Are they all so inwardly involved? - Al-Anon Family Group

Diva · ~*Service Worker*~

Are they all so inwardly involved?

Karilynn · ~*Service Worker*~

((((((Diva))))),

Doesn't matter if he's still there, as long as you want him to be. Perhaps you are not really ready deep down inside to have him leave. How many times did it take me to AH leave? Yes, most A are so inwardly involved. There are certain subjects I don't bring to hubby because he is in the process of dealing with them at his mental health clinic. So I leave it alone. I have to ask myself "How important is it?". But we have a rule, we never hold back when it's really important. Several months ago we had a "DUMP IT" fight. Everything came out. It was awful at the moment and for the next couple of days. But we've been great ever since. Maybe you just need to dump it all out there for him to see. Will he get it? Who knows? But it might be worth a shot, and it certainly might make you feel better. Recovery is about you, not him dear friend.

Love and blessings to you and all the animals.

Live strong,

Karilynn & Pipers Kitty

serendipity · ~*Service Worker*~

i don't think you are complaining. you are communicating. i have had the same experience with my ah. at this point it seems to me that he is all about himself. he doesn't love me for who i am. he doesn't kiss me or talk to me because he loves me and is interested in me. he does it because it's what he wants. if it's a way to control me. he has held me hostage, not loved me. i don't think he knows the difference. but i do...now. we are divorced but he is here with me and the kids alot. too much. he is sober in aa but still very sick. and i do believe that he thinks that being here for the kids and doing things for me will make up for not being here, abandoning the kids and me. in my heart it is over. because of what he did and didn't do. he ofcourse, will think it is because i have found someone new lol! i have 3 young kids, my father died and i am dealing with all of that being the only child, i work and barely make enough money,so why wouldn't i be out there looking for prince charming? lol i thought i found him, i married him, had 3 kids and found out he was not just a frog, but a frog with a horrible disease! not anxious to try that again anytime soon! i have always hated not having him to talk to and eventually i did what you are doing and i just shut up. to the point where i didn't even have the feelings or thoughts anymore. that was my part. so, it is mine to change. i don't think any of this helped but i can relate and i hope you can keep being open and honest if not with him then at least with us.....much love

maresie2 · ~*Service Worker*~

I have this too with the A. In fact if I ever broach a difficult subject he leaves. He cannot hear my anger. He keeps it either superficial or meldorama soap opera.

I feel tremendously abandoned, betrayed and isolated. thank goodness I have program and some friends.

I think the superficiality is as difficult as the acting out. He is like a teenager mentally.

Maresie.

lilms · Senior Member

((((Diva)))))

In answer to your question, are they all so inwardly involved??? In my experience, HELL YES!!

lilms

Tiger2006 · ~*Service Worker*~

Diva darling, it sounds like you are in so much pain and so looking for attention. But you and I are in the same, dire, dark place: we are going to the hardware store for groceies again. Everytime I heard someone tell me this I would think God! I f***ked up again! I knew my Mom/Dad would do this, they've done it in the past, and yep, I did it again!

Today, I say to that little girl inside of me, "No. No, no no." It's gentle time.

I think, and I think we all feel, that when we're in a relationship with someone, at some level and at some time we are allowed, permitted, entitled, to have a time and a place to share dreams, expectations, feelings and failures. And, more importantly, to share these with this person that we have come to be in a relationship with, with out the fear, without the guilt, without the shame, without a sense of doom of what we're sharing will be belittled, ignored, shamed, humiliated, whatever. That we will be honored for who we are on the inside and our feelings will be respected by this person on the outside.

And yet, as I've grown in this program, as time has gone by and more has been revealed, what has consistently been revealed to me about my parents is that they don't know how to love. They were never taught, they were never given, they were never shown, they were never respected to the point that they felt safe giving love or reciving love. And because of this, if I ever feel a need to share myself with my parents, what I'm doing is setting myself up. I am going to create pain. I am going to hurt in ways that I did as a little girl, as an adolescent and as a young adult. This is where for me I can finally apply the slogan "are you a victim or a volunteer?" See, again, I didn't understand this slogan, because what I was hearing was that you were blaming be for the violence, for the incest, for the neglect, for the insanity, and yet you would turn around and say I couldn't control the disease, I didn't cause the disease and I couldnt' cure it--so it was liek "make up your mind! Either I'm the cause of the family insanity or I'm not!"

Now, this doesnt mean I have to cut myself into ribbons when I do make the same mistakes. As I grow, again, I become more and more aware. I've learned hwo my mother "baits" me into arguments, into sharing myself and into returning to the dysfuntional family pattern that would set me up to go to the hardware store for groceries. By gaining awareness and flaming my desire to grow a little more every day, what I'm finding out is that my recovery family is a safe place to share my dreams, fears, feelings, et cetera. Because my family is not able at this time, or perhaps ever, to connect with feeelings or the concept of living with feeelings, I cannot safely recover and allow myself to be my truest self and have a relationship with them. I have to be on my guard, be careful of my words, and watch my responses when I am with my family, because I know that what is going on behind each word and action is a hook--an unspoken motive; an unsaid expectation; an unadmitted disappointment set up to draw me in.

I don't have to feed into that today. I can choose who to share my true self with. I do that with you people.

horselover58 · Veteran Member

In repsonse, yes I beleive they are.

But, on the other hand, I also beleive that men, A's or not, are different from women. Seems men don't like to get down into the intimate realms of their being.

In my f2f group, I have a sponsor, but there are different members that I feel comfortable sharing different aspects of my life with. Like my non-alanon friends, we have different interests. I have friends I call my "horsie" friends, we do horse things together, ride, go to shows. Then I have friends who aren't "into" horses, we do different things togehter, shopping, plays, lunch, that stuff.

I guess my point is sometimes as much as we would like to share our feelings with our spouses, they aren't able for one reason or another to go to that deeper level, that is why we have each other here, Al-Anon is a great place to ge that need met. We need that network of friends, each one has something unique to offer us.

I find that my A hubby is not as open & receptive to sharing that way. We are able to talk about our goals, our plans for retirement, but the deep stuff, no way!

I am glad you came here, this is safe place to open up, to share, "let there be no gossip or criticizm of one another" that was a great comfort to me when I first came here & still is.

Glad to have you as a member of my "family of choice".

Love,

Debbie

diamond · Veteran Member

Hi Diva,

The thing that sticks in my mind the most about alcoholics...

They are masters of arrogance and self-centeredness. I have heard that in order for ego deflation to occur...they need sobriety (first and foremost)... along with recovery. With that...comes honest to goodness humility. And that's only if they truly "get" what recovery looks like...

Take care,

Diamond

Phil · Veteran Member

Gads!! I hate being honest...some days..(smile)

As a recovering A....the answer is yes...

Alcohol is but a symptom of the disease..

And yes....Its 'self..centeredness right to the core"

It took this big kid a long time in sobriety....to get rid of a lot of that "Me..me..me stuff"

I was in a marriage where...If my wife tried to comunicate with me..on any level...and there were any fingers pointed at me? I would turn it all around..so that the fingers were pointed back at her..(and I was sober)

I think the biggy I want to share here is....I never knew how to comunicate properly...on any level...

Had to go councelling after many days of being sober to even learn...how to begin to

And if Im really self searching about it...? I still havent got it right.

Trying to put brain in gear before opening my mouth helps...

Listening to what the other person is saying..and how they feel, and respecting how they feel...and trying to understand what they are saying...is also a big one...and instead of my reacting as an "know it all"....I should have been saying "I dont understand...Can we talk about it"

It was always about me..and how I felt...

My humble share for the day...:)

hudsond · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Diva)))

I love that wording--"inwardly involved" it sounds nicer than self-centered and selfish. I'll have to use that! But I agree with everyone here--yes they are.

Sometimes I truly get depressed when I want or feel I "need" to share with my AH and things don't go as planned--well things never go as I plan. I get so frustrated and angry--b/c I just want him to listen and be there for me--not necessarily "fix" anything just be there. Every now and then (very, very seldom) I get him to listen then we go through a few days of him being really grouchy and me being fearful he will use b/c I'm not sure he can handle what I have told him--it won't have been anything for him to take care of just sharing my fears or hurts and frustrations maybe--but then he kind of freaks out on me b/c he doesn't really know what to "do" with that.

so while the whole process I hate and I would like to think with time might get better--I take one day at a time--sometimes share sometimes hold it in. I try very hard to remember the good positive changes that HAVE happened since he has been sober and tell myself--it all can't happen overnight--maybe sometime this particular "quirk" will get better too!

I am sorry you are frustrated, lonely and down. I hope that just venting a little can help.

Just keep your chin up and take it one day at a time.

Dawn

ditto · Senior Member

I have always found Tiger2006 to have very wise words and insights. And, I think what Tiger touches on is this: people all have their “stuff” and no one is perfect. In Tiger’s case she is referring to her family and there isn’t much that Tiger can do because it isn’t possible to divorce parents/family members and choose new family that is more compatible with our needs. But the basic underlying premise is the same, and that is: you can have a relationship with someone who does not meet all of your needs while avoiding their “stuff”.

In Tiger’s case she can grow up, move away, work on her own health, avoid certain topics, minimize her interactions.

When dealing with friends the choice can be to work on your own health, avoid certain topics, minimize interactions.

In the case of a live-in husband/SO one does not necessarily wish to minimize interactions and certainly their “stuff” does impact our lives because they live with us. So, if they are financially irresponsible we are effected. If they are unhealthy our lives are impacted. No matter what we do or how much we detach, we cannot insulate ourselves completely.

I am wondering if that is why there is a growing population of people who are in committed relationships who live apart. In this lifestyle one can continue to love and interact with the addict during his healthier times and can send him home when his “stuff” reaches our boundaries. I wonder if it also allows us to grow healthier more quickly without having to deal with their illness while we work on our strength. And I wonder if it gives us more confidence in learning to live apart and perhaps in eventually making a break so that we can give ourselves a healthy future.

Just some thoughts thrown out there. Here are some articles about Living Apart Together (LAT relationships)

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/AmericanFamily/story?id=2023499&page=1

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/29/HOG7HDEB7B1.DTL

-- Edited by ditto at 22:25, 2006-11-06

carolinagirl · ~*Service Worker*~

In a word...YES!

Gailey · ~*Service Worker*~

very thought provoking reply Ditto

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

Diva , there is a line in our literature that u may not have found yet . It says Going to an alcoholic for emotional support is like going to a hardware store for a loaf of bread. It is just not there. especially a practing alcoholic .

I had a hard time accepting that theory but over the yrs it has proven to be true for me and my relationship . Most of my stuff is women stuff and he would never get it anyway , so i talk to Al-Anons they get me , understand even my silly little problems and never tell me it's wrong to feel that way .

Today i accept that he just cannot be there for me , but I have tons of support and people who will listen to me . and the A in my life is 18 yrs sober . he will listen today but still always wants to fix the problem , so half way thru my converstaion I loose him cause he is already working on the solution . hehe . He supports me in crisis , allows me to be who I need to be, mistakes and all . and today that is enough .

nmike · ~*Service Worker*~

((((Diva)))),

Well, you describe my AHsober to a tee. He has perfected his wall. He is on automatic with the non-response. And he is very selfish, self centered, and god like. I tell him that I don't have any degree of error because of his what he will allow is only the size of a postage stamp. Can you pull yourself out for awhile and be an observer?

In support,

Nancy

athena12 · Veteran Member

I liked Abbyal's line about going to an alcoholic for emotional support is like going to a hardware store for a loaf of bread. I know it was very difficult, no, really impossible, to draw my father who was the alcoholic out on an emotional level. He was very closed off. My response to this was to discuss with him things like articles in the newspaper and politics which he liked. I would keep the conversation "safe" so that we had some form of communication. I just don't think dealing with emotional issues was in him and if it was I think the alcoholism helped keep it locked in.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.