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My husband who is divorcing me told our family doctor that I am at fault for his raging, his anger, his abuse, his cheating and I guess all his other problems. He said that I make him crazy and that is why he broke his hand pounding on the chair. I made him rage and break his cell phone into a hundred little pieces. I made him shove his fist through our basement sheetrock. I made him throw me across the room and end up in a pile under our counter with a black & blue knee. He also said that I was faking it and that all he did was shove me. He goes to 3-4 meetings a week and has been for 2 years although he quit drinking 26 years ago. He didn't go for the first 24 years. Anyway, isn't that going completely against all the AA principles? I though that they taught that everyone is to take responsibility for their own actions and feelings. I guess that means for everyone else, not him. Please, someone give me some advice, as I think I am going crazy.
You know all that stuff he's saying is not true. 'You made him do it', what rubbish. He just doesn't want to take responsibility for his behaviour. And pushing or physically hurting someone is never self defence if it is possible to just walk away or leave the room. Everyone has free will and choices and a mind of their own. What he's trying to say is 'I'm mindless and and the will of you and if you say something I don't like I therefore have to act out'. What absolute rubbish.
Do you really believe a family doctor is going to believe him? That's like a little kid saying 'mommy, she pushed me'... puh-leeeasse! He sounds abusive to me. I bought a book a while ago called 'Ditch that Jerk' and was about a PhD student's research into domestic violence and whether it's possible for these types of guys to change and what to look out for to determine if they ever will. It doesn't really have a 'happy ending'. Most of these guys even if they go to a Men's group or AA still may never change.
I have been through this with my jerk, and all I could do in the end was tune out that rubbish and hope he runs out of steam and just try to do the best thing for me and not get pulled into a tit-for-tat. Because what these kind of guys also want to do is to say those things to draw you in so you try to defend your point, to get emotionally worked up and say 'that's not true, etc. etc.' because ANY attention is attention from you to them. Maybe he doesn't want to let go of the relationship and is trying to keep you emotionally engaged with him...
Hello snoopy , well he certainly thinks your powerful if u can make him do all those things,sheeeeesh delusion is an amazing thing . AA tells people to take responsibility for thier own crap and obviously he isn't able to do that yet . Ignore what he says dont' bother to defend it ,it's bull and I really hope u know that. Drunk or sober if they do not become willing to change nothing changes except they don't drink. the disease rampages on .
Please go to Al-Anon meetings for yourself , u too need to recover . Living with him or not yourlife has been affected by his behavior . AA cannot make anyone get h onest it promotes honesty but if the person isn't ready to do that there is nothing they can do about it. He is not telling them the truth either. Let it go . and get on with your own recovery. Louise
That is nonsense, I am sure you know that. Any decent doctor will too. I know it hurts to hear someone say nasty things like that even when it is nonsense. And I am sorry you are hurting. Try to take extra special care of yourself right now.
When I was new in Alanon, I couldn't understand how someone who stopped drinking could be so nasty to me. Then someone explained that he hadn't lost his - "ism -"that all he did was stop using alcohol. So he's not sober, just a dry drunk.
You don't make him say or do anything, he chooses. It's not your fault. Those were the sweetest words ever said to me because I used to blame everything on myself just like he did!
Now I can see how sick he is and pray for him. Knowing that I don't cause his behaviour no matter what he says helps me to tune it out. I don't usually say much back to him because that makes it worse for me.
Just remember that you're not causing this, after all these years it's still his alcoholism causing it. Take care of yourself - you're okay.
Sounds like someone isn't going to AA meetings. AA wouldn't tell them those things. He does sound like a dry drunk. I feel for you, I really do. :( Take care of yourself.
When I saw your post title, sorry, I just had to laugh - "it's all my fault" yeah, what else is new.
It's a symptom of his disease - no different from puking all over his shoes when he's drunk and just about as nasty. Just get out of the way and don't let it spatter you - it has nothing to do with you.
Myself, I spent nearly 20 years believing him....
As for going to AA meetings - a lot of people go to the meetings, but don't let the meetings touch them. There are, unfortunately, a lot of dry drunks in AA, too. It only works if you work it.
sounds as though he is just attending the meetings. unless he sits down in the chair all the way he isn't going to own up to anything. whether he is going or not. he is dry. maybe, just maybe....he might hear something at one of those meetings he attends.
The program works if you work it! It doesn't work anyother way.
For me, if he told my dr that, more power to him. We are people of integrity. Time will prove us all right. I am certain the dr knew the only problem in that room was the hubby himself.
His behavior reminds me of my first A. Always, tried to turn things around in my mind and it would all boil down to my fault. My 4th step showed me where I was wrong. Where he was wrong...doesn't matter anymore.
I am sorry for what you are going through and hope you keep coming back! He may not change, but you certainly will. Your sanity, joy, happiness, and freedom are priceless and you derserve that!
I was reading through these posts and all I could think was: life is soo short, but when you get caught up in these messes it can feel like time stands still. Would one want their dying thoughts on their life to be 'is this it??'...
Your post reminds me that sobriety does not equate recovery. You can take the booze away from an alcoholic but if booze was really the problem then what would be the necessity for Alcoholics Anonymous. That would mean that alcoholism was simply a behavior and NOT a disease. Whether the alcoholic is drinking or not.... we can be happy. I didn't get happy standing by and feeling blamed for everything that was going wrong in my life and feeling like everything that I did that I felt good about was never good enough. None of that was anyone ELSE's fault. I made conscious decisions, for a multitude of reasons, that supported the behavior that fueled those outcomes. I taughty my spouse and everyone around me by accepting those outcomes that they could continue to treat me in the same manner. As I have gotten better there has been shifting around me, lots of negativity running away screaming for certain. I am not quite sure I am specifically answering the question you posed. These thoughts just came to me and as always I hope they are of some use.
Thanks to everyone who responded. Each and every one of you made me cry. I know deep down inside that his raging and hair trigger temper is not my fault. I've seen him do it to too many other people to think I'm the cause of all his rage. However, in my vulnerable moments when I'm alone, I get this little voice inside me that says, "he's right, it's all your fault. If you were thinner, if you were younger, if you kept a neater house, if you cleaned out your closets more, if you dressed better and sexier, if you were better in bed, if you didn't start the war in Iraq, etc, etc, etc." Maybe he would have loved you. I'm really the one that ended this marriage of 28 years, and killed his love for me. BTW, I am thin, I look much younger than my years, Our house is beautiful, I do dress nicely, and he always told me I was a great lover. On the downside tho, my closets are still a mess and the war in Iraq is still going strong. He used to bitch at me for everything. Now at alanon meetings I find myself not wanting to say the end of the Lords Prayer, because he said that I purposely fouled up the ending, but years of Catholic church taught me to say, For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory "Now and forever", while the AA prayer is "forever and ever". amen. It seemed I couldn't do anything right.-- Even say the Lord's prayer without inciting his comtempt for me. Can someone please tell me if this is normal? He would put me on a pedestal, saying how smart, beautiful, and likeable I am. He would say that everyone liked me and if it weren't for me that everyone would hate him. He would say that he liked going to places with me because he wouldn't have to even say anything, He would just watch me work the room, work my magic on people. He would say that he loved having me in the office because I would joke with clients and put them at ease and get them in a good mood so that it would be easier for him to tell him some potential bad news about their investments. He is a financial planner. He would put me on a pedestal and then hours later throw me in the gutter. This was a cycle that I could prredict. Honeymoon, then him becoming critical, sarcastic, mean, etc, then saying he wants to leave me. Coming back and starting honeymoon again. No wonder I'm crazy. Please keep posting. You are helping me more than you will ever know.
Hi again, Don't know if this will help or not - I don't see anything in your post that says that YOU know he told the doc all those things.
Were you there?? Did doc tell you?? If you were there, okay - if doc told you later, okay, too. Or was this him and his disease talking??
My A lies so much that I've learned to pay attention to very little what he says. Now that I understand how the alcoholic operates, I DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO ANY OF IT. I DON'T HAVE TO RESPOND TO IT. I just nod my head and tune it out or if I can't do that, I walk away. There was a time when walking away would make it worse for me so I had to ACT AS IF I were listening, but not take it on as anything to do with me.
A's love to get a rise out of us. The way take the wind out of his sails is to not react which you'll learn thru Alanon just like I did.
If he really did tell the doc this, I agree with others - it makes A look bad, not you.
Take care of yourself -- buy yourself a rose, take a bubble bath, or a walk or whatever you like to do. Go to as many meetings as you can.
***There is a paperback book by Toby Rice Drew called "Getting them Sober" that is a "must read." It's not conference approved but guess where I found it? On the book shelf in an Alanon meeting where it was loaned out to Alanoners! It's available in most book stores. Don't let the title throw you - we can't get them sober - you'll relate to what's in the book and not feel crazy.***
I guess I can compare his behavior to myself before Alanon. I used to think my A made me crazy. Fact was,I made me crazy by having no guidance. Although your A is attending AA, he can only take from it what he chooses to, just like us. Has he done the steps? He may not have seen his actions as flaws in character yet or recognize them as such. In any case, your growth and who you are has nothing to do with what he says unless you allow it to. It doesn't change who you strive to be.
I think 'd use abbyal's comment when he says it's your fault.. "Gee, I must be one powerful woman to make you do all these things"
take care Christy
__________________
If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Hi again, Don't know if this will help or not - I don't see anything in your post that says that YOU know he told the doc all those things.
Were you there?? Did doc tell you?? If you were there, okay - if doc told you later, okay, too. Or was this him and his disease talking??
My A lies so much that I've learned to pay attention to very little what he says. Now that I understand how the alcoholic operates, I DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO ANY OF IT. I DON'T HAVE TO RESPOND TO IT. I just nod my head and tune it out or if I can't do that, I walk away. There was a time when walking away would make it worse for me so I had to ACT AS IF I were listening, but not take it on as anything to do with me.
A's love to get a rise out of us. The way take the wind out of his sails is to not react which you'll learn thru Alanon just like I did.
If he really did tell the doc this, I agree with others - it makes A look bad, not you.
Take care of yourself -- buy yourself a rose, take a bubble bath, or a walk or whatever you like to do. Go to as many meetings as you can.
***There is a paperback book by Toby Rice Drew called "Getting them Sober" that is a "must read." It's not conference approved but guess where I found it? On the book shelf in an Alanon meeting where it was loaned out to Alanoners! It's available in most book stores. Don't let the title throw you - we can't get them sober - you'll relate to what's in the book and not feel crazy.***
What happened was: I had an appointment with my doctor yesterday, and I asked about my husband as this doctor is our family doctor and I feel extemely confortable with him after going to him for about 15 years. He knows everything and is somewhat of a friend as our children are friends.He is also very compassionate, intelligent and insightful. After I asked him, he shared that Loren is NOT willing to give our marriage another try, He is done, over with us and his mind is made up. He tried some talk therapy and told me to get on with my life and said that Loren basically blamed me for everything bad that happens to him, that I make him rage and lose his temper. My doctor said all the correct things, like I can't change him, he has a personality disorder and talked with me about that, and I noticed him tearing up when I was telling my story. Anyway, that is how I know.
If anyone could answer my question about being put on a pedestal only to be thrown in the gutter later, I would appreciate that. I adressed it in a post in this thread.
Just because he says it doesn't make it true - Remember "my refrigerator's not blue"
The suggestion that was given to me - look at my refrigerator - what color is it? Mine happens to be Stainless steel - You could argue with me all day that "No, it's blue" Doesn't matter how many times you say "Rita, your refrigerator's blue" it is not going to change the truth. My refrigerator's silver. Just because you say it doesn't make it true.
Just because the A's in our lives say things like "It's your fault" "You make me drink" "I have to drink to live with you" and on and on and on. It doesn't make those things anymore true than it makes my refrigerator blue.
You could try the next time he is on a rant about it's your fault "I hate you feel that way" or leave the room or sometimes not arguing with them is the best, just repeat to yourself "My refrigerator's not blue"
You know the truth. You know he is affected by a disease, by the substance that he puts in his body - his actions, his behaviors and his feelings are about him not you, Snoopy.
Hope that you are able to do something nice for you today,
One Day at a Time,
Rita
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
If anyone could answer my question about being put on a pedestal only to be thrown in the gutter later, I would appreciate that. I adressed it in a post in this thread.
It sounds like your Dr. may have already said it, A has a personality disorder. We can barely get our mind wrapped around the why's of alcoholism. The bottom line is, you can't change it. Knowing why may help you understand but unless your A is willing to seek professional help it's most likely not going to make a difference.
Just as we are beginning to understand alcoholism, that it is a diseaase...we still cannot change it.
Christy
__________________
If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Snoopy, your husband is an ALCOHOLIC. He may have a personality disorder too, I believe most do, but bottom line: HE STILL HAS THE "ISM".
I'm so sorry for the pain you're going through. Please try to get the book I suggested.
I went through so much pain when my ex-husband left me with a new baby and a young child. He said it was "all my fault - that he couldn't talk to me!" I suffered for years because I didn't have Alanon at that time. Now I can look back and see that it wasn't my fault - he's the one who left. I was rejected by a reject! I was a good wife and mother - wish I had known it back then.
Yes, I agree with your doc, you must get on with your life. That's what we learn to do in Alanon - thank God. Married or not, doesn't matter - we get on with our life. We learn to let go and let God.
We learn to go by what the alcoholic does and not what he says even when it comes from a third party. I'm glad your doc is a friend, but Alanoners are experts at understanding how to deal with alcoholism - so are recovering* AA's. Open AA meetings will help you, too. **Everyone on this board has offered the same suggestions - just in different words. Wonder why that is??? Keep reading the posts until you're able to follow through on the suggestions.
Not easy - just necessary for our own emotional (and physical) health. Do something good for yourself.
Here is a quote that is on my homepage (profile...whatever it is called).
It reminds me to keep it simple.
"All of us could take a lesson from the weather. It pays no attention to criticism."
Ziggy
Hey, I like that!!! It will be my new mantra. I know what I need to do, but I feel like I am damaged goods. I don't want to grow old alone, but who will ever be able to love someone who can't trust, can't quit crying, and I am so afraid that I will be stuck in this rut forever. It's been 6 months since he moved out and he has jerked me around for 4 of those months until I finally wised up and told him not to come over anymore. He came over to take the dock out of the lake with our 15 year old son, and I invited him to come up and eat lunch with us.That was when we were still trying to be civil. He sat across the table from me and winked at me constantly, and I was dumbfounded!!! WTF, I thought you wanted a divorce, I thought to myself. My therapist thinks he has borderline personality disorder, and I know for a fact that something is going on with him..This kind of crap is not normal and I could go on for days about incidents, but in all reality, my stories are probably not much different from the rest of your's. They are all sick and unhealthy, same song, second verse.
Everyone says to take care of yourself, but I don't have a clue as to how to do that. All my life I have taken care of others and put myself and my needs and wants on the back burner to maybe get to later. My 3 kids, husband, parents and everyone else came first and I really didn't have much leftover time. When I would get to sit down once in a while in the evening, he would criticize me for paging through a magazine for instance. Jesus Christ, why are you wasting your time reading a magazine,he would bark. I need my self esteem back, but I'm afraid that after 28 years of physical, emotional, and mental abuse, it's going to take some time. Thanks for the encouragement.
I gained 125 ponuds in my 1st pregnancy. My 1st A would not let me live it down with the damage it did to my body when I lost all that weight. My 2nd I gained 97 pounds. He was harder and harder on me. Okay, so the car and I had this thing for anything that was lit up in neon flashing "buffet, buffet".....the first time. The 2nd time, I discovered chocolate, but wasn't interested in the whole buffet thing. Even after I lost the weight he would tell me how fat and ugly I was and nobody would want me on daily basis until I was convinved myself. I weight 120 lbs, when he was telling me this.
After our divorce, I was very sensitive about this and had been for years. When I came into the program, I would go have coffee with a group of people after the meeting. This topic came up. The man sitting accross from me told me that none of that stuff was true. I told everyone, I didn't feel worthy and I would die an old maid. I was convinced that what every man wanted was a 20 something, drop dead gorgous woman...yada...yada...yada.
He told me he liked women a little well seasoned and not every man was attracted to women like that. I thought....you liar! I didn't say it. I thought it. Time went on and I started focusing on good qualities that I can be proud of. Eventually, I became proud of the way I am wouldn't change it any other way. I am beautiful inside and out. There is someone out there that thinks and knows that I am totally sexy and treats me as such. Like a lady, doesn't allow me to beat myself up, takes great care of me.....even when I thought it would be hopeless...noone would want me and my baggage.
That man that said he liked his woman a little more season has been my boyfriend for a year now. My program teaches me to love myself and that I am worth it and I deserve the very best and always have....not just my man.
Point is, I got through my unworthiness.....a day at a time. My brain had to be retrained. I had to tell those negative thoughts they were wrong, everytime they would pop into my mind. I have friends and a boyfriend that keep me in check as well.
Rearrange the furniture in the house the way YOU like it
Cook what you want for supper (or treat yourself to a nice meal out)
Talk a long relaxing walk in the park, the beach, the woods, the mall (what is your favorite?)
Watch your favorite movie w/ popcorn
Paint your toenails
Treat yourself to a manicure
Read a good book
Take a nap
Take a leisure learning class
Go to an Al-Anon meeting
Treat yourself to a new hair style
Sit at home, relax and do nothing for an entire afternoon (no laundry, no dishes, no cleaning, just relax)
Prior to recovery, if someone would have suggested these things to me -I could have came up with 50 million reasons why I had to much to do to be able to do any of this for me - guess what - the world did not fall apart if I took time to relax and take a nap. Wow - amazing.
I still have trouble taking care of myself, but I'm working on it - Just start thinking about what would be relaxing for you & give it a try.
Hoping you have a relaxing & restful afternoon,
Rita
__________________
No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
Well, snoopy, I believe you can tell from the resounding passion of the recovering people who have replied to you that your husband's responces are NOT your fault. But something else you implied and alluded to does need to be addressed--the oft quoted in al anon "Are you a victim or a volunteer?" "No one can make me feel inferior without my consent" "What is your role?"
In cases of physical violence, as you can tell, safety is of the utmost importance. Protecting children (and, sometimes children insist on taking their dog Rex, too) is terribly important if only because both them and you deserve to feel safe in your own home. These slogans, unofficial as they are, suggest that those that are able to be accountable for their actions, and blame others for them, are committing more harm than good.
The wife that pours her husband's liquor down the drain, as an attempt to control his drinking.
The husband that picks a fight with his drunk wife, after being taught that arguing with a drunk person is self defeating.
The parent that bails their child out of jail, then fights with their spouse about not being able to pay the bills.
These types of situations are the reasons we challenge our members to "own their part;" NOT for victims of violence.
Keep coming back snoopy, and keep asking good questions.
These types of situations are the reasons we challenge our members to "own their part;" NOT for victims of violence.
Keep coming back snoopy, and keep asking good questions.
I do have a question. I don't understand what this sentence means. By it do you mean that I am a volunteer in his meanness, anger and rage but not in domestic violence issues? Really want to understand.
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE POWER TO BE INSIDE HIS MIND, CONTROL HIS THOUGHTS, CONTROL HIS ACTIONS. YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER HIM AT ALL. (BELIEVE US GIRL) YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME.
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE POWER TO BE INSIDE HIS MIND, CONTROL HIS THOUGHTS, CONTROL HIS ACTIONS. YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER HIM AT ALL. (BELIEVE US GIRL) YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME.
lOVE
ALLY
I know what you are saying is true, but all our married life he controlled me. If I resisted, then he went on a rampage or pouting session, or threatened to leave me and our small children, or gave me the silent treatment or dismissed me. How come he can go on being such a controllling person and yet everyone says that I do not have any power to control. It seems so one-sided to me and I guess that I hate him. I want to hate him, but in reality I don't. In an ideal scenario, he would get help, I would enter therapy with him and we wouldn't have to destroy our family. They say 100 people are affected when a couple divorces. But-------what can I do, besides hire a very very good attorney.
Yikes you are bringing me back to my days of old. Thank God for Alanon.
A must read is The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. That book saved my sanity. I hated the title. I didn't want anyone to see the cover, but what was inside those pages saved me from self-destruction.
It is not Alanon Conference Approved however I highly recommend it.
yours in recovery,
Maria123
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If I am not for me, who will be? If I am only for myself, then who am I? If not now, when?
I won't attempt to answer the question meant for tiger..but it did make me think of something that I recently read. It made me take a hard look at a few things. What I read was that "we are the creators of our own lives" and we have a part in every situation just by being present. Even at the most basic level, we choose to marry these people, we choose to stay or go, we choose to act and /or react. Even in cases that seem totally out of our control, our actions have somehow brought us to that point in time. Furthermore, the book says that our lives as we create it is an illusion. At first I thought that sounded rediculous, but as I read on it said that that the illusions are created by our own minds and what WE think is happening. I guess I can compare that to how a spouse feels about themselves after years of being told they are no good, fat, ugly useless etc. They become the victim and play the roll of a victim. It's not true but somehow they begin to believe it. That is the illusion.
Christy
__________________
If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
We allow them to control us by giving in to their tactics - this is something that I have taken a long time to learn, and am still learning. After all, why should 'the silent treatment' control you, or his pouts? Many of us are 'people pleasers' - it hurts when we know that someone is angry at us, or displeased in any way. However, this is not REAL, it is just something in us, our sickness.
When my kids were small (and even now, sometimes) they would say things like "I hate you, mommy" when I wouldn't do what they wanted. I didn't like this much, but really, it had no effect on my actions. It didn't make me say "oh, no, well in that case you don't have to go to bed". I just ignored it. However, when my husband used exactly the same tactics on me, it felt like the world was ending. He knew that, and so used his displeasure to control me. He had power over me because I loved him, and wanted him to be happy, and he abused that power. When I try to see what the difference was, between the two, what I can see is that I knew my kids loved and needed me, and would not leave. They would get over their mad, and life would go on. However, my husband always kept me a bit off balance - I was never sure of his love, and had to keep 're-earning' it, over and over. If I had been a healthy person, with good self esteem, when I met him, it wouldn't have taken long before I would have said "No. Nice guy but too many problems" and left. As it was, though, I allowed him to play these games with me. I played along, for all those years. At any time, I could have said "No" and walked, or I could have said "No", and stopped worrying about whether he would be mad, and just done what I thought was right anyway. So what if he sulked or was silent, or yelled and screamed, for that matter? But I chose not to - I chose to believe that the world would end if he was mad at me. That's my part in it.
You are only a 'volunteer' if you are letting what he says get into your head and re-play over and over like a broken record. Volunteer means 'hey, here I am, I'll be part of this of my own free will, I am willingly going to participate in this madness'. No one is forcing you to live as he descibes you, and he doesn't have to live based on how you make him feel.
I sensed in your post that you still have a lot of negative talk going on inside your head.. I used to be this way too. I think mine may have come from having a father that would say lots of terrible untrue things to me for no apparent reason. But the thing is, we can tend to believe what they say, especially in a parent-child relationship, because we depend on them. I had to take what he said and not talk back, and please him otherwise I would be homeless. And what 12 year old is going to leave home to go it alone. In adult relationships there may be aspects of dependance in terms of wanting to stay in a marriage for whatever reason, or fear of losing your home and the life you have come to know. Just like a child.
Do you really really believe that it matters if you are skinny or fat, or short or tall, messy or clean?? I'm not religious, but I'm pretty sure no 'higher power' is going to 'condemn' you for such minor things either. It sounds to me like it wouldn't matter to your husband, a man with a personality disorder if you were skinny or not. I think the reason he says kind, flattering things, then nasty things is like I said before - he's saying the nasty things to blame you to make himself feel better and not take responsibility for his actions. Yes, it hurts to hear it, but it's not about you. You don't need to depend on him to tell you who you are! You were you before you ever met him. What is making you buy into his rubbish?
I won't attempt to answer the question meant for tiger..but it did make me think of something that I recently read. It made me take a hard look at a few things. What I read was that "we are the creators of our own lives" and we have a part in every situation just by being present. Even at the most basic level, we choose to marry these people, we choose to stay or go, we choose to act and /or react. Even in cases that seem totally out of our control, our actions have somehow brought us to that point in time. Furthermore, the book says that our lives as we create it is an illusion. At first I thought that sounded rediculous, but as I read on it said that that the illusions are created by our own minds and what WE think is happening. I guess I can compare that to how a spouse feels about themselves after years of being told they are no good, fat, ugly useless etc. They become the victim and play the roll of a victim. It's not true but somehow they begin to believe it. That is the illusion.
Christy
Wow!!! little by little I feel myself getting healthier just by hearing/reading positve affirmations such as this and the 2 other posts after this. I can feel the "I am woman, hear me roar" song in my head and it feels really good. I don't like being a victim, but I guess it still hurts and I know the consequences of getting "bucky" with him. But, make no mistake about it, with God's people (you guys included) I will get this idea out of my head that I was put on this earth to be his doormat. God--I know I don't deserve this.
lin0606 wrote: We allow them to control us by giving in to their tactics - this is something that I have taken a long time to learn, and am still learning. After all, why should 'the silent treatment' control you, or his pouts? Many of us are 'people pleasers' - it hurts when we know that someone is angry at us, or displeased in any way. However, this is not REAL, it is just something in us, our sickness.
When my kids were small (and even now, sometimes) they would say things like "I hate you, mommy" when I wouldn't do what they wanted. I didn't like this much, but really, it had no effect on my actions. It didn't make me say "oh, no, well in that case you don't have to go to bed". I just ignored it. However, when my husband used exactly the same tactics on me, it felt like the world was ending. He knew that, and so used his displeasure to control me. He had power over me because I loved him, and wanted him to be happy, and he abused that power. When I try to see what the difference was, between the two, what I can see is that I knew my kids loved and needed me, and would not leave. They would get over their mad, and life would go on. However, my husband always kept me a bit off balance - I was never sure of his love, and had to keep 're-earning' it, over and over. If I had been a healthy person, with good self esteem, when I met him, it wouldn't have taken long before I would have said "No. Nice guy but too many problems" and left. As it was, though, I allowed him to play these games with me. I played along, for all those years. At any time, I could have said "No" and walked, or I could have said "No", and stopped worrying about whether he would be mad, and just done what I thought was right anyway. So what if he sulked or was silent, or yelled and screamed, for that matter? But I chose not to - I chose to believe that the world would end if he was mad at me. That's my part in it.
I can relate totally. I also believed that the world would end if he was mad at me. Why do I really care if he is mad at me or not? It's just that the reasons he got mad and dismissed me like a child are so ridiculous and infuriating. Like how after stopping drinking for 24 years prior, then he finally started to go to AA 2 years ago, and I went to Alanon, but I really had questions and wanted to understand. My fatal question one time was" If 2 people have polar opposite needs, who trumps? For that he got mad and raged and gave me the silent treatment for about a week. I remember trembling and crying knowing that I might have "blown it." I wanted a normal family so bad that my wants, feelings, opinions, questions didn't matter anymore. Everything that came out of my mouth I truly believe he thought was a criticism of him. And it wasn't. It was just a question. My God, he has got to be the most thin-skinned person on the face of the earth. The hard part now, and I guess I did it to myself, was letting him disrespect me in front of our 3 kids. 21, 19 and 15. The 2 older ones can be unbelievably disrespectful toward me because they saw their father do it and it gave them permission to do it also. My 15 year old is my buddy tho and lives with me and is the most like me personality-wise. Thank God for Jordan. And Thank God for you guys. The pep talks help so much.
You are only a 'volunteer' if you are letting what he says get into your head and re-play over and over like a broken record. Volunteer means 'hey, here I am, I'll be part of this of my own free will, I am willingly going to participate in this madness'. No one is forcing you to live as he descibes you, and he doesn't have to live based on how you make him feel.
I sensed in your post that you still have a lot of negative talk going on inside your head.. I used to be this way too. I think mine may have come from having a father that would say lots of terrible untrue things to me for no apparent reason. But the thing is, we can tend to believe what they say, especially in a parent-child relationship, because we depend on them. I had to take what he said and not talk back, and please him otherwise I would be homeless. And what 12 year old is going to leave home to go it alone. In adult relationships there may be aspects of dependance in terms of wanting to stay in a marriage for whatever reason, or fear of losing your home and the life you have come to know. Just like a child.
Do you really really believe that it matters if you are skinny or fat, or short or tall, messy or clean?? I'm not religious, but I'm pretty sure no 'higher power' is going to 'condemn' you for such minor things either. It sounds to me like it wouldn't matter to your husband, a man with a personality disorder if you were skinny or not. I think the reason he says kind, flattering things, then nasty things is like I said before - he's saying the nasty things to blame you to make himself feel better and not take responsibility for his actions. Yes, it hurts to hear it, but it's not about you. You don't need to depend on him to tell you who you are! You were you before you ever met him. What is making you buy into his rubbish?
What is making me buy into his rubbish? I don't know but with the help of my therapist and you guys, I will find out or die trying. I will not give up until I become the person that God intended for me to be. The one I was before I met him. Even before the age of 18 when we were high school seniors and started dating, I had more self-esteem than I do now at 50. What is so weird tho is that I became everything that I know he wanted and now he dumps me. I know that I am thin, attractive, smart, outgoing, fun, funny, well read, adventerous, and even have some money. I can talk to anyone about anything and have virtually no enemies. Everyone likes me, but not so much him. Sometimes I wonder if he is jealous of the way I am able to interact with people, and the fact that it is so hard for him, and the way he always sticks his foot in his mouth and pisses people off, or comes off as angry and demanding and cold and fake. Why do I still love him? The only reason I can come up with is that he CAN be charming and kind to me and acts like he loves me when he wants to. There had to be some good times in there otherwise I wouldn't have stayed for 28 years. The thing that hurts me the most tho, is that once he said we didn't have intimacy. I was flabbergasted that he even knew how to say the word. He didn't even know the meaning of intimacy. Everytime I opened myself up to him and told him my deepest darkest secrets and became vulnerable, he would use it against me at a later time. That's what A's do. They take the very best part of you and use it against you.So guess what folks, after a while I didn't allow myself to be vulnerable with him anymore. After a while you learn.
I love you guys, you can't know how much you are helping me through this, and I intend to be a success story.
I've been in your shoes. Please get out of that relationship. You can't love him into not hurting you. It's NOT your fault that he's a wife beater. And that is what he is. Domestic violence works in steps. Without intervention, one of you could end up dead. He needs anger management. Without that, he's a lost cause. Go to a shelter if you need to, but leave while you can. Stop being his punching bag and scapegoat. In my case, this behavior was always related to alcohol. You do need to take care of yourself. You need a support group, you need a lawyer, you need a safe place. You are the victim of physical, verbal and emotional abuse. Living with a docile drunk is one thing, living with a violent one is another. He might be drinking again, if he had ever really quit to begin with. My husband went to AA meetings. He took up a chair and drank the coffee. Then he came home and got drunk again and told me what losers those people were. How he was sober compared to them. All he did was deride them. One night he got really toasted, pulled out about half my hair, threw me around the house, trashed the bedroom, then went across the street and told our neighbor that I was the one doing it and had her call the police. (This wasn't the first time) Since it was to our house, about half the county showed up and were ready to put me in jail until they talked to our oldest son and actually looked at the marks on me. They don't like to put one of their own into jail and couldn't justify locking me up, so they decided to ask me to leave the house so they wouldn't have to arrest him for DUI. I was expecting it to end up like it used to before we divorced, with me being the bad guy and all the police watching me constantly. But this time his chief got involved and told him it was either rehab or turn in his badge. I'm sharing all this just to let you know that I really DO know what you're going through. Good luck with this and God bless you, Snoopy.
I've been in your shoes. Please get out of that relationship. You can't love him into not hurting you. It's NOT your fault that he's a wife beater. And that is what he is. Domestic violence works in steps. Without intervention, one of you could end up dead. He needs anger management. Without that, he's a lost cause. Go to a shelter if you need to, but leave while you can. Stop being his punching bag and scapegoat. In my case, this behavior was always related to alcohol. You do need to take care of yourself. You need a support group, you need a lawyer, you need a safe place. You are the victim of physical, verbal and emotional abuse. Living with a docile drunk is one thing, living with a violent one is another. He might be drinking again, if he had ever really quit to begin with. My husband went to AA meetings. He took up a chair and drank the coffee. Then he came home and got drunk again and told me what losers those people were. How he was sober compared to them. All he did was deride them. One night he got really toasted, pulled out about half my hair, threw me around the house, trashed the bedroom, then went across the street and told our neighbor that I was the one doing it and had her call the police. (This wasn't the first time) Since it was to our house, about half the county showed up and were ready to put me in jail until they talked to our oldest son and actually looked at the marks on me. They don't like to put one of their own into jail and couldn't justify locking me up, so they decided to ask me to leave the house so they wouldn't have to arrest him for DUI. I was expecting it to end up like it used to before we divorced, with me being the bad guy and all the police watching me constantly. But this time his chief got involved and told him it was either rehab or turn in his badge. I'm sharing all this just to let you know that I really DO know what you're going through. Good luck with this and God bless you, Snoopy.
Thank you so much for the post. I can feel the love here and it is a driving force to get better. He did go to anger management about 18 years ago. He threw a chair across the dining room and our little girl about 2 years old was in the room and started crying; she was scared of the big noise and his yelling and raging. I told him that he had to get help or get out because of Courtney if for no other reason. Well, he did go for a short time, but it didn't do any good. He reported to me that he told the counselor that WE needed to get help, and the counselor was a woman's advocate and told him that, no, HE needed help with HIS anger. I was so relieved that finally someone "got it". Unfortunately it didn't work and periodically he would rage and act like an asshole right up until 6 months ago when he left. Even tho I would have never ended the marriage, my therapist said "he did you a favor". I am writing a book about my life and copied some of the pages for her to read and she said she cried when reading them. She said, "you are an abused woman and you need to go to see someone at Hands of Hope, the battered woman's group. It's amazing how I minimized and denied what went on for all those years. They told me it was survival. I was in a survival mode. I had a part in this too. I stayed. If they do it once, well, everyone can make a mistake, but the second time I should have thrown him out, and I didn't, and that is something I will have to live with for the rest of my life. I am so ashamed. Why didn't I think I deserved to be treated with love and respect? I didn't grow up in this kind of environment and remember being baffled at the strange and unpredictable behavior. I thought it was exciting, but in all reality, most of it was anxiety and fear. I want to get well so bad. Thanks for posting and listening.
Wow you pretty much summed it all up right there, Snoopy. You sound soo much better already compared to the start of this, and making lots of breakthroughs.
If only I had found this site when I was going through that kind of thing in my life. And thank you for sharing your experience, it's good food for thought.
