The material presented
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I have yet to make it to a f2f meeting. I was hoping to go to one this morning but I have other obligations I can't get out of, so I will have to wait until next week.
I have been reading alot of the posts here on the board, and I have to admit I find some the alanon suggestions difficult.....such as detaching, not yelling or screaming when my AH goes on one of his binges etc. Part of me feels I have every friggin' right to yell and scream if I have to wake up in the morning and find a condom in his pocket (which just happened this past weekend), or that he's spent his entire pay doing God knows what, or who....which also just happened. Detach?? He's my husband. I know someone might say "Detach from the disease, not the man".....but unfortunatly at this time almost everything about "The man" seems to be infected with "The Disease".
No doubt, I hate the situation....and the easiest thing I could do for myself is leave my AH.....but life isn't always easy. I know there ARE people who have actually QUIT drinking. Maybe he'll be one of them...maybe he won't be. I know this much....I know he has absolutely no one in this world who truely cares about what happens to him except me...and I find that sad. I know if I leave him, he will not get better.....but worse...much worse. I know he has been through alot of crap because of his addictions and any one of them could have been someone elses "bottom", but they weren't enough to be his, so I fear the only bottom for him would be something he can't come back from, and I don't know how to begin to let him go for my own reasons, knowing that I would be possibly killing him.
I know alanon says "I can't save him".....................why can't I? Or at the very least, help him save himself?
So far.....I have been the person he has to be at least somewhat accountable to.....he has no problem lying to himself or others, and doesn't live in reality. With no one to be accountable to, the damage he can cause himself or other is unmeasurable. I don't let him get away with that....I ask questions, I check things out.....if he's lied, or told "stories", I call him on it. If I call his boss and find out he's left work early, sometimes I can catch him in the middle of a binge and bring him home....was that helpful? I don't know, but I know he's not going to be laying dead anywhere the next day because he's home. According to what I've read, everything I do is wrong........but......I don't know how to ignore him or what's happening to him, or detach from my husband....who IS the disease at this point.
So, one of my questions is.....he's been through rehab. It went well, I trusted him, never questioned him, and actually started to forget that maybe I shouldn't trust him 100 %......he went drinking. Every since then, he has continued to go to meetings here and there....but has never really stopped drinking since his slip in June. He thinks because he quits between Monday and Thursday, and then "slips" every Friday when he gets paid.....well....that means he's quit.....I call it broke until Friday, but whatever. Since his first slip, his sponsor sort of bailed on him, and he hasn't had one since then. I have tried to ask him about it, I get no real response at all. He skips meetings, he doesn't read his books......so question.....
How to encourage him to go to meetings, get a sponsor, etc, etc... the "right" way? Without it turning into an argument or being seen as nagging or whatever. Is there a way to approach an A about these things without them become defensive or shutting down? Does alanon offer any advice on this? Does anyone have any tips or suggestions on things that worked for them?
Hi alora_red. Yep, fact is you DO have every right to yell and scream. But think about this; what does it get you? His cooperation? His sobriety? His understanding? Anything? Resoundingly no. Yelling and screaming is only serving to keep you upset. It doesn't make sense to have a needless heart attack. All you get is a temporary feeling of having your say. Other than that, it accomplishes nothing.
Do try to attend f2f meetings. You can learn other methods that can help, but the focus will be on helping YOU and not the A. We who must cope with this addiction must do so in a way that keeps us from becomming as sick as the A is. As an aside, AlAnon says you cannot save him simply because you cannot. It's up to him to save himself, and up to him to decide when the time is right, if it ever is , to do that. Remember, you did not cause this, you cannot control it, and you cannot cure it. This is an AlAnon slogan that I truly live by.
Meantime, my thoughts and prayers are with you. We all understand how you feel. We've all been there.
With caring, Diva
-- Edited by Diva at 09:55, 2006-12-07
-- Edited by Diva at 10:02, 2006-12-07
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I am so sorry for the pain, confusion, frustration, aggravation, etc, etc, etc, that you are in. This disease is horrible!!!! It is amazing how it can devastate so many lives!!!
I do believe I understand where you are coming from. I too thought I was being helpful when I would find my AH whereever he had gone and "guilt" him by my presence into coming home. I can say I have never had to deal with other women, so I can't tell you how I handled that or give story there. I do know that I felt that I was the only one who truly cared about him and I thought if I "supported" him that things would eventually turn out o.k. He too went into rehab and then slipped. It took a year for him to really get back into the program--and this was done due a broken jaw. Many people go in and out of the program many times before they stick it out if they ever make it back in!!!! (This is very unfortunate and sad.)
It is so hard to sit back and watch the person you love literally waste away! There are so many here who are right though! How old is your husband? If we always take care of them (and I was /still am at times so guilty of this too!!!) when will they learn to take care of themselves. I don't know how you feel about the HP concept. But I believe we all have one and I am not my HP. (I didn't even realize I was trying to be until I really starting looking at what I was doing!!!!!) It isn't my job to make sure my husband can work, will show up to work, will be sober. I want those things, he should want those things, but in the end he has to be accountable for himself. We know how great life can be w/o the alcohol/drugs. We want them to realize the same thing. Their bottoms are not our bottoms.
I was preparing everything this summer to make my husband leave. Then he got his jaw broken, went back to AA and has been really working the program. I was so sick and tired and being sick and tired!!! And I was so tired of being the only one concerned about how sick he was!!! I was taking on his side of the street though---I couldn't keep my side clean and his side! It just doesn't work.
I do know that just b/c we question them, and yell at them and try to point out what the problem is, that doesn't make them better--it doesn't turn that light bulb on for them. I still have a hard time with biting my tongue when I really want to tell him how I think he ought to react about something, or do something.
I know nothing I have said has probably eased your mind! I am sorry. I just want you to realize that there truly isn't anything you can do to make it better. He has to do it, he has to want it--for himself, he has to be the one to do anything to get it!! We have to do anything it takes to keep us sane!!!
Please keep reading and posting. Read "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drew (I could have this author name wrong--I have a bad memory), but it is an excellent book. Also a good book is Codependent No More by Melodie Beatty (not al-anon approved lit., but a very good book nontheless.)
Keep coming back and I hope you can find time to go to a F2F soon.
First off I just want to say I'm really glad you are here. You ask all the right questions , and there are answers here. I feel the urgency of your post and hope that you will give Alanon at least a six meeting try before deciding whether this is or isn't for you. Please keep in mind that all the answers you are looking for won't come in the first meeting.
I know you feel that you AH sponsor bailed on him, but he didn't. You can only sponsor someone who is willing to try, his sponsor probably sees that he has more drinking to do before he is ready. Remember there is no one that can make a person become sober, and if by the odd chance they do get sober for someone/thing then they're setting their sobriety up to fail if that person/thing fails them. They have to do it for themselves.
I hear your desire to control something that is really not controlable. Please read as much as you can about addictions/alcoholism. His addiction at this moment is what is in control. You may think he doesn't care, well he cares...only it's about where his next drink will come from, when it will be or how he can work it out to get it. This disease is awful.
The thing we learn in alanon is how to keep the focus on us. Once someone said to me, "Do you really think your A thinks about you as much as you think about him." For me the question really was When didn't I think about my A? I had given up my life to obsess about his, where he was, what he was doing, why he didn't "see" how his behaviour was destroying his life and mine. If he could only "see" --and I was determined to show him, make him see. It's exhausting. I lost who I was. I lost friendships. I gave up all the things I like to do -- or forgot that I had anything in my life that I could enjoy.
For as much as I tried to control his drinking and actions -- I lost control of mine. I became something I didn't like, a monitor/mother to a grown man. I became angry and mean. (Cause hey if he didn't hear me the first time I'm sure he'd hear me if I yelled it LOL) I forgot what it was like to have a day where worry, concern, anger and furry weren't a part of it.
This program is about us, and for us. It is a selfish program, one that shows us how we can continue to live and have serenity whether the A is drinking or not. I can tell you from personal experience that it is possible. It can help you to see thru the disease to the person you once knew and loved, it can help you to learn how to detach and take care of yourself, it can help to bring joy back to your life. Too often we hold our happiness on the contengency that "if he'd just change/act right" then I'd be happy. You can be happy anyhow.
There is so much to learn here. I wish I could give it to you in one big beautiful basket, but it's a process. I'm so glad you have come thru these door. You are about to start on a journey that, as difficult as it is, is fantastic.
Welcome to the MIP family. Here you will find great experience, strength, hope, wisdom and just a bit of humor. Good for the .
I know those feelings so well. The temptation is great to yell and scream. Trust me I have picked a fight more than once when hubby was drinking. We all know how futile that is. Yes it did make me feel better. But as Diva said, where does it get you? Of course we have the right to be upset. Their disease has a horrible impact on us. His disease may explain his actions, but it doesn't justify them. Try and keep that in mind.
You are not responsible for his drinking. You didn't Cause It. You can't Cure it. You can't Control it. His rock bottom will be different from my husband's and from others. What we think should be their rock bottom, often times isn't.
When you start on your journey of recovery you will come to understand the tools we use. Your recovery has to be about you and for you regardless if he chooses sobriety or not. It's about taking back your life. Whether or not you choose to stay is your choice and we make no judgements here. I choose not to be with my husband while he was active. It was the hardest most difficult thing I ever had to do. It was also the best thing and most empowering thing I ever did for myself. I wil never live with an active A again. But just because I made him leave, doesn't mean that I didn't love him. I did. I just choose the path that was right for me. I didn't know what would happen when he left. I was afraid that he would die. But as much as I love him, I will not die for his disease. I would give my life for him, but not for this. If I hadn't found this program, I never could have made the decisions that I needed to.
Miracles do happen. We recover. We get better. We get stronger. As we work our program we are able to make decisions that are in our best interests and our families. Hubby is now 6+ sober and I still work my program. The dynamics of sober marriage vs. an active marriage change. I find I take the tools of Alanon and apply them at work and in my daily routine.
Glad you're with us. Please keep coming back. Welcome home.
Love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong,
Karilynn & Pipers Kitty <---the cat
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
Welcome to our MIP Family. So glad that you have decided to join us, but hate that you have been affected by this awful disease.
Please know the replies here are filled with love & compassion. Probably all of us have been exactly where you are emotionally - I know that I have. I post how I have used recovery (Al-Anon) to help heal from the affects of this disease. This is my opinion. Take what you like & leave the rest. Please remember that as you read this post.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That is what I did for over 10 yrs with my AH trying to help him quit drinking & using. It never worked. There is probably not another person on the face of the Earth that loves that man more than I do, but there is nothing absolutely nothing I could do get him sober. Well, I guess there was one - let him go - give him to a power greater than myself.
That is what I have learned to do in these rooms of recovery. There is more than one alcoholic/addict in my life - some are in recovery, some are not. I can live a life filled with peace, serenity, joy and freedom regardless of the actions of my loved ones. Do I still fill pain? Yes. Do I still fill hurt by some of their actions? Yes. But I can lovingly detach and take care of myself, go to a meeting or come to this site & get the love & support that I need.
I hope that you will be able to attend that f2f meeting soon. My home group usually suggest to try 6 meetings before deciding if Al-Anon is for you. Please keep reading, posting & reaching out - we would love to share our experience, strength and most of all Hope with you.
Don't give up before the miracles happen in You - You deserve them.
Learning to live Happy, Joyous & Free - One Day at a Time,
Rita
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
I feel we have every right to yell and scream, but as others have said, and from my own experience, it does no good at all. The only thing that comes from it is raising my blood pressure, lol. No matter what we say, or how we say it, they are not going to hear it until they are ready to.
I found that the less I yelled, nagged and whined at him the better I felt and the better we got along. There was less tension and stress all the way around. The more time I spent on getting myself better the more time he had alone with his own issues, since I was no longer participating in them. This also, in a way, forced him to start facing things, the disease I once actively particiapted in and shared with him was now his alone to deal with. I made sure he knew I would be there 100% when he was ready to start dealing with things, but until then I had better things to do. He eventually came around and started to take on his recovery, and I am grateful for this. He has several months clean and sober now. It took us awhile to get where we are and it was in no way an easy road, but one that was well worth it. The way I needed to see things in the begining was that no matter the end result I needed to get myself healthy again. If he made it, I would be able to help support him. If he didn't make it, I would be able to support me and deal with any choices I would need to make and know that I was making a healthy decision and not just a reaction to chaos.
hi Alora, glad you are here and you keep coming back.
First you can do nothing to make him use,not use. You cannot stop him from getting sick or hurt or die. It is out of your hands.
Can you make it rain, part the sea, lift a dumptruck?Add to it, stop an A from using.
It is not our job to control anyone else. We cannot do it. Getting Them Sober, is a book that is my alanon Bible.
The fact is, they have to get sick and miserable enough to stop.Everytime we hunt them down, drag them home, bring them in from being asleep somewhere,check on them, we are not helping them. We are enabling the disease to cont. We make them comfortable when they need to feel every awful thing it is to be an A.
What we do in alanon is change us. We cannot change anyone else. Fighting, arguing, yelling, hey it is just what the A disease wants. It is controlling you. I don't know about you but I do not want a sick disease controlling me.
Plus when we act that way, the A disease uses it against us. When we try to talk to them, about them, they will do their darndest to change the subject to, well you are a b yelling at me all the time and arguing and blah blah blah.
I can tell you, we can be the most perfect person in the world and the A will make up something to change the focus on you. They cannot face how horrible they are. They cannot face the guilt they feel.
When my A would be obnoxious, I would leave the room or the house. I will read or whatever. I will not give it the satisfaction of my attention. It is like giving cancer my attention.
After awhile it realized I did not want to play anymore. He would do whatever, I would say,"hey it is not something I would do but it is your choice." Period. I washed my hands of any involvement when he was using.
We need to be the strong ones, it is no different than a diabetic having low blood sugar. When they are like that, there is NOTHING you can do to get them to do anything. Of course they can get sugar and be better. But when they are hypoglycemic, same as an A, they are insane.
When we argue and all that, we are arguing with a sick insane person with a pickled brain.
Hey I did all you do. I watched my A for years turn from a handsome country boy into a stickman who has tried to kill himself 3 or more times. I no longer hunt him down, I don't give him a dime. I may know where he is, but am not sure. He has no one but me. And the disease hates me. I won't feed it or play with it,and it's greatest nightmare... I KNOW WHAT IT IS THINKING AND KNOW WHAT IT WANTS.
An A's greatest hate is alanon. It is like a spy who finds out someone knows every one of it's secrets.
My A has been in gutters, he has been zapped back alive. He may be dead now. I will get the call sooner or later. I cannot control it alora. None of us can.
We can only educate ourselves, become better people. Learn to take one day at a time. Protect our finances and our homes and most of all too, our children. Also knowing what you do, be careful, he may have diseases now.
Do you want anyone to try to change you? Do you think yelling at you would make you want to do anything? Would putting you in a rehab to lose weight work? If you did not put yourself there with determination to get better, no it would not work.
Plus relapse, not "slips" is part of being A. It is rare an A does not relapse. They are always a second away from using.
Trust has nothing to do with it. Would you trust cancer or ms or any other disease in remission? no.
We set up our lives so the A disease cannot take anything from us but him or her.
I am so sad you are where you are. But am so encouraged you are here.
Hey you have one baby, who needs an adult one? plus think about how refreshing it will be when you learn to not hunt for him or check on him or enable him. You can think about you adn your baby.
Glad you are here. love to you and your a and child, debilyn
Well I definitely felt justified in screaming and carrying on for a long long time. That's what I did. I ended up totally exhausted obsessed and fed up. I also ended up very very depressed.
Since I've stopped the screaming and ranting I've started focusing on me. I know the A is acting out in various ways. I don't wonder why the past is a good indicator of the present and he's probably still at it. I also have no doubt his plan for Christmas is the same as normal go get loaded with his brother.
Lately in Al-anon I've been working on not letting his addiction and his acting out control me. I've railed, raged, cajoled, worked at, tried to change and did everything my way and it got me nowhere. So I tried another way. I say very very very little to the A when he is using. I don't have much to say actually when it comes down to it.
I was one of those yes but people when I came here. My rage came out of every pore of me. How dare he, how could he, I'm going to stop him, I'm going to show him, I'm going to make him. That didn't change one thing. He still used, still drank, still caused chaos all over the place.
I allowed his addiction to totally control me. I lived with a sense of impending doom all the time. That is a pretty hard way to live. I was needless to say always sick during the years I lived raging, controlling and my resentment level was so so toxic.
These days I know I lost total control a long long time ago. I lost sight of what I want in a relationship it became all about him and his addiction and being willing to do anything to make him stop. The issue is that nothing I did ever made him stop, no matter what demand, no matter what I gave him nothing made stop. Here we are at yet another Christmas and I know the pinnacle of his holiday is to get loaded with his brother. That's his plan that is what he will do and there is nothing I can do to change that. I used to believe if I cooked the perfect meal, made the perfect home, gave the perfect present, planned the perfect trip that would change it. I went to a lot of lengths to try to get my needs met by him. The issue is that my needs are very very much secondary to his addiciton that is in control not my needs, not the bills, not his health not nothing.
Surrendering was pretty tough for me. I raged about it a whole lot. I fought I resented my way to lots of sick beds. I also resented my way to lots of poverty. I rescued the A so many times I lost count of them and I lost control of my wallet too. Nothing changed he still wasn't much interested in my needs or my concerns. He may never be.
Overinvolvement has been my middle name for a long long time. I've been there over involved with lots of friends, jobs, situations. I have had a long hard time learning how to detach and look at me. A friend really helped me last month when I really broke down over yet another A chaos/crisis. Since then I've been focused on everything but the A and for once I have started to feel happy. For once I am not consumed with what he's going to do next. I'm not even that concerned about that he will be loaded at Christmas same as normal but I can own that is the reality these days wheras I was always trying to make it otherwise. If he is loaded I am not going to consume myself with resentment about it anymore. I will have alternative things to do like focus on my projects goals and reality.
Of course you are angry. Of course you have every right to be angry. The issue for me as a recovering codependent is not to have that anger consume me or have it smother my issues and needs. Recently I got in touch of some of what I want in a relationship. The A I am with has not provided that for years. I lost sight of that. I want that I deserve that. I don't deserve to have every moment consumed with what is he going to do next or need next. Whatever he needs he can attend to because my job is no longer to try to make him sober. That's his choice not mine. I gave that back to him and regret ever taking it on.
Every day I start over with a decision not to let resentment and guilt and regret consume me.
, and there are answers here. I feel the urgency of your post and hope that you will give Alanon at least a six meeting try before deciding whether this is or isn't for you. Please keep in mind that all the answers you are looking for won't come in the first meeting.
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Welcome home.
