The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I am married to an alcoholic who is presently in an intensive rehab provided by the Department of Corrections - a special program for DUI felonly offenders. He is due to be released soon, coming home to family and job, under the watch of probation.
He recently asked what he could do to make our marriage better and I told him that all I ask is that he abides by his terms of probation, that he does not push the limits or try to sneak under the radar by driving or anything else. He replied that his recovery is HIS RECOVERY and that how he goes about it is HIS BUSINESS and that he will do what he sees fit...
I am tired of the years of drinking, drugging, sneaking, lying, fighting and all of the nonsense. I told him that if he violates any terms of his probation our marriage is over. I am done. Life is too short to live with someone who will not make good choices. I have the right to say "enough". I have the right to move on. I am terribly grieved, but I am no longer fearful of living without him or what he may do if I leave.
So completely reasonable Griz!!! Just gotta say, SO TOTALLY REASONABLE! I know how you feel and while I am not ready to choose yet, you are and you are right when you say that life is too short. One of the things I have learned in this program is that I HAVE LIMITS. I am human. there is only so much I can do and there is also only so much Ii can take. I deserve to live in peace and harmony and not be driven to the limit of my endurance. I matter. My quality of life matters. So, you sound quite reasonable to me. Hugs, J.
I think, as far as "reasonableness" is concerned, that is an individual choice.... I would encourage you to read up on setting "boundaries" that are for you and your needs/serenity/peace of mind, etc....
I DO know that most A's don't really hear our words, and we are often telling them what we are "going to do", but don't always follow through.... The old Al-Anon saying of "do what you mean, and mean what you say" is very applicable here.
For what it's worth, your hubby's response to your answer does not give me a good feeling that he is very ready for "working on your marriage", let alone working on his own recovery and self. True, it IS his recovery, but if he was serious about wanting to know what he could do to help right now, I don't think he'd react in the way he did.... Just my opinion...
Take care, and best of luck
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
no i don't think it's unreasonable but you have to be prepared to follow through if you say you will do something. how many times have you said this before? I agree with Tom that the reaction was indicative of I'm gonna do whatever I want .... But who's to say? I hope you find a face to face meeting near you and get into a group of others who totally understand where you're coming from!
When he asked me what he could do for the marriage, I thought starting with observing terms of probation would be the step in the right direction.
His response made me very sad. In the past I have said "this is it", but always in a state of extreme emotion with no way to follow through on my declaration. This time is different. I have had time to think. I have been supporting the kids and myself for the past 5 months and we are doing okay. I see now that I am capable of providing for children and myself and my fears of not being able to go it alone have left. One of the saddest things for me, at this point, is realizing that he doesn't realize where I am at in this anymore. He has been able to do what he does getting predictable reactions from me and has become very comfortable in his role (I should say, my role!!). The past several months have allowed me to examine myself, my behaviors, my motives, my part in all of this and I have come to a place where I am able to let go. Not with malice, but resignation. It honestly breaks my heart to know that he doesn't fully realized that I have changed and that I am no longer controlled by fear.
This is new for me.
I appreciate your wisdom, experience, encouragement, and suggestions!
I think so long as you know you're going to be fine no matter what your AH does, then you're in the right place.
It is not unreasonable to desire those things from your AH. All of us deserve to be happy and have a spouse who's there for us and the family and not lost under the disease of alcoholism.
But I agree - be prepared to pack your crap and leave if he starts drinking. If there's any part of you that's not sure you can do it, then holding that threat over your AH's head is simply another method of trying to control the disease and does nothing - NOTHING - for your recovery or his.
I'm starting to learn that when I draw boundaries, I need to keep them quietly to myself and act on them when necessary. But threatening my AH doesn't do anything for me or him. I'm even now working on quietly re-assessing and setting my boundaries after I had vocally set them before and realized that my vocalization of my boundaries was making me MISERABLE.
I almost want to say if you're ready to leave now - then why not leave? Why hang around? What's the payoff for you?
I'm not advising you take ANY route, but to think more about your motives. Keep going to Al-anon meetings. Keep working the steps. Keep in touch with your sponsor (and if you haven't got one - get one!)
Your AH should not have asked you what you wanted if he wasn't ready to hear it. That was his mistake, and he's not in a humble enough place right now to take your threat and "turn the other cheek". His response was a threatening response to your threat.
That rope is in both of your hands right now. One of you is pulling and so is the other. Who's going to drop the rope and stop the war?
There is a saying in Al anon. Say what you mean but don't say it mean.
Boundaries are the hard stuff many of us struggle with. I think for me the actions speak louder than words. Speaking as someone who lived with an active A I did plenty of saying I mean it and didn't.
Then I made a plan b and left him, I still was in contact with him.
I'm not sure what a plan b would be for you, divorce, separation, what.
I do know that when I made one I had no idea what it meant really but I knew I could not go on as before.
I think also many many many of us live in less than ideal situations. I left the A I still struggle tremendously. How do I set limits around that. I do it daily. I do make compromises sure. I also set goals for myself.
I am sure this time of the A returning to the home will be stressful how could it not be? I know this board has helped me tremendously. I come here daily and basically live eat and sleep here. I say that as someone who acknowledges leaving the A was just a small part of my issues.
I have done more than my fair share of damage in the relationship - I will own that. Having said that, I can honestly say that I was as gentle and clear as possible when saying that I needed him to observe his probation without breaking the rules. I tried to state it as gently and directly. I did say that failing to comply with the probation terms would end the marriage and I am ready to move out if it comes to that.
Why don't I just move out now? What am I waiting for? I want this to work. I still hope for change. I said I would leave if he violates the probation. Maybe between our conversation yesterday and the time he comes home he will have yield to the law... and maybe I am just a fool.
I am going to a meeting tonight and I am looking for a sponsor...
Early recovery is pretty hard, and not really all that indicative of what may or may not come later. My suggestion would be to get involved in your own recovery - there are a lot of unhealthy habits you've learned over the years of living with his drinking, if you are like the rest of us. Then, indeed, he can focus on his recovery, you can focus on yours, and the two or you can take stock every now and then. And, of course, if he does not intend to take recovery seriously, your program will help you get some clarity about exactly what you want to do, and what is in your best interests.
Even if he really does embrace recovery, it's no walk in the park. He's been drinking most of his life, most likely, and doesn't know any other way to be. The support of other people who've been there will help you no matter what you choose to do, and no matter what HE does.
Welcome and thanks for your share. I think we all get to the end and say enough is enough. What has helped me is Alanon telling me to focus on myself. Doing or not doing things because of or inspite of him. Like setting goals that are meaningful to me whether I am with him or not, whether he works a program or not. Then when I make a choice it gives me the personal power to say it was a choice for me. Hard to do sometimes.
What you are asking is not unreasonable at all. Problem is, most of the time, what seems reasonable to us does not seem reasonable to the A's. Hopefully you can get some help for yourself. He is going to do whatever he is going to do. Remember you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it. ( The 3 C's of Alanon)
In my own situation, though I have decided to stay with my AH, I have seen many broken and empty promises over the years. When I work my program, I am happiest with my life regardless of what he does. One day at a time.
Good Luck to You.
Claudia
__________________
A person's a person no matter how small --Dr Suess
My second marriage was to a seasoned member of the department of corrections. He had just gotten out of the pen after serving time on armed robbery charges when I met him.
I spent 5 years of insanity with him.
If nothing changes, nothing changes. He was always trying to figure out ways to beat the system.
He was buried last year at the age of 47, and had died from AIDS.
Some never get it.
__________________
"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson
I am glad you found us. This is a start...just a starting place toward recovery...your own. What your spouse said about his recovery being his business is correct as your's is your business also. Both paths lead in the same direction if working "THE" program is most important. If either of you continue to work "YOUR" program meaning the one that you have been on before coming here it will result usually in different directions. Both programs (if his is AA) are 12 step (same) 12 tradition (same) spiritual model program (reliance on a power greater than ourselves which motivates us toward positive growth and change resulting in a very desirable life experience.)
You and He have to start somewhere and in the same experience without comparison or competition has more promise than not. You do your own. You keep your focus on doing your own (don't look over his shoulder or make any comments on his progress or lack of) you get your own HP and your own Sponsor and you detach from any reference he may have to your success or lack thereof. Detatchment is an art form. Learn about it, practice it and reap the benefits of it.
Your want is reasonable only because it is reasonable for people to have desires; not because your partner is either one thing or another and agrees or disagrees. Desires are reasonable and natural. He's got his own...you have yours; natural and okay. How I went after getting my desires met is a different matter and that is what program is about.
Suggestion? Take your time. Use the slogan Easy does it here. Keep and open mind...listen, listen, listen and ask for feedback and clarification if you don't get it right away. Practice, Practice, Practice the steps with patience and a good sponsor. Just don't get any sponsor...sit and listen to the ones who are qualified; those who have been in for a while and walk the talk. They have a HP (Higher Power) and won't force it on you. They have a sponsor and work with that sponsor to help themselves and others. They have a deep understanding of the steps and how the steps work in their lives and can pass that information on with ease. They don't guess recovery...they know recovery and it will show. Look around for several if you can because a sponsor candidate can turn you down for whatever reason and if they do you will want to have backups. When you find a good one...you have struck gold that you can hold for years to come if all things remain equal and fortune is with you both.
I hope for you the availability of several meeting you can get to in your area. I hope Alateen is also available for the teenage relatives of alcoholics and if it isn't then Al-Anon is available for them also. They are parts of the Al-Anon Family Groups.
Your Alcoholic is up against it now. The Dpartment of Corrections is a bigger and more meaningful spouse to him than you are. If he drinks again your leaving is of little consequence when he considers being incarcerated for a long stay. They are actively investing in his life right now and they want a positive payback more than you want your dream marriage and family. He makes it or he's a captive. God is that a real threat or what?
The disease doesn't care; If you have a dream or not; If he is in forced sobriety; If there are children; If you both want the marriage to work or not. You will never ever see something more cunning, powerful and baffling than the disease of alcoholism. I have seen it take the lives of innocent victims who were not even aware that they were loosing their life as it worked.
This is your best right choice coming from someone who also was faced making it and then accepting that I had to make it or loose my own life while being very very sick. Give this program your best and most focused attention for the next 90 days and let your alcoholic make the decision of what is best for himself. HP will be on hand for your both bet on that. HP is on hand for you now just as this family is. You can bet on that also.
Thank you for all the experience and wisdom you have shared. I have been alone with this for a long time (by choice and out of stubborness and ignorance!). I has been a blessing to begin going to Al-Anon again and being able to post here and read through other posts.. I am learning so much about... myself.
My husband has not been drinking for 3 years. He was arrested for felony DUI in February 2004 and his trial date, put off many times, finally came to pass June 2006 and he didn't appear. He felt he had been punished enough and that the prosecution was malicious and he decided not to appear for the trial. A warrant for his arrest was issued. He was arrested 11 months later - he was driving, speeding, the officer pulled him over and was ready to let him go with a warning, but arrested him when he ran his information. He was arrested for bail jumping. He was finally sentenced in September and sent to the DOC to complete his 6 month rehab.
He doesn't drink. Prior to being put into the DOC rehab, had not gone to AA, so NOT in any kind of recovery.
A couple of his DUI's were because I called the police and informed them he was driving around drunk. Those were hard calls to make, but I felt I had to do it - if someone's spouse killed my loved one and they knew that someone was DUI and didn't report it... I would be doubly devastated and FURIOUS!!!
Though he is no longer drinking... it's still insane.
