor who, according to her, supports her decision to remain in this situation. All her Dad tried to do is to say, you need to protect yourself legally from the probable ramifications of his drinking and driving and consider the stressful household you are providing for your son and whether that is what you want to do. No one said to throw him out or suggested any action at all, other than setting up some systems to take care of herself if she chooses to remain in this situation. So...things are extremely strained now. She is moving into a new home she can barely afford after asking her dad and I to co-sign a loan and cough up some money for the down payment (her mother and step father gave her $54,000 and co signed the $150,000 loan), has a stressful job, and little baby and a dysfunctional spouse--enough problems for about 10 people. I have not answered her email and her father made the mistake of calling her and getting an earful about what a "bitch" I am. Over the years, but more since the baby's birth, I have continued to do small things for her and tried to create an environment that would support her relationship with her dad in some healthy way, other than his being the ATM and whipping post for her life. Mostly I have kept my mouth shut, except for a couple of occasions, and when I have talked with her I have always been very positive and supportive. Here's my question: how do I have a relationship of any kind with her since my husband wants to see his grandson from time to time and I will have to be around her and her husband and their denial? It seems to me that if I play along with her like nothing is wrong, I am tacitly supporting a lie and if we try to say anything at all, no matter how kindly and tactfully put, we get hacked across the face. I just don't know how to handle this. I should add that she lives about 4 hours from us so there isn't a whole lot necessitating contact other than monthly visits with the baby and phone calls to her Dad--she never talks to me; just emails when she gets around to it to say thanks for the most recent baby gift I've sent with her Dad. I guess my stance on this, having been through a couple of lifetimes with this disease is that I would set some limits if I were her and I would protect myself legally as much as possible. Life is too short for all of this pain to spend it with someone who isn't even there emotionally and spiritually and who isn't even trying to get well. That's my opinion and I don't think that sharing it makes me a bitch. I just, because of my opinion, cannot support her lifestyle by pretending I think it's "fabulous" (her word) because of the baby involved. If it weren't for him, hell, I'd say have at it, honey! Drive your car right into that ditch as fast as you want to, but when there's an innocent baby living with you, decisions are different. Responsibilities are different. It changes everything. I do know that I will absolutely shut up and not share my opinion ever again, probably not even if asked unless it's in a support group or something, but I just cannot accept being called names, sworn at and shouted at. What would you do?
I don't have grandbabies so I'm not a good person to say what I would do but detaching as much as I could from a situtation I have no control over would be my best guess.
Go to face to face meetings and try to keep the focus on me is also what I would hope I could do. And by the way, how cool for you that you have a sober husband, you have a program!
Keep venting as you need to also. Perhaps when you detach HP will work things out as they need to be?
All sounds too basic so I guess I have no great ESH but I do care.
One thing for sure, your step daughter is in a lot of pain and I read on here ... Hurt people, hurt people... so don't take her pain personally. Thinking of that has really helped me with alot of things I don't understand. Also knowing I can't FIX it and really taking that to heart has saved my sanity.
Detach and take care of you and your relationship with hubby.
Nothing you do or say is going to change her situation. She is going to do what she feels is best for her. I know from my perspective, I share my anguish over my A with my parents too, I know they don't like it and at times voice their opinion....but that's not what I want to hear. I just need a sounding board....someone I can talk to that won't judge me, someone to support me, right or wrong. Who better than my parents.
We have to make our own mistakes...I choose to stay with my A because I feel (at the moment) that is what is best for my children. He is a good father and a good provider for his family. That's not to say that my feelings may change in the future.
Try to detach from the situation and hopefully it will work it self out...I wish you luck.
Thank you for your replies. Two questions: 1) what is ESH? and 2) can you give me some concrete examples of how to detach? I can do this on a mental basis every day. But how do I do it when I have to be in her company? or when she decides she is going to come and visit us for a holiday and I have to graciously host her? I get lost with the down-to-earth actions that detaching implies. Can you give me some more clarity on this? Thank you!
Detaching... hmmm... well, I had the same situation of having to deal with stepdaughters and their enabling father who was full of the guilt, etc. And them treating me badly, no respect. Yup, could really relate to a lot of what you said.
One day I said to an alanon friend, I guess I just have to accept her (stepdaughter) for who she is and just love her without trying to control or change her behaviors. My friend replied, thats detachment with love. Aha! Lightbulb moment for me.
Things you can do? Well, we have some good phrases we use here when someone is ranting... one of which is "I'm sorry you feel that way" after which we can just walk away (instead of remaining there to be ranted at). Picture this: you are tossing a ball (aka words) back and forth...well that could go on and on... but if you decide to drop the ball - game ends. So be polite, but don't toss the ball back.
I found it very important to stay out of the relationship between daughter and father. Life was simpler that way. And it gave her no fuel to complain. What I would do is talk with my husband about these guilt feelings. Where they stemmed from, why he still has them, do they help or hurt the situation, are they rightfully his to carry? As parents we all make mistakes, but we do the best we know how to at the time. To allow the kids to use that guilt against us when they are now adults... well, all that does is allow the child to not have to take responsibility for their own decisions and actions now. They have the same choice we do - decide to be responsible for self and make our life better, or decide to blame others and remain miserable. I told my own adult son that a while back when he was ranting at me. He took those words to heart and went about working on himself and is a pretty nice guy now.
Glad you are here. Take care.
Kis
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Let your light shine in the darkness. "I can't just bring my mind to meetings...I must also bring my heart."
I can tell you what I did after listening, learning and practicing what the winners were doing in this program. I got on the program and didn't let anything take me off of it. This program works and my program (then) didn't.
I heard that if I did the same things over and over again I would get the same results so I had to change what I was doing. I didn't offer opinions when I wasn't invited to. I asked if they wanted my input...if they didn't I didn't. If they did I prefaced what I said with, "For me..." and then shut up when I was finished. If they wanted more we discussed if not we didn't. I was okay with that change. I was okay with turning all situations over to God as I understood God.
I accepted that I was an outsider in the family and my position of importance and power was only speculation and often time that was wrong. I just decided that being a "good" person in this group was good enough and I didn't have to pretend to be something I wasn't. I stopped trying to have my spouse stand up for me and give me importance because she was in the problem and a part of the problem as others in the family saw it. I can stand on my own two feet and don't need anyone else to define me today.
I found the answer to the question why can't I just stop causing my self problems? Most of the answers were related to ego and pride. Especially when it comes to the disease of alcoholism and drug addiction I have the answers to nothing if another person is involved. I never have and after 29+ years of recovery I am convinced I never had or will have solutions for others outside of myself. I sponsor others in this program and the other...I don't take hostages. When they don't follow thru I already know the consequences for them and I know the consequences for me if I try to exert my "will". "Thy will be done" refers to my HP me I'm powerless. Make suggestions when asked for input or go do something else without worry.
I learned to be a good listener and mostly I listen with my eyes. I trust what I see more than what I hear especially in the insanity of alcoholism. Body language is 57% or more of all communications. This rule helps me alot.
I don't judge others personally or as a group...what they say or what they do, how they express themselves or the language they use. That is all about my value systems. Before I came into recovery I violated my own value systems and was apalled by it. Then I learned that I cannot force another to live according to my value systems. What is most important is that I and only I stay on that trail. I have not been perfect at it.
There's lots more and you didn't get to where you are at overnight so it will take time and a ton of willingness to come out of the chaos you find yourself in and of course honest effort. The miracles come from looking honestly at yourself and finding out what part you are playing in the problems that are your life. The miracles come after,"...completely abandoning your self to God as your understand God." Your recovering alcoholic might be able to recite this part of the AA philosophy to you if you don't already know it.
"This is a spritual program...only a spiritual program..." Fr. Martin a huge friend of AA and a recoverying man himself.
You can get out of the swamp you find yourself in when ever you are willing to reach out beyond the family for real change. No reason for you to go down with the ship.
Keep coming back and practice, practice, practice...(((((hugs)))))
Dear Min, Just home from my meeting here in Scotland. I was struck at how much detail there was in your request for guidance, about what everyone is doing in the swamp of untreated alcoholism. Keep it simple. 1st step, powerless over people,places and things. His guilt,his daughter. You do not have to accept unacceptable behaviour, you cannot talk to a closed mind.Step aside, Let Go Let God. Just pray for this sick girl and her little baby. Stick with the winners. To do the same thing repeatedly and expect a different outcome is an act of insanity.Many many tools to help you in this programme of recovery, one day at a time. The only person you can change is yourself. Sometimes when things have become chaotic, easy does it. lv mags
Thank you all for your replies. The more I read, the clearer it gets. The truth is that I see myself in this girl and her choices and I know the outcome if things remain as they seem to be remaining. I cannot imagine a more hideous feeling that knowing that I did a seriously lousy job of parenting my 3 kids, that I loved so very much. Thinking I was so smart--hah--I dragged them through hell. So when seeing someone else dancing along that cliff with a thousand foot drop, it makes me nervous. But I have learned my lesson. I'm out of it. I told my husband that if he wants to get into it with her, it's his daughter and his decision, but I really don't want to jaw about it with him ad nauseum any more. He picks the behaviour, he picks the consequences. I just can't be involved anymore. Not that I was wanted anyway, you understand!! I also will have to keep away from her as much as I can since I just don't really like her very much anyway. We are just very different people and honestly I don't think she gives a hoot about me either. I guess the biggest problem has been me trying to stop the pain in my own life that her father kept throwing in front of me. Half of the stuff he says he should never have told me. Like, I don't need to know that she called me a bitch to him. He can just keep that inflammatory stuff to himself. So my boundary is to end the talking about her life. And just so you know, she will NEVER ask for my advice, so I don't have to worry about giving it anymore. Plus my own daughter told me last night she had an abnormal exam and it showed pre-cancerous cells, so I have enough to be concerned about especially if this turns into a real problem. And I am worried about someone who thinks I'm a hangnail in their life? Now who is really crazy?! Thanks again everyone!!
Your last question "So who is crazy". I'm absolutely sure I was before Al-Anon. I think most members were a little crazy, mixed up, and searching for answers when the walked through the doors of Al-Anon that first time. I guarantee you I was. Funny thing . I was crazy enough to believe I knew all the right things to do. After all I was a fixer. Most of us are. Alcoholics all have the same traits. Well, so do all of us Al-Anoners. We are not selfish we are givers. We are not takers we are care givers. We try to build instead of destroy. And on and on. My AW and I were talking last week and something came up about someone being crazy, I really forget how the conversation started. Anyway she said, that in AA they talk all the time about how we Al-Anoners are crazier than they are. She was being funny, and it was O.K. with me. But, I could not resist a quick come back (felt I had to take up for US). I told her she was exactly right, We are craizer than they are, but for a good reason. Bottom line we all need Al-Anon in our lives, You need it in your life. It will not solve all your problems, but it will make your life better than you can ever imagine. Make a commitment, try face to face meetings. There is a saying in Al-Anon, try 6 or 8 meeting and if you don't think it helped you, Al-Anon will gladly refund your misery. RLC
dear min, glad things are a bit clearer for you, it was the fog of alcoholism, you just got a bit lost. Start putting the work into recovery, yours, to-day is too precious to waste. Sometimes we get a glimpse of our own past behaviour through others, just another lesson to learn. Recovery is the opportunity to live on a higher level, get the steps and climb up. Let the person in, you let the sickness in and you become sick. Hope your own daughter does ok. I believe a Higher Power sends things to help us get things into perspective and the health of your girl is more important than the madness of other peoples' self created problems. You didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it. With your girl, maybe this is an opportunity to make amends and support her while she goes for her check ups. Sometimes when there is nothing you can do, it's enough just to love someone. You go girl! lv m
Hey, RLC I loved your last remark! Thank God for humor in this world.
I am actually not new to Alanon or codependent groups. I just got away from it for a little while and got caught up in this whirlwind of craziness. One of the hallmarks of an addicted person is kicking the people who love you away and becoming devotedly attached to those who don't, and hanging on to the nearly always futile hope that someone who is consumed with addiction is going to magically wake up some day and realize what a saint you are and appreciate you and you can then live happily ever after. I have seen on these boards and heard at meetings of people who eventually ended these kinds of relationships but what I have never seen in someone saying, Oh what a big mistake I made in leaving this addiction-centered "relationship"--I wish I could go back." Never seen it.
And on a seredipitous note, as I was hanging miniblinds last night and obsessing about "woulda, coulda, shoulda" (one of my favorite themes) I hear on XM radio this little song that goes, "save yourself. You can't save everyone, so save yourself..." Now I ask you, if that wasn't HP pretty much yelling at me, what was it? I came in and turned up the volume and soaked it all in, with gratitude and a bit of a giggle.
At any rate, I wrote an email and apologized for any upset, tried to clarify in very few words what I meant in the kindest language possible, and said several times that my only concern was for her welfare and that I would not interfere again, apologized again and signed off. I am at peace with it. Then I called my husband and told him that he could not tell me anything else about her life except the most mundane things, such as she got promoted at her job or she bought a new sofa, but not to tell me the troubling things and especially not to tell me the nasty things she says to him about me. No, no, no. In my heart I have forgiven her for her hurtful behavior, knowing that it is the result of her own pain, but I have also learned to keep a wide berth lest I get clawed again. The best way to do that is to get interested and excited about my own life. Same way I quit smoking 24 years ago---just don't let my mind go there, because it's a bad part of town.
As for my own adult children, they are kind and considerate, wonderful people. It would almost be easier if they were a bunch of jerks, but no, they are people I am proud of. (In spite of my blunders.)
I had an image come to mind of Christ dragging his cross to the hill and the whole way he was saying, "Damn! This thing is friggin heavy. Why the hell did my HP put me through this? I don't deserve this crap! I mean, am I not cool? Do I not have cool friends and did I not whip up miracles? Life really sucks!" As ridiculous as that sounds, I guess it's just as foolish for me to complain about my own situation. What I learned from Eckhart Tolle is quit resisting what is, and get on with the business of living. So I am off to work on a painting and breathe this heavenly summer air and get down on my knees and thank HP for the bucket-load of good things in my life, instead of doing the addict thing of looking obsessively at the miniscule things that are not what I want. Stinking thinking, I guess it's called. I tell you what, the people who took the time to respond to my emails just bring me to tears of appreciation and I cannot think you all enough. What a priceless gift.
