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I do not like birthdays or anything associated with them. Has nothing to do with aging, but it is an emotional thing for me because of my childhood issues. Anyhow, my daughter just turned 11 and the celebrating has come to an end (finally!) with a slumber party. Thank goodness! I was soooo resistant, but my daughter was soooo persistant, and then I realized that not only was it the cheapest way to go, but it may be the last time we actually have a home with space for it. So, I limited the number and held firm despite some protest (yay for me!). We had 5 girls total and it was wonderful. Rootbeer floats in the hot tub, mud masks and ice cream sundaes in the middle of the night.... fun, fun! We did move the clocks forward this morning, so I know there will be a bunch of tired grumpy girls, but they made a great memory.
Yesterday afternoon when the party was just getting started, all the kids were upstairs. I was sitting at the table trying to find a video tape and all was very peaceful and quiet. My ah was sitting behind me and staring out over the backyard. My son had his skateboard ramp up and the sun was starting to go down over the vineyard. We were quiet, as I had nothing so say to him, nor he to me. Of course, I want to believe he was feeling nostalgic and sad about everything, knowing full well I have no idea what goes in his head. Finally, he asked if I minded if he went on a walk. Thank goodness, please do!
Anyhow, I wonder if there is someway I could put a boundary up that says he needs to be happy when he is in my house. Man, the guy is depressing! Granted, I know he has a lot to be depressed about - chronic back pain, early sobriety, living an unfaithful life, not being the man he wanted to be, hurting his family, losing respect of those arouind him, seeing his dream dissolve, it goes on and on, but I can't stand it! I know he fakes it every day at work and fakes it most of the time with the kids. Or, maybe it's good that he isn't "happy" so I don't get my emotions all caught up in what it all means.
I think I am slowly realizing that he will never be the man I thought I married nor pretended to be living a happy life with. Man, that has been a tough one to swallow. I know that money does not buy happiness, but I sure think it could make the path a bit easier. I see all I have worked for, my past, present, and future falling apart. Can't figure out if ah sees the severity of it. It is something that can be turned around (with a lot of work) but unfortuantely the burden lies on my ah and he just does not have the physical or mental stamina to pull it all together right now. Also, the Diversion Program which forced his sobriety also puts huge limits on his ability to work. I know, I know, focus on me and I am, but we still are emeshed. It comes down to being our mess. Uuugggh! We've had so many miracles over the years, but I think we may have had our quota.
Okay, enough rambling. Well, happy Sunday everyone. I am glad I have this board to just post my random thoughts on.
Blessings, Lou
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Every new day begins with new possibilities. It's up to us to fill it with the things that move us toward progress and peace. ~ Ronald Reagan~
Sometimes what you want to do has to fail, so you won't ~Marguerite Bro~
The depression and negative attitude of many alcoholics is a topic that comes up often at our f2f meetings. Not all A's are negative, but lots of them sure are. For me, it was one of the biggest challenges in living with a sober, mostly pretty good alcoholic - he just always looked on the dark side, and it brought me down.
For me, dealing with it came back to the old standby - detachment. His depression did not mean that *I* had to be depressed. It had nothing really to do with me.
For years I had thought that being a 'good wife' meant that I had to mirror his emotions (where did I get such a crazy idea, anyway?) and so I would either try to match him, or would try to cheer him up. Both were disasters - I resented 'having' to feel bad, I resented my efforts going unappreciated, he resented the cheering up, he resented feeling that he was not allowed his own feelings and needing to pretend around me - it was just a mess. With recovery, we both started working towards a sane settlement - he got to feel whatever he was feeling, and I got to feel whatever I was feeling. We never really made it, but we were inching in that direction.
I just had a talk recently with an old-timer in al-anon that relates to this topic.
I am currently married but we have been separated for 2 years. One of the reasons I had to leave was because of the negativity. I could no longer live with the 24/7 everything is bad, horrible or about to go bad or get horrible. I could not deal with the constant criticism, blaming and shaming. Its sooo hard living with a victim. I know he has a disease but I also now know that I have limitations. BECAUSE of my background growing up in an alcoholic home (my mother is a miserable old woman who does not drink but lives in total fear and always expects the worst), I simply cannot live and/or be married with someone who has no gratitude, acceptance or god/HP in their lives.
I simply refuse to interact with people that way, now. I mind my own business unless asked. When I want critical feedback, I WILL ASK FOR IT. I am no longer interested in living or existing in any way with a person who feels its their job to endlessly dish out unsolicited advice and feedback whenever they feel like it.
My al-anon friend said: 3 things:1.) the verbal and emotional abuse has got to stop, it is simply unacceptable, 2.) the drinking to self-medicate is an issue that requires an immediate plan developed with the help of a medical professional (AH has untreated bi-polar disorder), 3.) god/HP has got to be included in this marriage NOW. I simply need to present these to him and here are the two options: 1.) watch him run, 2.) new beginning. Either way I win. Hugs, J.
Good for you for making your daughters birthday nice!! Slumber parties are such great memories for girls and so hard on parents! Sounds like you had most if not all the responsibility! Maybe because you stepped up and did something hard for you your children will not have trouble with parties for their children and will only have memories of all you did for them!
Could you please explain to me the feeling of not liking Birthdays? My Ah has no interest in any holiday or Birthdays- I know his were disappointments. Initially he acts like he forgets or doesn't have money at the time but finally the other day he said it's also was because he hates being "told" what to do. I am not being negative toward you at all just feel you could help me be more understanding of the issue to have some insight from your view. How if anyway could someone make it more comfortable for you? If you don't mind could you share more? Or you can pm me ?
LOL Glad, my AH as a bad birthday thing going, too- so, YA LOU, dish us on the bad birthday vibe, wud ya?!!! I need some of YOUR ESH on that, good idea Glad (and I do not mean to hijack your post Lou so you could PM us if u prefer?). Hugs, J.
I am surprised at myself for personally being affected by your post and the replies or parts of the whole thing. HP just reminded me that it is my program that I take care of and self focus is how I get off of how others are doing things and asking myself how am I doing and what is my part in it.
I don't like negativity whether I am raising it or feeling the pressure of it from others including my spouse who is also in recovery and resounds about "working her program". What is my expectation of a spouse that is in recovery? Negativity and personally directed negativity? No. I attend meetings with a majority of women and they pretty much voice it as I voice it. From that I have learned that there is little that separate me from my sisters in recovery when it comes to personal needs, wants and feelings other age so it comes down to I cannot get what I will not give. That is a recovery step for me.
Should my spouse or anyone else feel the same way about birthdays as I should? How much control do I want? How much acceptance do I really have?
Without inspection of my own oppositional/defiant characteristic (at times) I will resist openly anyone who thinks that I should feel about a subject the way they do it. I learned in this program that what I think and feel is mine alone and I respect to the limit anyones' choice and ability to not follow suit. It just isn't honest program for me. Others, including my spouse have their own choices period and they should be supported in it. If another person is feeling sad and depressed about whatever I don't attempt to take the attitude that they shouldn't or they should feel as I see it. "Let go and Let God" is only one tool I use to take my hands off. If a person is feeling sad and depressed for what ever reason...I grope for compassion. I know what feeling sad and depressed feels like and it sucks for me and I know of no one that it doesn't suck for either. Practice begins at home for me so my spouse gets the compassion when she has a headache, is tired, confused or just feeling negative and wanting to just shotgun it around.
"I know I know focus on me..." I read you post several times and reacted because the post felt familiar to me as the male partner/husband several time zones away.
I have been male case manager in an Alternatives to Violence program. I have personally witnessed and provided services in many reverse victim situations. My experience? Victim is not a gender word it is a condition just a perpetrator is not a gender word. Closer experience is that I have been both. When I am being unfairly and negatively treated by my program attending spouse; female, it feels exactly like victimization until I use acceptance and compassion. When I inventory my words and emotions as negative and watch my spouse's reaction I relate to being the abuser; perpetrator.
Both you AND your spouse are going thru troubled times. Both you AND your spouse can receive the miracle of recovery as a result of working this program. I find that a more acceptable reality to support than any other.
Lin - When I really think about it, my ah's behavior is not all that different than it has been for years, I guess I have just moved out of denial (and love) and see it for what it is. It is still hard for me especially when I see him turn it on and off for others. Yes, detachment is the key and a work in progress.
Jean and Glad, I'd be happy to pm you about my anti-birthday thoughts, unless there are many interested and then we could start a thread. I'd be willing to bet that I am not alone?
Jerry, I don't know if its because I am not as cerebral as you, have just been a year in the program, am post-slumber party fog+time change brain or a combo there of, but, HUH? I post to heal as well as to learn so I would love some clarification. When I post here, I only give snippets of information and sometimes background is omitted or implied. I don't know if I am misunderstood or really that far offbase.
I don't expect my husband to feel the same as me about birthdays. I only mentioned my feelings about them to share about me. Actually, I hope he enjoys them. I know he used too. His depression and my irritation was independent of that. Was it my statement about wanting him to act happy that bothered you? That his behavior depresses me? The whole "victim" thing? I don't want to control his feelings, rather, I would just like him to start controlling his own as to stop the cycle of self-abuse that ultimately affects everyone around him, both home and work. He has lost so many employees over the years. Just last month, 2 walked out. It has only been very recent that I see what keeps happening and realize that is wasn't always "thier fault". He is the common denominator after all, after 14 yrs, I finally see that.
I have compassion for the aism/addiction part of him. I understand it's a compulsion and disease, one he did not choose. I understand how sobriety can make him feel depressed and crazy. He is working an incredibly intense program, and I let him work it. The only thing I know of it comes from what he willingly chooses to tell me, but he implies that it is more of HIS program than THE program, and that is obvious. Whatever works. It's better than nothing.
What I no longer have compassion for are two things. 1) Back issues - He has real physical back issues - known fact. His recent severe wrenching resulted from deciding he should rearrange the furniture in his apt with my 10 yr old daughter's assistance. This happened 2 wks after he hurt his back building a fence, which put him out of work for 3 days. The severe pain makes him grumpy, go figure, and he can't medicate it the way he used to. Now he is doing a bit better, but insists on lifting our 40lb preschooler upside down over his head to give him "upside down" kisses each time he says goodbye. I say nothing. Docs say to rest. He will only do that if his pain is so severe he can hardly walk. Docs say to exercise. He doesn't want to. Docs say to get his emotional life under control. He says he doesn't know how. Yep, these are all his issues, but my children suffer and I admittedly get bugged as he mopes and limps around and gets impatient and short-tempered. We are self-employed and it severely affects work too. His employees don't want to be around him, he gets mad at their behavior, and the vicious cycle continues. We have 3 young kids.. In the past, I had compassion galore for his physcial state. Sorry, but I've lost it now. I must have did it wrong cause it just fed his self-pity.
2) Choice to have an affair with a married A woman with 2 kids. Conscious choice to not only add to the destruction of his own family, but another as well. I can only assume it continues, but don't ask. Doesn't fair well with the emotional wreckage he is supposed to be dealing with. He lives his life, I try to take care of myself and the kids. I Live and Let Live. But, in doing so I also must deal with the things such having to see and often sit by "her" at sporting and school events, tell my daughter that her friend (the daughter) cannot be invited to the b-day party, deal with "her" husband coaching my daughter's softball team, to name a few, and oh, and I sometimes even get to see her mom at al-anon. I walk through it all, and have fumbled some, but given the incredible pain and wierdness of the whole situation, I think I've done pretty well.
These two issues cloud everything for me. Yep, and that is what I need to work on, for only I am going to be able to make the situations bearable. For me these are not issues about aism, addiction, or victimization. They are about poor choices as a human being and selfishness. Would they still be present if the aism wasn't there? I don't know and guess I never will, but his sister claims he wa "always like that". Up until recently, I just accepted it and loved him through it. I listened to him and thought I supported him.
I do know I need to beef up my program and see what I can do about getting to meetings more regularly. I obviously have not reached serenity, not by any stretch of the imagination!
If I made my post sound as an attack on alcoholics, I apologize. I absolutely do not expect him to be a saint and I sure as heck willnever qualify. I certainly fall into victim mode too, a lot! Yep, we both need the miracle of recovery. I sure hope we can find it.
Blessings, Lou
__________________
Every new day begins with new possibilities. It's up to us to fill it with the things that move us toward progress and peace. ~ Ronald Reagan~
Sometimes what you want to do has to fail, so you won't ~Marguerite Bro~
A's are unable to take care of themselves so they make choices that result in back problems (I have seen this pattern anyway), etc. My AH is the same way. I have an issue with it, too. Also, I cannot help but see the other pattern to this which is male (pardon me but its my opinion, nothing more) and a form of machismo that they can do anything. I see it all around me 24/7. I sure don't see women pushing themselves to self-injury in the same way, that is for sure although I know there are some.
They just have a death and misery wish, it seems. That is the disease. It gets all over us, too. Its so awful, I hate it.
The affair thing is just off the charts for me. My AH and I had such a long talk about this before marrying and wrote monogamy into our wedding vows quite explicitly. It was so important to our marriage. If he (or I) had an affair, the marriage would be over instantly. That is one boundary we both had and were very serious about. I do not know if my AH has had any affairs or not in my absence. In a way, I do not care because if he did (and he tells me or I find out about it), its just over- that is all there is to it. No discussion. I have not had any affairs, not even any emotional attachments of any kind. This is a "deal breaker" for me and he knows it. i assume its one for him, too.
Lou, I think you are making some progress. I see it. You are working hard. We are here cheering you on just like you are here cheering us on. We are so in the same boat and I am glad although I know its a tough spot, too. Hugs, J.
