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I have read on posts here re: allowing fathers to see their children if fathers are drinking. I have read that legally fathers who are drinking do not have to be allowed to see the children. How much drinking are we talking about here? Is there a limit? Who determines? Is there a test? And now my real question: if fathers who are drinking are not allowed to see their children, is it OK for mothers to take their children to parties and events where others are drinking? Say there is a neighbor's party, mother and children go, everyone drinks but no one is labeled an A for it. Is this OK? Just wondering as I see it happening in several situations to which I am an audience.
Hmmmmm...good question. Now in my experience, children have not been invited to parties where drinking is going to be going on. So I would not take the kids.
How much can Dad drink and still see the kids? I don't have any experience in that situation either, but one drink is enough for me to tell Dad that the kids cannot go in a car with him. Maybe sounds tough, but I would never be willing to chance the safety of my children. If he doesn't like it, he can go find himself a judge who might be willing to listen to him. How much can he drink before he cannot even SEE them? I don't know. I guess it is a personal judgment call. If he is definitely under the influence though, the door won't open to let him in.
OK, so sooner or later the kids have to come to an understanding of what is wrong with Dad. They will discover that soon enough. Protect them while you can.
This is not to be misconstrued with advice...mine are merely suggestions.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I agree with Diva in that the kids should not be at a party where the celebration is with alcohol. If it is a celebration for a child's b-day or whatever for the child or the young adult who is graduating from high school...it is their celebration and should not include alcohol. It is not necessary to be "feeling good" for every occasion.
I guess to some.....it is!!!
A son visits his children at my house. He doesn't drink there and is not even allowed to talk to them on the phone if he calls after drinking a few.
I don't know any of the laws concerning this - but what does your inner self say? Are you uncomfortable bringing your children around people who are drinking even if it is a "social" or casual drinking situation?
Do the parents who just have one or two drinks still respect the children's boundaries with one or two drinks? Does it make the children uncomfortable? How does it affect them?
It may not be illegal, but if it makes you or the children uncomfortable then maybe you can avoid that situation.
So, what works for you - what works for your children?
In recovery, we get to make the decisions about somethings in our lives - who I decide I want to spend time with is one of those decisions.
Rita
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
Imho, I think there is a difference between a gathering of alcoholics drinking, and a gathering of social drinkers. Not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic. I feel it is important for my own children to understand this. That there are people who can drink responsibly. That there is a difference here. That having one drink does not mean you have to finish the whole bottle when you start.
When I was growing up, my parents would have social gatherings with people from our church. Adults and children both. The adults would often have a glass of wine or a beer. No one got drunk. The children had sodas. It was all age appropriate and responsible.
I would not attend a gathering where adults offered alcohol to minors. Obviously something very wrong with that.
To me it is a matter of teaching responsibility. Whether it be in drinking, in driving a car, in work ethics, or whatever. Children can learn by watching others who do these things in a responsible way. They are smart enough to see the difference, and the one thing that I would really hate to see with my kids...is for them to develop some kind of phobia type thinking that everyone who has a drink is automatically an alcoholic. That simply is just not true.
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Let your light shine in the darkness. "I can't just bring my mind to meetings...I must also bring my heart."
Because I do not drink...have always been a tee-totaler, I think anyone who has even one alcoholic drink drinks too much. Doesn't mean I think everyone who has a drink is an alcoholic; I simply feel it is not necessary for any purpose. I am not a religious zealot; just can't see the reason.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
For my family, this works - at least for now. Since I left 3 months ago, I won't allow my AH to see the kids when he's drinking. When he's drinking, there's no middle ground - he's drunk from the time he wakes until he passes out again. As a result, he's seen them only three times in three months. Of course, he lost in license, so I have to drive them to him. And I haven't let them in a car with him driving since before my youngest was born (and she'll be four at the beginning of January).
If they're around him when he's drinking, they worry about him. My almost-6-year-old son was upset at school this afternoon during a holiday party. His teacher is retiring, and someone brought in a bottle of sparkling apple juice to toast her. He saw the bottle, grabbed my arm and said "Mommy - ALCOHOL!" It took me a good five minutes to assure him it was only apple juice and that his teacher would never let the kids have something that could hurt them.
Other members of my family drink responsibly. They will have a glass of wine or a beer at a family celebration, and that's the end of it. My kids don't even notice that. But as long as I know drinking will upset them, we'll steer clear of anything else where alcohol is involved. I've promised my kids I won't drink, and after living with my A for the past decade, it's no great loss. The smell alone would turn me away. I'd rather have my kids confident that at least one parent will ALWAYS be able to take care of them.
My oldest just asked me if we can go see Daddy sometime this week, since they're on vacation from school. This is our first Christmas apart. I was happy to be able to tell her that if all goes as planned, we'll spend the afternoon of Christmas Eve with him. I'm sorry he has to be alone on Christmas, but I can't invite him to my mother's house, and that's where we're living now. He's made the choices that have brought us to this point, and he's got to live with the consequences. But he is still Daddy, and they love and miss him. I've got to make it work if I can, for their sakes.
As to the issue of allowing children at a party where adults will be drinking - I can't imagine not allowing that. Alcohol has always been part of celebrations, not just in this culture, but in most human cultures. To my mind, letting my experience with my A colour my attitude to normal drinking is letting his disease control me yet again. My parents always had beer and wine in the house, we children were allowed a small sip on special occasions, and I never saw my parents even tipsy, let alone drunk. I think it is important for children, especially the children of alcoholics, to learn that normal people can have a glass of wine, or a beer, enjoy it for what it is, and then stop. That said, I never had my kids at occasions where people were getting drunk. Not all parties that serve alcohol are drunken bashes.
I think you need to use your own judgement about parties, and that includes your judgement of the people who will be there.
As to allowing an A father to see his children, you really might want to talk to a lawyer about that, and get some clear idea of what you can and can't do. You'd probably feel better if you had some clear firm guidelines to go by.
