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my A. boyfriend is leaving me. or then again, he's not. i am so confused!!! he's always used "i'm leaving" more as a communication technique rather than a real statement of ending the relationship. problems with intimacy and commitment, he's said. for all the years we've been together he's said he's leaving, sometimes over the tiniest things! he's been clean and sober 23 years now, but i've learned here that doesn't mean he'll behave soberly.
last night he said he was leaving again, and he says it's real - again. he even started packing a box. we talked for a long time, but it his kind of discussion - he says A, then he says B, A and B contradict each other and i ask him for clarification, he denies he said B, or doesn't remember saying A, or any variation of pure crazymaking! then he says i'm clueless, i just don't get it, i never listen
there are no Al-Anon meetings in my area, so i'm ever grateful for this board, even if i read far more than i share. i didn't realize how much he had isolated me until i started looking around for support. CodA meets here once a week but i haven't been able get rides to it (no car) though i will keep trying. i feel so desparate to talk to someone, but i've lost several friends since i met him, i'm disabled and the internet is my window to the world and he got upset that i was spending "so much time" (even 1 night a week) talking to my good online friends. even my neighbors are his friends because he smokes and is outside talking to them so often. i say hello to them but they just look at me oddly and then ignore me, so i have no idea what he's said to them. i'm very shy, but i'm going to keep reaching out because i feel i'll go insane if i don't talk to someone.
i wish i could post saying i'll be strong and be fine without him but i know that's not true. the only time i've felt this horribly was when my mom died! even though i've been divorced more than once, it was mutual, we were friends and it never really "just ended" they were gentle partings. i'm 41 and no one has ever broken up with me or left me, so i don't even know how to act or be or think in a break-up! i'm old enough to know that i won't die, my life will go on without him, perhaps i'll even be better off without him. but knowing that doesn't help my heart at all :( i'm calling around for a counselor that takes Medicare who doesn't have large co-pays. i have a fixed income, when my boyfriend was down on his luck i even supported him though.
my main worry today is my 3-1/2 yr old daughter. she loves him so very much, and he's told her he considers her to be family. he's held Native American ceremonies saying that she and i were his family and he'd take care of us, be with us, forever. i have no idea how to tell her he's leaving, or what it means, and she's sensitive and perceptive enough to know when i'm sad even though i hold it in, i'm so afraid she'll be hurt in this, i *know* she'll be hurt even though i'll do everything i can. and i know she'll ask me "where's daddy-N.?" quite often and just thinking that, i break down again.
i can't stop crying, every little thing sets me off. i'm a mellow person, so anxiety symptoms really strange, painful, i try to deep breathe, meditate, and/or pray to get through it but for some reason even those things are painful now.
plus, he may not be leaving, he says. if we can find a couple's counselor that'll take Medicare or Medicaid. my A is in therapy, diagnosed with clinical depression - yet weaned off his meds by himself, even though it's only a few months since he attempted suicide. so often he'll use his counselor as an invisible friend in the room, he says things like "i told my counselor how you act and he said you're probably have borderline personality" or "wait until i tell my counselor about this! he's going to laugh at you!" etc. my A. used to BE a counselor, so i don't understand why he does this, why wouldn't he realize it's not a valid way of communicating.
he says the main reason for leaving is that i never listen to him, even though i listen very closely and even journal to help me remember, he says i make things up. i start off *knowing* what he said, by the end of the argument he'll have me convinced i never listened to him and i'm stupid and clueless. but then he'll say he's leaving so i'll be better off without him, for my own good, he's no good for anyone, etc. then he'll say he can't stand being around me, calls me names, swears and yells and rants. the good times are DAMN GOOD times, which has helped me be with him all this time. last night he said we've never had really good times, that crushed me, i think back to ever nice thing he's said and done, all the loving things, all the "forever" and i feel like he's been lying to me the whole time - or is he only lying now???
i'm so confused, i'm sorry for the rambling post. not sure how else to communicate right now but "just keep talking" until i can make some sense of what's going on. thank you very much for listening!
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To know the darkness is to love the light, to welcome dawn and fear the coming night.
I can definitely relate. One of my biggest issues was and still is the abandonment issue. Labels are just labels. We can all label every single behavior dysfunctional. Of course I am dysfunctional since I came from a completely out there environment.
For me personally I was very very dependent on the A. For many reasons (I'm sure they were all not malicious) he encouraged that and alternately hated it. I felt absolutely totally stuck in the relationship.
The A felt totally threatened and upset by my use of support on line. He hated that I made friends. He wanted me isolated and dependent on him.
Breaking down all this took me a lot of time. Detaching was huge for me. The A could use abandonment as a real card to manipulate me. Eventually over time I fashioned a plan b. Last year I left the A for a long time I still had contact with him was still incredibly involved with him, fused in many ways. Then after practising detachment rigorously I began to focus on me.
I'm not telling a wonderful story about my life being wonderful now. I have a hard life that is far from great, at the same time I'm no longer "slave" to abandonment issues. I no longer speak to the A, not because I particularly hate him but I readily acknowledge his main concern is and was always himself and he had no concern or want to have a reciprocal relationship. Reciprocity is what counts for me.
Dealing with an A, leaving an A, managing one's reactions around an A are difficult. Like you I thought he had maligned me to everyone. Who knows if he did, probably. The issue is that I had no control over that, only how I reacted, didnt' over react and dealt with where I was. I still struggle sometimes tremendously but the tools I learned in al anon help enormously.
You know, you said he "used to be" a counselor. Just wondering why he isn't anymore??? Either he didn't learn anything in counseling school or he's using everything he did learn to manipulate you. That crazymaking and isolating is ABSOLUTELY emotional abuse and it sounds like you have been living with it for a long time. I wouldn't tell your daughter anything until he actually leaves since it seems to be so up in the air. I'm just wondering why are YOU waiting for him to go? You have choices and decisions in this too.
I'm so sorry you are hurting. I understand the issues you have with abandonment as well. This was very hard for me, too.
My A acted very differently than yours, but the feelings were many the same. 'Just keep talking' is good. Don't hold it in. Getting it out really does help. Also let yourself cry. You need to let out the grief and pain. It's ok. It hurts like crazy to deal with this disease.
For me over time, as I let it out by talking, writing, and letting myself cry when I needed to, I gained clarity. All the lies and flip flops are designed to keep us feeling confused and crazy. This is manipulation to keep us in line. We can't think when we are confused and crazy. Refering to his counseler laughing at you is designed to make you feel inferior and stupid, more manipulation. Isolation is dangerous as it allows our thinking to be further distorted until we can't remember how normal people think. All we know is the craziness that we are bombarded with every day.
It is slow, but it does get better. Keep reaching out. You do need support and we are here for you.
In recovery,
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~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
I don't understand it but mine has always done it too!! Real in your face kind of ways- said it in frount of over 200 people one time. " I don't know what I want in life but IT MIGHT NOT BE YOU!!" Then acts all sweet like he is the best most loving guy in the world but never unsays it to ME or others- they just get to think he's great for staying with such a boring jealous controlling worthless, less than nothing's nothing thing- not even person.
Power? Control? don't know don't care at the moment. Feel bitter and not "glad" at all!! Whatever it is it works. I've seen his Mom do it but not this severe- but she does it to her kids when they challenge her or stand up to her and they have learned it well. He won't tell her no about anything EVER and believe me she makes some real demands.
It's been over 3 years since my BF thew this little tid bit in my face ( might not want you) and all he has ever said in unrelated times is "I want you" " I love you" never an explaination as to why he would take the only time we ever expressed our feelings openly to declare before 200 other people that I don't matter. Makes matters worse he teamed up with another female to rub it in my face in frount of all these people. They sat alone and talked and visited like she was all that and he ignored me. SHE even HUNG on his truck door in the parking lot like a teenager! He indicated I was pretty enough to go find others to talk to and if I wasn't so insecure it wouldn't matter and he felt sorry for her EXCUSE used to hurt me. I think the fact that she was overweight and no one really seemed to enjoy being around her only was used to make him look like even more of the "nice guy". Did I mention she was mean? They would do that thing of not talking in frount of me and just smile and laugh with eachother. And she made it clear by contacting him over and over and over behind my back and he never told her to go away. He never really returned her calls but never told her to stop either. Kinda makes it all that more flatering for him huh and makes it all that more insulting to me too!! I don't matter enough for him to respect me.
Then no real apology... they stay as a "gift" as if to remind us we are really not worth it at all but because they are so "good" they will stay as a "gift" to the worthless piece of "xxxx" we are!
The more I stay the more I try to talk or understand or give him an opportunity to apologize by saying I'll accept anythlng just explain it to me the more power and control he has, he is one sick "xxxx"!! I wouldn't want to hurt a stranger this much!! It's like he has all the power and I have NOTHING to say about anything. When I say enough of this and say I want him to leave due to not explaining he just stays like I said NOTHING or finds some other semi unrealated thing to bring up to argue about to change the subject. I hate this "nice" guy. He is the meanest "nice" guy ever. Probably the poster child for passive aggressive behavior- cuze I don't even see it coming. Oh and all this gets defined as me being insecure!! - Best icing on the cake ever!!
First I invite you to attend meeting here online in our chatroom. We encourage people to attend face to face meetings when possible, but the online meetings here are great and have a lot of recovery in them. You can get to the room from this page up at the top. Here is the schedule: 9 AM EST Mon-Fri 9 PM EST Mon-Sat 10 AM EST Sat & Sun 7 PM EST Sunday
Just a thought maybe this threat to leave is a manipulation. To get you to react in a certain way, hmmmm maybe to accept the blame for thigns that are not even yours to own. I did that for many years. The thing is when I stoped accepting blame that wasn't mine the manupulations changed, and when I caught onto those it cahnged again. But the important thing for me was to just own my choices and actions.
Several times my "A" told me that he told me something when I knew that he didn't. I learned to say, you know you may be right. And it stopped a fight.
Keep coming back and know that you are not alone.
Yours in recovery, Mandy
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"We are not punished for our unforgiveness, we are punished by it" Jim Stovall
When my AH threw threats at me that he was going to leave, I recognized them for what they were - EMPTY threats. Why? Because that is classic co-dependent tactics. Stuff I've done in the past myself. I knew exactly what he wanted from me - he wanted the whole "Noooo! Wait! I'm sorry, don't leave! Let's talk about this, okay?" stuff.
It really upset him and threw him for a loop when I just kind of sat there looking helpless but not arguing with him about leaving, just a quiet "If it makes you feel more comfortable..." and that was it.
Fine. Leave. That's how I felt. He actually did leave - went to stay at a hotel. Called me and hung up on me several times that night. Left me ridiculous messages that he was flying away to Las Vegas. All tactics to spark a reaction out of me.
It did me a load of good to not play into his game of arguing and begging him not to leave.
I still feel to this day if he ever threatens that again, I'll not try to stop him.
Remember - even trying to get them to discuss something with you is a control tactic on your end. And remember, too, how futile it can be, arguing with an A - even a sober A.
You just take care of you.
I really hope you can at least get to the live online meetings. Face-to-face meetings are just soo much better. I'm sorry you're not in a position to be able to get to any.
And watch out for the gaslighting he does with the telling you one thing and then denying having ever told you that when questioned about it later.
If it helps you, keep a private log somewhere where you can keep track of the things he's said to you so you don't feel like you're losing your mind. Our A's are masters at that. My A still denies ever having told me certain things... it's always "I don't remember saying that." If I had a dollar for every time he said that to me...
But now I'm learning it's useless to even bring up things he's said to me in the past that will contradict what he's currently saying to me. I know he'll always go the "play dumb" route, so it's just a waste of time for me to even bother. I just let him ramble on and kind of look at him in a detached way, silently thinking to myself "hmmm... he's really caught in the disease right now." and leave it at that.
reading all the replies so far, and i am so stunned that so many other A's are so similar! i try to understand it, i really do. i promised myself, and him, that i would learn about the disease and learn to live around it, and i have tried so, so hard to do that. to call his bluff when he makes a threat. to not engage with him when he starts the crazymaking, to take time-outs. to reply only with "what do you hope to achieve by saying that?" or "i understand you feel that way" and so on. i've practiced detachment so much that he told me i should have a "black belt in Al-Anon" even though i'm truly inexperienced with it, i believe. i figure it's like learning to live with someone from a totally different culture or religion, i can have acceptance and tolerance. except sometimes it's like i'm living with an alien from another planet!
oh, he was a drug and alcohol counselor. it was a combination of overwork/underpay, and disillusionment when he saw fraud and abuse in the office and couldn't stop it no how high up he went in reporting it. from what i understand he was going to go back to school to finish his degree and become just a regular counselor, but he had a vicious divorce and his ex screwed him financially. is any of this true? i have no idea. but it seems like everyone in town knows him, either as a co-worker or a former client. so i tend to believe him on this. all that being said - i know that mental health professionals sometimes have the worst relationships!
he hasn't apologized for any of the cruel things he's said the last few days (we talked tonight for a long time). i asked him about the 10th step ... if he has 23 years recovery, why doesn't he practice the 10th step in our relationship?
the first thing i said last night after he said "i'm leaving" is "ok, go ahead." he didn't get emotional about that, more like he turned to stone. last thing he said to me tonight is that he still wants to work it out in counseling, living here platonically unless that becomes impossible.
the apology thing really is at the forefront of my mind, because when he does apologize he says "i'm sorry if ______" or "i'm sorry but _______" which negates the apology, for me. i've told him so directly that conditional apologies are not acceptable to me, i believe in blunt, honest communication. he takes that to mean that i want him to grovel at my feet and beg for forgiveness for every mistake he makes! i say "no, i don't mean that at all" but he just goes on with what he believes my agenda to be, rather than what i say it is.
it makes NO sense to me for a human being not to apologize, even if it's a simple "i'm sorry" and nothing else. especially in a loving relationship, you tell someone you want to be with them forever, how much you love them, yet it's inevitable there are going to be clashes and arguments and mistakes made ... why not apologize and move on, get back to the love and the good times?
i'm stuck on the apology thing because of his statement last night, when i said i felt hurt by his malicious words, and he replied "ohhh, you haven't seen malicious yet!!" - i told him directly that i felt threatened by what he said, thati feel scared he will mess with my stuff, and can he please reassure me that he won't do that. he said he wouldn't do it, but he won't apologize, because he "did nothing wrong."
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i feel like i'm going absolutely crazy!!!!!! but thanking my HP this board is here, and i hope to get to the chat room tomorrow night. my heart is breaking because i love this beautiful, complicated person, for who he is, as he is, and i know, *KNOW* that i can't ask him to change, i can't change him, i have to sit and watch him spiral down into deep depression, i have to watch him be his own worst enemy and i can't help him. but i love him so much, i fell in love with who he is inside and out, even at his worst i look at him and feel love and prayers in my heart for him, so damaged and fragile. i don't pity him. just plain old love him.
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To know the darkness is to love the light, to welcome dawn and fear the coming night.
Yep, helped me alot the first few times I realized other people were going through same things. I was "blown away" to discover this " want you, don't want you" is an ism. Not doing too well today with "program" and all. Maybe I'll just put one foot before the other today and hope tomorrow is better". I dont' care today that it's an ism just feel like I deserve better. HP loves me, I"ll just keep repeating that!
