The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Every day someone says, "We don't give advice here." Hmmmm... what about the AlAnon approved advice.
Every day someone says, 1. Find an f2f meeting. 2. Take care of you. 3. Let him/her hit bottom. 4. Do not enable him/her.
If this isn't advice, I don't know what is. Call it by some other name if you wish, but it is advice, pure and simple. Some are so confused about what is enabling and what isn't that they are arraid to show a thread of human compassion, help, or kindness for fear that they are "enabling" the addict.
Then along comes Diva who says what she thinks. Doesn't mean she's right; doesn't mean you have to accept her "advice." But she always responds with love and caring. And that is what we all need. Especially the newcomers. Think people. THinks for yourselves. When you trust your heart and mind, you're on the right track.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Some call it advice - I try to remember to say suggestions.
It's probably the same thing only different - but sometimes I feel like advice means that person may know what is better for me than I do. To me suggestions is a way to give me back the power of choice to decide what is right for me. For so long I didn't realize I had choices and then I didn't know how to make choices & healthy decisions. The soft suggestions of the program seemed to reach me in a special way.
You could look at advice the same way I guess - might just be which word you prefer.
Like most things in this program - It's all about what works for you - If it works for you and the people you work with in recovery, Diva, to call it advice, then I guess you can - for me I like suggestions.
As always, like your post - makes me look at the reasons why I do the things I do in recovery.
Love & Hugs,
Rita
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
Excellent post Rita. Suggestions. I will remember that descriptive word; I like it. It is people like you who make this come together for the good of all. I don't profess to know it all. Far from it. I am a newbie to AlAnon and alcoholism. I am sure that's apparent. But I question; always question. And that's a healthy thing to do.
Fondest regards and best wishes, Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
"ESH" and "Take want you like and leave the rest" say it all for me.
When I give ESH, I recognize that I cannot put myself in another's shoes. But, if I have experienced something similar to the situation in question, I can tell that person what happended to me, how I dealt with it, and what the result was. This allows the readers to form their own conclusion as to how my experience may or may not help them...take what they like and leave the rest.
I have always been told that advice falls in the catagory of telling someone what they should do with their life for example, Leave/divorce your A or kick the bumm out ect. We are specifically told not to tell others what they should do because we are not them or have the ability to know what is best for them. What is best for me might not be best for others. We are told in the steps to seek guidance from our HP to understand His will for us and the power to carry that out.
My sponsor says things to me like "What do the steps/traditions say." Is this advice, I guess you could consider it that. Alanon does tell us that we can have serenity whether the A is drinking or not if we apply the tools and steps of the program. Going to meetings, getting a sponsor ect. are ways of learning this program. Is that advice, maybe. Sharing what has worked for us like saying "I had to let him hit his bottom, my rescuing only kept him from seeking recovery." isn't advice, its ESH. Maybe it's how it's worded, we can tell someone they need to let them hit their bottom, that can be seen as advice. If we say "We're repeatedly told by A's that they must hit their bottom before they seek recovery." Then it's not.
If we want to, we could consider every Alanon slogan advice, "Think" "Respond, don't react." ect. For me, if I get that feeling of wanting to say "You need to...." then I'm crossing the line. Sharing this program, it's tools and what has helped me does not fall into the catagory of advice. I won't ever tell anyone they Must work the steps, but I do know that if they want to reap the benefits of this program then they need to be worked. I have been told "work the steps like you life depended on it." Advice maybe, I found it to be a truth.
As always you make me think. You're right it sounds like in many ways like advice. I like Rita's word: suggestion.
I have been to my local face to face meetings where I have been not advised but told that I had no business being there because I wasn't willing to leave my husband. Yeah right, I high tailed it out of there!
I agree with you completely, we must be compassionate about what we say to another person. we must remember that perhaps they are not ready to attend local f2f meetings or start the steps. The point is is that they came here for compassion and to know that they are not alone. I remember when I first came here, attend a meeting? find a sponsor? work the steps? I was having trouble just getting through the moments. How on earth could I even think about the rest?
Please, I beg you, to continue to say what you think. It's what keeps me on my toes.
Love and blessings to you and your family. Lots of love to all your critters!
Live strong,
Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
I am grateful for this topic because lately, I have been a little uncomfortable with some of the "advice" that has been offered on the board by a number of well-intentioned folks.
One of the first things that I learned when I started Al-Anon is that we do not tell anyone else what to do e.g., you should leave your A, you should file for divorce, you should kick the A out, you should take control of the money, you should....etc.... I was cautioned that my shares should be about me and should be about my experience, strength and hope so that others could "take what they liked and leave the rest."
I came to understand that this is because every situation is different and everyone has to come to the decision that is right for them in their own time and not in someone else's time. Also, it is difficult sometimes to ensure that the advice given is for the person's benefit and not actually advancing our own agenda or resentments or fears.
That being said, my take one the four items that you listed is that they are part of the Al-Anon program. They are guidelines that Al-Anons are encouraged to follow as part of working a program of recovery, however, they do so in their own time and hopefully with the support of a sponsor.
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Do not be anxious about tomorrow; tomorrow will look after itself. The Bible, from Courage to Change, p.138
For the record, Al-Anon encourages your first two points (go to meetings, and take care of yourself), but doesn't advise or encourage the other two....
I guess I'm offering up the alternative point of view here, but my main concern about us giving advice on here is that we are NOT experts, and simply don't know enough about an individual's circumstances or situation to be able to give out major advice such as whether to stay or leave from a marriage, etc., etc... We also don't really know the 100% truth about any scenario, as we are only reading the "writer's version of any truth", which may or may not be valid each and every time.
Sharing our own personal experiences is a powerful tool, and stops short of telling others what they should or should not do. My sponsor reminds me all the time, with kind of a play on words, that: "I don't should on people, and don't allow anybody to should on me".
All that being said, I also appreciate you on this board Diva, even if I don't feel comfortable all the time with the directness of advising people that they should do this or that. I know your heart is in the right place, and I am in a situation, today, where I can take or leave advice, and am healthy enough to do so.
Take care
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I try to suggest different things or if I have experienced it, give my own ESH. I stifle myself sometimes too when I want to scream "Get the heck outta there" !!! Or when someone stays in the same mental place, doesn't work the program, but continues to post and it's always the same problem month after month. I have to remind myself that we are all in different places of recovery and to some, the familiarity of their current lifestyle is easier for them then trying to recover and actually walk the walk. I used to want to say "get off the pity pot and work the program"!! (Well, I say it to myself..lol) Now I just skip over those posts. We can share, we can suggest ideas and we can offer ESH and it's really all a very fine line.
take care Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
One of the things I get from the board is reinforcement from others who have experienced what I am experiencing and and give me the courage to do what I think is right.
I have enabled my A Son for years with money and cars and running to fix. It took me a long time to realize that I wasn't getting anywhere except stopping him from feeling and experiencing the consequences of his own actions. But I was so scared to let go until I came here and f2f. He just spent 24 hours waiting and dialing in the Tampa airport until he found someone to buy him a ticket to NY. I was in tears the whole time thinking about what had happened to my sweet smart son, but I did know that buying him the ticket wouldn't make him stop drinking and if I did it would just perpetuate the miserable tread mill we are on. I know he gets it because yesterday he told me I was a fool for listening to that f**king Alanon crap.
So he manipulated someone to buy him the ticket and pick him up and drive him around so he can sell some of his stuff and go back to FL. But htis time it wasn't me.
We had hoped that spending the night in the airport with no money of ticket would be the bottom. We called a recovered friend in Tampa and he said he would call with an offer to take him somewhere for help, but my son must have recognized the name on caller ID and didn't pick up so he obviously hasn't found his bottom yet.
Do I firmly believe that an A has to hit bottom before he starts to recover? I don't know. I only know that nothing I have done so far has changed anything. I know that I feel a tiny bit better having something of a plan and that better than before.
hmmmm....I guess I am a bit different too...I keep thinking alanon is a 12 step program...it is about working the 12 steps with the help of a sponsor who has worked them before me. The only place I knew where to find someone I would want to share with on such an intimate level was at a face to face meeting...She would say to me..suggestion...i would think oh no...I knew I would be putting a pen to paper for a few hours. MIP is not alanon. At least it isn't in my opinion. There is so much more to the program and it all starts with face to face meetings. As far as sharing experiences on this board it has been great. It was wonderful when I was dealing with my son's addiction and hearing different ideas on how to effectively react instead of over react to situations. It is always easier to see things clearly when love and emotions are not involved. Glad u are here diva. Keep coming back.
In my mind, I believe that advice is telling someone, "You should leave him or her" or "Go find a job for yourself". I find that go to a f2f, keep the focus on you, one day at a time, and the many other Al-Anon slogans and suggestions are what have helped me in my recovery and these mantra help me pull myself back to healthy thinking and behaving - I'd be lost without them and sometimes get so mixed up in my obsessive thinking that I need someone to say those things to me. Gentle suggestions and possible alternatives to a situation have also helped me a great deal too.
Well..hmmmmm..there's advice and then theres ADVICE..LOL.
I struggle sometimes with keeping my opinions to myself. When I read something someone posts on here (or hear someone share in a meeting, or even outside of a meeting) that to me has such an obvious solution, such as leave that person or whatever!...I have to look back at my own life before al-anon. And I have to remember, it took all the things I went through to get me to where I am now. If I had had someone giving me "obvious" actions to take to "fix" my situation...and furthermore had I followed them, where would I be today. I have no idea. I do know, I like where I am now, and the only way I would be here is by going through what I went through.
I try to limit my "advice" the best I can, to sharing experiences I have had myself that may relate to the other person's situation. When I find myself thinking I have the solution to a situation I have not lived through, I just have to stop myself. Because I don't have all the answers. I cannot live someone else's life.
I am not perfect by any stretch, and do find my nose places it does not belong and my mouth spewing forth solutions at times. But when I catch myself is usually when I start getting a bad feeling inside. I know when I am crossing a line now between offering experience, strength and hope and trying to control someone else's actions.
Anyway great topic my friend! Hope you are keeping warm on the cold days we have been having!
In Al-Anon we have "suggestions" and "guidelines." We have the option to take what we like and leave the rest. What may work for some may not work for others. I can't pretend to know what works for someone else just because it may have worked for me. I don't offer advice because of that reason. Taking care of ourselves means I have to take my focus off the alcoholic and their drinking and put it on me. Going to meetings means I am around other people who are in similar situations and I can listen to them and hear their stories. Letting the alcoholic hit his or her bottom means they know they are ready to be sober for themselves and not because I hollered and screamed at them. Not enabling them means they will hit bottom on their own without a soft pillow to land on.
Many things in this program are not black and white. There are many shades of gray when it comes to people and their recovery. Choose what works for you and leave what doesn't.
Glad to have you here Diva and your wonderful opinions,
((((hugs))))) SenoraBob
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Higher Power doesn't always wrap presents in pretty paper.
Thanks for each and every one of your thought provoking responses. Whether you agree with what I say or not, I appreciate the civil manner in which you approach the disagreement. Shows me we all really are family. We accept one another for what and who we are. What could be better?
My continued very best wishes to all, Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
