The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
This may get convoluted, so I will try to keep it brief. Yesterday evening I was upstairs folding clothes and my 7-year old daughter and a friend of hers were downstairs with AH. My daughter found a t-shirt online that she wanted to order, but her friend said, "your dad won't let you get that." She replied, "my mom will, dad's not in charge of the house, all he does is sit on the sofa."
Now, I did not witness this. My daughter came upstairs upset saying that she was feeling left out because Dad was playing a game with her friend and that Dad wouldn't let her get on the computer. I just ignored the situation...didn't seem like much of a big deal. I came down later after her friend left and AH asked me if daughter told me why she was upset. I told him what she had told me, then he told me what she actually said.
I said, I am sorry she said that, don't be mad at her. Then he gave me the most hateful look and said I am not mad at her, I am mad at you for filling her head with these ideas. I was shocked and angry and I said, "I have never said anything like that about you to her, I am your champion to that child. Maybe you should do some self reflection instead of blaming me for the observations of a seven year old." Then I gave daughter a bath and shut myself in my bedroom. We haven't spoken since.
This just illustrates the depths of his denial. He thinks I make him look bad for taking care of business instead of sitting on the couch drunk with him. It doesn't even dawn on him that what she said could be true. She is a very bright child who he credits all the time for her academic and artistic achievements, yet can't fathom that she has the capacity to notice that he sits on the sofa or in front of the computer for hours on end every day?
He weighs 315 lbs, his cholesterol is over 500, he drinks like a fish, bathes once or twice per week, and is almost completely sedentary...no problem, I would never have noticed either.
My daughter came upstairs upset saying that she was feeling left out because Dad was playing a game with her friend and that Dad wouldn't let her get on the computer. I just ignored the situation...didn't seem like much of a big deal.
I'm having trouble grasping this. Your daughter came upstairs to share her feelings of being left out, and you ignored it because it was 'no big deal'. Obviously her father is incapable of listening to her and nurturing her, so she came to you.
Sorry, but this really hits home with me because I have an 11 year old granddaughter whose A mother is in jail again, and her father (who has custody) does nothing to interact with her in the evenings as he plays video games after work till bedtime. She has NO one to listen to her and acknowledge her feelings except at my house. I watched her sit here and sob to the point where she almost vomited because she poured out all her pain to someone who would listen. I hugged her so hard I started crying too.
__________________
"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson
Well if he blames you for his child's comments then it takes the guilt and pressure off him. So IMHO he knows she sees him and he probably has tremendous guilt over it but might not be ready to deal with it. So playing the blame game allows him to stay in denial at least in front of you guys. Inside I'm sure there is alot of emotion going on for him. Unless he stays in a constant state of drunken stupor, reality sets in at some point.
My AH has a hard time dealing with the reality that his language and the way he talks back to me in front of the children could be causing a problem. I constantly have to say in front of the kids, "Daddy could you watch your language or Daddy please don't use those potty words". If I said nothing they would think its appropriate. Same thing when he shoots back an inappropriate response to me, I have to ask that he be respectful or I cannot talk to him, if we said nothing the kids would just believe that this way of life is o.k. It stinks that the kids have to see their parents in this negative light, but at least your daughter has you to say, its Dad's choice to live like this but giving her the example of what is more healthy. I don't bad mouth their Dad, if the kids are upset with him over something he's said, I just say well give Daddy a chance to cool off and then talk about it later, or something like that. It is hard not to be the referee or the go between with the kids, but already at 4 they know if they need something, they come to me first. Who has been more reliable to them?
AH knows this and has to make his choices about how he wants his children to view him. The older they get the more they hold that mirror up to our faces to show us the truth. Eventually, we all have to deal with the truth, even the A. Sounds like you did what you felt was right with your daughter. Keep being there for her. Have a great day. Peace, Twinmom~
__________________
"The people who don't mind matter and the people who mind, don't matter". (Dr. Seuss)
To clarify any misunderstanding. In no way did I ignore my daughter. I did not, however, rush downstairs to force my husband to let her on the computer after he told her she could not use it. That would be inappropriate as he is her parent too and has every right to determine when she may or may not use it. Secondly, the friend who was here lives next door and he comes and goes from our house as he pleases. He is often here and not playing with her. To my AH's credit, he is a wonderful father who is loved tremendously by his daughter.
I would like to encourage everyone, especially new members, to stick with the format of this board, which is to provide experience, strenght, and hope. We do not judge situations we do not fully understand.
Tenderheartsks - I am sorry that your family situation is in crisis and your granddaughter has a poor quality of life as a result, but please do not interject your situation into mine, there is no comparison to be made.
I deal with an A who has serious health issues This week he is going to the doctor like 3 times. The issue for me is that I have my own serious health issues, I have asthma, I have high cholesterol. I have a kidney disease. I'm not taking care of my stuff either.
This week I surrendered. I'm in a real hole financially. I'm in a real mess in lots of ways. There are not any quick solutions. Oh did I say I also need dental work.
Are you being kind to yourself? I can be such a really big stick on myself, why why why, oh this is terrible blah blah all day long. I can also be so so so so stuck in tremendous frustration with the A. He has so many things that are not taken care of. But then so do I???? So I have to keep focusing on me and my issues and not be dazzled by his mess (which alway seems far worse than mine).
I am sorry the A is depressed in your house. Depression seems to go along with the disease. I can have my own bouts of depression. I am overweight at the moment by what about 50 lbs at least. I use food as a way to stuff down the feelings.
So what I would ask is what are you doing to take care of you. Coming here is one thing.
I have to be super careful who I go to about my issues. I can be judged, praised, told what to do and advised to death.
The truth is for me its one day at a time, with or without the A I'm in a huge mess.
I surrendered today and that felt better. My life is going to be difficult for a few years but I have recovery to look forward to.
Apologies for misinterpretting your post. There was no mention of you acknowledging your daughter when she came to you; you stated you ignored the situation. I took that at face value.
As for what I do and don't understand, I think you are now misjudging, but that's okay.
What I do know is I have been on both sides of the fence, as a recovering alcoholic myself, and as the loved one.
I spent years defending my A and allowing the insanity to continue.
The effects on my oldest daughter were profound.
So when I get a little too passionate, which apparently comes off as judgemental, it's because I've seen the aftermath of kids who have grown up in an alcoholic home firsthand in my own life.
-- Edited by Tenderheartsks at 11:11, 2007-07-11
__________________
"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson
Babysteps, this is so classic :) . The logic used is, well, NOT logic, and it must be a disease for their minds to so stubbornly work this way in the face of reality.
Both of my kids, who are not geniuses but very average, were capable of astonishing me by how much they understood what was going on. I was just another parent who thought it all went over their heads (rather, HOPED). No such luck!
If a seven year old child is capable of recognizing the accurate state of your husband, while he is NOT . . . well. It all makes me think about how do we, or should we, bring it up with the kids once they show evidence they "understand" what's going on?
As far as how we relate to each other on this board, I try to look at the 'public posts' as 'shares' in a meeting. They are about US, they don't focus in particular on another member. That's what little chats AFTER the meeting are for, or in this case, PMs.
It's so true that we really do not know enough of the details of another's life as they tell their stories to make quick conclusions. It's always good to do a quick reality check within ourselves for our motivations for speaking up, and to do a quick reality check with the other person . . . especially if the emotion is a bit on the 'high' side. I haven't had enough coffee yet to easily quote the traditions :D but principles before personalities and the importance of unity in the process of personal recovery.
I recall when my ex-wife A was actively drinking... she was obliterated every day by 5pm, I was working all day, picking the kids up from daycare, feeding them, bathing them, etc..... One night, after getting the kids tucked into bed, my A came up from downstairs to inform me that I was a joke - a useless father, a pathetic human being, I had NO relationship with my kids, and I was a bad influence for them.
Today, I can (almost) laugh about the lunacy of that remark, but I really remember how much those types of comments affected me at the time. When we are "ill" from all this addiction crap around us - we tend to look to our A's for our validation and approval. It is truly a recipe for disaster.
We cannot expect sick and insane people to act in healthy and sane ways....
Take care of you, and know in your heart that you are the only adult in that house right now.
Take care Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
This could have happened in my home. It screams of immaturity. Talk about childish. It just rattles the brain -- During a trip to a theme park my AH told our then 8 yr old son that he was just going to go ride rides all by himself since our son wanted to ride one particular ride on his own. It was kind of like saying "Well fine then, if you don't want play with me I'm not going to play with you." My son just looked at him and said Okay. hehehe
It has gotten to the point that these things hurt me more than they do my children, sound crazy but it's true. They expect this behavior from their father and are more mature than he is -- they don't get down on his level. Talk about role reversal!
I am sorry that your AH made it a point to hurt your daughter to get to you. Give your beautiful daughter a big hug and remind her that what daddy does isn't aways about her, that it isn't right but he is sick and you love her. Sometimes that is the best we can do.
I have to admit that I think the A's behavior towards my animals (who in no way approximate children) angers me more than the fact he neglects himself. At one point he didn't feed the dogs. He does feed them now but they dont' really have an effective roof over their heads.
The A wasn't always like this. He did provide for years. I have to remember that. He does get totally quashed by his illness (not just the alcoholism). I can too I was smothered in depression for years and years and years.
It's easier to play with the neighbor girl 1) because he doesn't have a history with her; 2) because she's not his daughter; 3) he knows the neighbor girl's mom isn't going to come bitching at him later I think also it's easy to see why he's so "ignore-able." It's kinda like the dust that builds up on the dining room table: you just don't think about it. It becomes a part of the art work of the house
