The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
My second post of the day . . . I'm in a bit of a crisis. My ABIL showed up at our door yesterday afternoon. He lives 2 1/2 hours away and just showed up. I was very upset with him over Thanksgiving because he was so drunk. It just really disgusts me. My AH is better (relatively speaking) than he has been in the past. However his drinking has increased again. When I saw my BIL at my front door, my heart sunk. I can't bear to live with one A, much less 2. My AH wasn't home - he told my daughter he went to the store. 3 hours later he comes home. I'm concerned about his drinking - usually he drinks beer, but lately it smells more like hard liquer. I detected that smell as he handed me roses (give me a break). Anyway, before he got home and I was talking to my BIL, my BIL asked if he could stay for a few days. I told him only if he can stay sober. He just looked at me. He can't promise that and I know it. Once my AH got home, he mentioned his brother wanted to stay a few days and asked if it was OK. I said "I'll tell you the same thing I told him - only if you both stay sober".
Am I being reasonable? That seems to be a fair boundary. It IS my house. Right now I am the ONLY one paying the bills (AH out of work for almost a year now . . . again). I didn't state any consequences, but I feel it at least gives me the grounds to confront the issue should they decide not to stay sober. But, then as I think about that, what the heck can I do if they do start drinking? I can just hear the drunk laughter if I "throw them out". And if I "throw them out", that means they would drive drunk and that is also wrong. So, I feel stuck. If they refused to leave, would calling the police do any good????
Sorry, my mind is racing. And I realize I am "projecting" (see other post). But, I need tools so that I may be equipped . . .
"Only if you stay sober." There is a useless boundary. Nothing you say, expect, beg for, or cry over, is going to make one bit of difference to an alcoholic. Alcoholics drink...that's what they do. In this case, I view a boundary as, "No." That's what you really want to say isn't it? But if you say, "No", you must mean it and stick to it. Being "fair" is not a part of it. Whatever the boundary is, it is "fair" because that is the way you want it. The house is yours. Have things the way you want them.
Dear one, you cannot control the alcoholism. You can only control the way you react to it. You cannot protect them...you cannot cure them...you did not cause this. Did you talk about the "3 Cs" while you discussed slogans at your meeting?
I wish I had the magic formula; I'd share it with you. But none of us do. We take care of ourselves, and if we do that well, we have succeeded.
Diva
Diva
-- Edited by Diva at 13:44, 2007-12-03
__________________
"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Steadfast, I agree with Diva on this one. I know its hard but its really what you want, isn't it? You are super lucky in that it is YOUR house and you are paying all the bills so you do have some control and jurisdiction. You are the mayor of your town, the queen of your castle so act like it! Diva said it best: "The house is yours. Have things the way you want them."
Drinkers drink. You get one, another one comes along. They will run roughshod all over anyone who lets 'em. Give 'em and inch and they will take a mile, I guarantee it. Its your house and its your decision.
It is hard to say no because you want a nice happy home and you do not want to look like a bitch, I know! You want everyone to be happy. I felt that way too. I think we all do but after being a doormat for a long long time we usually figure it out. The behavior and the person are two separate things: I love the man, I hate the behavior. Al-anon is a way for me to "do" this.
Bring these kinds of questions and situations to your F 2F group also, just let it all out and ask for their Experience, strength and hope.
Edit: I have no idea why this comment went to this post..lol It's obviously for the projecting post
Hi Steadfast, I think what Alanon means by projecting (my take anyway) is when you get yourself all upset over things that you can't know if they will happen or not. Some folks have panic attacks, cry, wring their hands...then find that there was no need for their self inflicted drama at all.
It's smart to know what you will say or do for different scenerios. That's a great plan.
Alanon says "have a plan B" and that is what you have going on.
Christy
-- Edited by Christy at 14:01, 2007-12-03
__________________
If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Thanks for your response. From reading other posts, I know that you are straight to the point and do not sugar coat anything! LOL!
You are right. I really don't want him to stay there. I really want to say No. I realize that deciding to be "hospitable" is NOT taking care of myself. I'm afraid that if I did say that, they I would be put in a position of fighting 2 A's (as my husband would likely side with BIL). I can't even handle one A.
I know I can't control it or cure it. And I know I did not cause it. I know that. I even acknowledge that there is no way that either of them can promise me they will stay sober. But a part of taking care of myself seems to be voicing my feelings. And I hope by voicing it, that it will make them think. That's probably too optimistic. Living with active drinking is making me crazy. Maybe there is a better way to say it to them. But I am having a hard time understanding how I can take care of myself when I am living in the middle of this. I am a newborn at this. I just don't get it yet!
Being Mayor sounds logical to me. Yes, I agree. But how to you stand up for that? If my AH says I'm being a bitch for not letting BIL stay and then looks at the BIL and says he can stay . . . WHAT CAN I DO??????? Can I call the police? If I go home from work today and find 2 drunks in my Family Room, what can I REALLY DO? My AH is an angry drunk. Heck, he is angry when he is sober. I have learned that I absolutely can not engage in ANY conversation with him when he has been drinking. I have stated that to him. In fact, when he "invites me to an arguement", I calmly state that I can not talk to him right now and I walk away.
I really appreciate your advice and insight. I really feel helpless in this!
Steadfast, for me (this is my ESH, take what you need and leave the rest), the only way to take proper care of myself in a situation like that is to be true to myself and my needs ahead of his. For me, if I do not, the resentment game gets going and then I turn into a murderous wench (I mean this literally: there was a time when I hit bottom where I thought that murdering my AH was the best option for me). Do I want to be a bitch now or a murderous monster later? I prefer the bitch now. But as out program says, each one of this needs to answer this question in our own way and in our own time.
How much each one of us can take is up to each one of us. I cannot tell you where your limits are.
I know where mine are because I was going to murder someone I loved dearly because I did not want him to think I was a bitch. I am a people pleaser and I want everyone to love me. I learned that when I do that, I am not taking care of myself. Years of people pleasing and going along with stuff and being "nice" instead of a bitch all got me to the murderous monster situation.
I know how frightening angry men are. My AH is the biggest and angriest man in the world. But I contributed to making him that way. I was never clear about what was Ok or not Ok with me, I waffled, I buckled, I did not know myself, hid from myself, stuffed myself, contorted myself, danced all around in circles and very coyly manipulated everything and everyone around me including him. No wonder he was angry ALL the time.
The only place that has your answers is your HP. No one on this board has your answers. All we can do is relay what we have been through. Then you get to sort through it all to see what "sounds" good/feels right and even the ones that sound bad are useful because then you will be sure of what you DO NOT want to do.
I have all the faith in the world that you are going to be OK. You are in good hands- the hands of your HP and it is no accident that you are in the present situation you find yourself in. Your awareness is changing and you are growing. Even in this difficulty there are rays of goodness and hope.
Thank you for your insight. You are right, I need to turn it over to God.
I am also a people pleaser. And you are also right - that means I am putting everybody else first and not taking care of myself. The times I do state my desires, I feel such freedom! Like telling my AH and BIL on Sunday that he could stay if they stayed sober in my house. In my heart of hearts I knew they could not make that promise. They just can't. But I stated my request. I know that if Diva is reading this, she would say that it was not a boundary! It is not effective! LOL! (I love everyone's honesty here). But, I did the only thing I knew I could do. And expressing my feelings was a big step for me because I am a peace maker and he is an angry drunk.
Unfortunately, I came home last night and they had been drinking. It didn't surprise me. My BIL was standing there with a beer, but said my AH wasn't drinking. What a lie. I'm so tired of being lied to. I'm so tired of my AH sneaking around drinking. Does he think I'm completely stupid?? I have lost trust in him. I've lost respect for him. And there is not much love left. Much of that love is being replaced with hate. Anyway, after I "caught" them, I went to my room and locked the door and began writing out my thoughts. I went to sleep around 11:30. At 2:30 am, I was woken up by our garage door. My BIL decided to drive himself 2 1/2 hours home. What an idiot! Like he needs another DUI! I had a hard time going back to sleep after I heard him leave. The last time I remember looking at the clock it was after 4:00.
Anyway. I'm at work and on lunch break. I'm trying to function. But I really feel like I am done. I'm tired of the drinking, the lies, the unemployment (AH has been unemployed, again, now for a year). I have stood by him, prayed for him, taken his verbal abuse, taken his lies, taken his disappearing for 3 hours ("going to the store") and coming home drunk. He does that on a regular basis. He disappears to who knows where and comes home drunk. How in the world does he think I can trust him? And then a few days ago, he accussed ME of having an affair! I have been faithful for the 28 years we have been together. Not even an "emotional" affair. Man, he is one messed up dude! Between this accusation and the "fly in your face not going to respect your request" on Sunday, I am done. He has made his choices. He can deal with the consequences on his own.
Thanks for listening everyone! I could use your prayers as I consider what my next step should be. At the minimum I will insist he attend AA meetings with the understanding that if he does not attend by a certain day and go on a regular basis (what is a good number to attend in a week???), then he needs to move out. (Diva, how is that for a boundary?) At the other extreme, I may just tell him to move out now. When he can obtain sobriety and get his career back in order, I may be ready to cohabitate with him again . . .
This is just my observation, but we have seen here on this board time and time again that requiring someone to go to meetings is really an unenforcible boundary. He may or may not go and he has a history (like my AH) of lieing whenever it suits him. This really sounds more like setting yourself up to be lied to.
My experience is that I did the other option you stated, and it is working for us. It took some time, but he did finally get busy with the program. That's not to say that yours will. He may not, but when I asked mine to leave it was with the understanding that he would not get back in if he didn't work at it this time. I did not know at the time if he would or not and was prepared for what seemed my inevitably living by myself from that day on.
My boundary went further this time than just get sober. This time he had to work on getting healthy and becoming a partner in this relationship instead of just a drain. This time it was not about him. This time it was about me, what I needed and wanted from a relationship. This time I was truly done with the same old behavior and attitudes, his and mine. I was ready to either grow or call it quits and seek divorce to protect myself financially.
In this state one has little recourse against a spouse who racks up bills and credit. I realized I was extremely vulnerable and took steps that were recomended to me by members here. I closed joint checking accts and opened one of my own (after consulting the bank and making them aware of the issues at hand). I even closed our sons savings acct because AH's name was on it. We opened a new one.
The funny thing is that though they were not at all designed to, these actions served to really get my AH's attention. He finally realised how close he was to really losing it all.
The main thing to remember is that you do not have to make any decisions until you are good and ready to carry them out. I remember saying those exact words, "I'm done." for months before I really figured out what I needed to do and worked up the courage to act.
I realize now that we tend to want to believe their lies and ignore what they do. But they look at what we do and ignore our words because we tend to make empty threats and not carry through. When I started paying attention to what he did and followed through with what I said, then things started to change for me for the better.
Of course my experience will not be yours so take what you can use and don't sweat the rest.
Hope this helps.
In recovery,
__________________
~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
How can u expect a bil to stay sober when your husb can't , yes it is a little unreasonable to ask , he is only doing what a's do drink . nothing u can do about either one of them . they will do what they have to do regardless of the rules . they may keep each other busy so u can have some free time . after all it is xmas time , maybe a nice trip to the mall will do u good . get you out of the house anyway . or better yet find some extra meetings for yourself sounds like u may need them .
