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I have really been thinking hard lately about why it is that I keep picking A's and I have noticed a few things. Generally A's are intelligent, which is a draw for me. Also there is that edge of danger and excitement. They are fun in the beginning and usually great in bed. They are good at giving the appearance of love until they become totally consumed with whatever drug they are using at the time. Reviewing my past relationships, I have had a couple with non A's but they never lasted. Just an observation about myself.
I am not sure if everybody keeps picking A's for this reason, but I think I have done it because I have this odd idea that somehow I can "fix" the A's I have been with...maybe if we love them enough, or give them enough, they will see that life can be different...better without drinking...and I wonder if thats not the reason we keep staying...maybe were not trying hard enough to fix them or they dont think we love them enough or maybe their still missing something in their life that we can give them....I know in my heart that we cant fix this problem, and I wonder why we keep trying...Im new to the al-anon thing and hope to someday understand everything about this disease that I dont understand right now, but for now I think that is atleast part of the reason I have had A's in my life.
I never picked an A before, and hope never to again. Wouldn't have picked this one if I had known. Aism is definitely not something towards which I gravitate. But you are right; he IS great in bed!!!! *grin* Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
When I was maybe 6 months sober, I convinced my then-wife to try Alanon. She had already begun to refer to me in the third person, in my presence. Until I got sober, I wasn't an alcoholic in her eyes, but having gone to AA and labeled myself "one of them" she was kicking herself because she "did it again". Anyway, I guess she asked one of the oldtimers at her Alanon meeting "How do I see 'em coming?" and she said, "Honey, they see YOU coming!"
You'd think that the opposite would be true, that an A would be subconsciously seeking someone who had no prior experience (prior prejudice!) with an alcoholic, but both sides tend to shop the secondhand thrift store for well-used merchandise... LOL. I think that is because both sides have that A-ism of doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Most so-called "normal" people tend to view both alcoholics AND their current or former spouses/partners as "damaged goods" and keep their distance. So for the rest of us, we just have each other.
Regardless of the type of person I'm attracted to, I guess I'm fortunate in that for whatever reason, very few (let's see uh, one two, nope.. one... make that zero) women are attracted to me. I don't drink anymore, so I don't attract the fixers. I have some sobriety, but don't slather out the kind of BS that might make me into some kind of "High Sobriety" guru. I don't hit on every female that crosses my path simply playing percentages. And I certainly don't come off as normal enough to play in that market, and wouldn't even if I could.
All of these things are choices I realize. Even if I were to get into a relationship with someone who was NOT crazy, she would be after a few years around me. I think two crazy people under the same roof is a bad idea, although it can and does work for many. I find one to be enough. A person with traits *complimentary* to my own might sound ideal on paper, but that kind of attraction would be a relationship not of sharing but of consumption. It wouldn't really make much difference who consumed whom.
Five years ago, I stumbled across a woman (actually for the second time) that is so much like me, it's scary. She didn't look like me, or come from the same background, or have anywhere near the same life. But in a really core sort of way, she's more like me than anyone I've ever known. But completely, utterly lost, untreated, insane. My friends thought I had completely lost it to even hang out with her, nobody could see the analogy. But I know myself - a few different turns in life, but for the Grace of God... yikes. One strikingly similar characteristic we had was that we dealt with being overwhelmed by taking on even MORE. I mentioned this to her one time and her reaction was this sort of subdued, fake laugh which seemed to be concealing a recognition of sorts. Unfortunately, she wasn't ready for anyone - even a friend - who could see her that transparently.
It's strange how someone who was part of my life for such a short time could remain on my mind. I'll always have a certain curiosity about her, what she's up to.
If I were more of a wolfie, I could have married her in 2001. And probably divorced in 2002.
I tend to think that no one is attracted to me too but really you never know who is and just isn't sharing....
I have a lunch date with a guy from yahoo on Friday and I am sooo scared he'll think I'm too (fill in the blank). And then I think it's not like I have to sleep with him, go out with him, marry him, it's just lunch! I tend to get into all or nothing or frames of mind and over over over think stuff! This is where it helps to be busy and not have time for all that!
I tend to think that no one is attracted to me too but really you never know who is and just isn't sharing....
I am attracted to a lot of women, and I never "share". I like them too much to completely drive them away as friends. I get along very well with the opposite sex as long as the interaction remains on a "safe" level for both of us. The minute I indicate any interest - no matter how small - I'm basically choosing to alienate a friend. It's going to be over, right then and there. It's not a theory, I have decades worth of trial and error. I don't make the error very often anymore.
That seems so sad to me, but I guess whatever makes you happy. To each his own. Personally I'd take the risk if I was interested rather than be afraid of rejection. Everyone has fear of rejection at the top of their list of scary things! I feel like if you don't try you'll never know what could have been.
The risk isn't so much rejection as it is losing whatever friendship I do enjoy with the person. For whatever reason, expressing that interest guarantees that the door will be slammed on the friendship. The friendships seem to form based on a mutual "safety factor", and by stepping over that boundary, it seems to violate whatever trust there was in the friendship.
There are some harsh realities in the world of male-female relationships, and for those who have the "right" qualities - not always necessarily physical - these issues never come up and are probably incomprehensible. Various therapists, psychologists, self-help gurus, and online dating services make their bread and butter selling hope, and spreading this smoke screen that the person of your dreams may be just around the corner. It perpetuates denial.
Think of the last ten guys you have come across and had the thought, "NFW". Whether someone you actually knew, or met, or just passed by on the street - your brain went Enn Eff Dubbayou. Hey there! I'm one of those NFW guys. I know you all think NFW for me, but maybe ok for somebody else. "I think you'll meet somebody great someday" (somebody with lower standards than me... LOL) you get the picture.
I got lucky one time. A wandering comet from the outer reaches of the solar system came too close and got pulled into my gravity well for a while. I thought I was really something, somebody, you know. But deep down I just knew I was lucky, and the luck would run out. It did.
I know what I need to do to get the trophy. I'm capable of doing it. I just refuse to. If I were to do all that, and win the trophy, I'd despise the trophy because I'd know it was BS, and I made BS to get it. The only thing that is truly sad about it is the number of single people who are strung along, year after year, with the false idea of there being a "soul mate" or whatever, feeling forced and coerced into changing who they are to meet some societal standard that might be acceptable to the opposite sex.
I'd rather get on with life, I have a lot of things to do. Even if I met my dream girl tomorrow, it would be at the price of giving up half... two thirds even... of the things I still want to do. I have plenty of love, just no sex. And sex is a bodily function.
Barisax....I enjoyed reading your responses.I think you have nailed this issue.I like your realism and honesty.
I will be separating from my AH and I am already finding myself attracted to other men.I fear it is my codependent radar at work,especially when it is a very strong attraction.That is the one I probably most need to avoid.
I realize now that I was rescuing even at 17 when I married my husband.
I do not want to get into another sick relationship just to get the love I need.It would not be real love.I do not want to settle for anything less therefore,like you, I will probably end up alone the rest of my life with many friends and activities to keep me busy.That to me is better than the misery of a realtionship based on rescuing or caretaking or desparate neediness.
Barisax....I enjoyed reading your responses.I think you have nailed this issue.I like your realism and honesty.
I found what I was looking for as an analogy... look up the Alanis Morissette song, "Unsent" and look at the lyrics.
I'm "Terrence". Notice she sleeps on his couch. I think there is a place for the Terrences of the world, and I suppose it's easy for us to feel used on occasion. But who am I to question God for making me the way I am? The first time I heard this song, it made me angry. The nicest, most understanding guy in her list gets the least for his troubles. But... is that really true?
I've often heard this in AA and Alanon (but never from a psychologist), "Don't compare someone else's outsides to your insides". Things are rarely as they appear to be.
I still get angry, jealous, envious. But whenever I feel those emotions of coveting, I have to ask myself: would I trade places - lives - with that person I'm envious of? Would I really? Invariably, the answer is no. I think that's the only answer I need.
I think one reason that it was so easy for me to get involved with an A is that I don't really want to put a lot of myself into a relationship. A "normal" man would expect me to be warmer, more open, more loving than I naturally am. With an A, you don't really have anything like a normal relationship anyway, so he never really did notice, I think, how much of myself I kept from him. Neither of us are capable of true intimacy, really.
I'm a natural loner. I have a few friendships and family relationships that are vitally important to me (yes, you know who, I'm talking about you) , but really the only free and unforced love I have for anyone is for my kids. Then there is this big tangled messy "something" that is my relationship with my A, like a wet duffle bag full of slightly off chocolate, that I am forced to drag around with me....
carolinagirl wrote: They are good at giving the appearance of love until they become totally consumed with whatever drug they are using at the time.
Well said! Giving the appearance of love and slipping back into old behaviors becomes an addiction that so many times goes unoticed until the pain becomes greater than the enjoyment. I know that I have become less giving of myself when entering into a new friendship/relationship. I have found that even in recovery there are still those who seem to think that friends with benefits are the only way to go and that committment is not something to be obtained. I give tons of kudos to those who can hold on to who they want to be in a relationship and don't change who they are for someone else but continue to grow in their own path through the help of their program. I still believe that two people can learn to become equally caring for each other but not without a committment to the relationship. Sadly, there seems to be so many self-ism's going around today that for so many making a committment to somebody is to great a risk to take. Hopefully I will continue to be comfortable in my own skin and not take another's ism so personal.
I have always picked the A's. It's not that I am looking for them but sometimes I feel I have a neon sign above my head and it says "Pick Me" LOL!!! I have been absued all my life in every shape and form. When a man that I am attracted to, shows me interest I settle for them because they are showing me the affection at that time that I am looking for and I am giving them my affection. Once I find out that they are an "A" I am buried into deep and I feel I can hrlp them get sober.... Boy am I lfinding things out differently now that I found Alanon.
For me its about familiarity. I grew up in an incredibly dysfunctional abusive family. I also rush in. I no longer rush with relaitonships. I acknowledge red flags. I attend to them. I set limits.
I used to also idealize people. I do that less now. I tend to look at both their good and bad traits. I think I also have extremely low expectations of a relationship and a great fantasy. I want someone to be something but I don't ask for it. I'm also too interested in make overs. I want to change them wheras now I accept them as they are and try to set limits over how their behavior affects me.
I know if I met the A now I would see red flags. When I met him 6 something years ago I just saw someone who was interested in me. I didn't look for any red flags. I was tremendously lonely and needed help and he provided it. I also was far far too quick to commit. I don't comit as quickly anymore to anything be it job, friendship whatever. When I run into problems i make decisions now rather than procrastinate them as I did with the A. I also know my limits. The A exceeded them years and years ago and I kept on with it. Now I have limits and I stopped asking him for things he will never ever give me like emotional support. He never gave it, he faked it but he never ever gave it.
I won't date anyone who drinks or uses drugs. One of the most valuable things I have learned is to see how he talks about his exes. The last man I dated a year ago mentioned how his ex spent too much money, she was obsessed with her body, she only wore designer clothes, etc. It didn't take very long for me to see the truth. He wore designer clothes all the time, played tennis obsessively, etc. He made a remark about his last date being at a sleazy bar....that's where he met her!!! He was projecting himself onto them which told me he has self-loathing issues. I bolted right away. His ex wife bolted with another man. Now I see why.
I will NOT date until I have total self-acceptance. That's what I've been searching my whole life for, not someone to love me for what I can do for them, but to love and accept myself unconditionally. Then I will attract the right person in my life.
This is an excellent topic - thanks for keeping it fresh. Each one of you wrote something which I could relate to and learn from. I love how you are now setting boundaries, trusting your red flags and feelings when you meet people, taking your time, realizing love and friendship are far more important than sex, how listening to how someone projects negative of ex relationship rather than taking responsibility - all of these things hit home with me and are what I am striving for. I too have a very long history of broken relationships, disappointments, resentments, drama....and I am now finally seeing how my behaviors played into all of this. I want no more of that and much much more of all the healthy relationships and behaviors.
I will NOT date until I have total self-acceptance. That's what I've been searching my whole life for, not someone to love me for what I can do for them, but to love and accept myself unconditionally. Then I will attract the right person in my life.
The more my self-acceptance increases, the less interest I have in dating. I dabble with it about once a year, and end up in the same place - why am I doing this? I don't need someone else to make me feel good about myself, and unless I can find someone considerably younger (who likes older men), I'll never have kids of my own. The why and whatfor of it just seem to fade away. There was a time I thought a Corvette would be cool too. I could have one... if I wanted to give up quite a few other things. I guess the same is true of a relationship. The price exceeds my willingness (not ability) to pay.
