The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I have never been an emotional person, that was reserved strictly for my mother. My ASober Dad came from a family of all boys, and my grandmother (who I loved so much) was tougher than anyone I have ever known. All 5'2" and 100 pounds of her.
Nobody that I grew up with played much on emotion.
I don't think my AW has ever seen me cry. She has mentioned it a few times.
(((((Kismetstrand))))) your response to "Today is a new day" had me crying so hard I could hardly finish reading it.
"That's a wish that has been handed down from other generations. My parents used to say it to everyone." He paused for a moment and looking up as if trying to remember it in detail, he smiled even more."When we said 'I wish you enough,' we were wanting the other person to have a life filled with just enough good things to sustain them," he continued and then turning toward me he shared the following as if he were reciting it from memory.
"I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright. I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more. I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive. I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much bigger. I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting. I wish you enough loss to appreciate all that you possess. I wish enough "Hello's" to get you through the final "Goodbye."
Wow, I just have no words for what that truly means.
My dear AW.... has moved out and in 24 hours had proclaimed that yes she has a drinking problem and had talked to my Dad of all people about treatment and programs. She has contacted the AA group here in town... or at least has the number.
And she wants to come home... crying and screaming that she can't do it alone, that she can't stand being alone without me and the kids. The idea of being alone in that apartment is giving her a panic attack.
My emotions are a wreck... and they are screaming at me to say ... "sure honey, now that you know, I trust you to take care of it". But... I know in my heart, that won't work for me. She still says things that point to, she started drinking because she was not satisfied with me, and that I am the key to her stopping. How can she go through sobriety if it's all up to me and not her?
My need for sobriety in the house is directly because, I hear from her day in and day out for years that I am not who she wants, and she has to drink to bare it. I don't want that responsability and pain anymore. I can't take it.
I don't want her to be alone, I didn't move her out. The crazy thing is there is nothing stopping her from coming home except that I haven't encouraged her. I just simply didn't stop her from moving out. Told her it was her decission.
Am I just being an selfish ass about this? (guess that's my non-subtile way of asking for ESH)
Bless you all for your support over the past few days, I simply couldn't have made it without you!
Take care of you!
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
I think you are being very selfless and brave. I have so much admiration for what you are doing. It is obvious how much you want your wife to get well. Keep the faith. BBsteps.
I admire your strength and courage. It's very easy to give in, and much harder to do what you know in your heart is best for everyone. Allow yourself the freedom to cry, and you will be envelloped in a new healing energy. Just to release can be a great comfort to yourself.
As you know there are many people here who care for you and who will support you whatever way you chose to go.
Be kind to yourself. Sending my prayers to you and your family. AM
What I am about to type is my E, S, & H - please, please take what you like & leave the rest - it may be a little jaded - ok - very jaded, but it the way I feel about recovery and the family around those who enter recovery . . .
I have heard so many times, and seen so many times the hopes & dreams of the new found sobriety, in the A's & their family - I know that you have a better understanding, that you know just because she wants to stop, or talks to a few people that won't solve all the problems, You have a better understanding of the disease than that - so many don't - It hurts my heart to see them with their high hopes - maybe because it reminds of me of how I use to feel. Everytime my AH said he would start going to meetings, etc.; I used to think maybe this time, he will finally quit drinking & using, maybe this time will be different. But it never was. I finally gave up all hope.
When I had my AH committed 3 1/2 yrs ago, I did not do it for him to get treatment, I did it just to get him out of my house. He decided to go to rehab instead of living on the streets. Several members of the family were excited about his choice - I on the other hand, had no faith in him, AA or any chance of him recovering. We spent the next 15 months apart - the first 6 months of that barely talking, which in the end was good for him - he was able to take the focus off our marriage and put it on his recovery.
The last 9 months, we started dating, getting to know each other again, learning who we were in recovery, both of us devoting ourselves to our programs (AA & Al-Anon) Then we were able to save our marriage.
For us, recovery had to come before we could even think about saving our marriage. Some couples are able to do those first few months of sobriety together, we were not one of those couples. It was too painful for us - we really needed that time apart to heal and to learn how to get healthy apart before we could be healthy together.
Rtexas - maybe you and your wife are one of those couples that can get healthy and she can achieve sobriety while you & she are together, maybe you're not - only you & she can decide that - but if you do have to spend some time apart early in recovery - don't give up - there is still hope - The odds that were against my AH & I are tremendous, but we are still here, still together, still working out our issues and taking recovery & our marriage One day at a time.
Remember, to still take care of YOU!! You are important and deserve to be treated well,
I'll continue to keep you & your family in my thoughts & prayers,
Rita
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
Be extra kind to yourself today. You are a great person!!! I believe your wife knows that.
Believe that you and your wife are right where you are supposed to be today. I know it is hard, I've been there. Believe that your HP is truly aware and responsive at this very moment....working the paths out for both of you.
After my divorce and many other painful situations in my life, I cried all the time .... then I put up this wall to stop the tears. Unfortunately that wall also kept me from releasing the healing power of those same tears. I am working on that now.
rtexas, your courage shines like a beacon to all of our "family" members who are facing what you are going through. You are always in my prayers. My hopes for you are happiness and peace in a future that brings you joy.
With great caring, Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I heard on this site that TEARS ARE LIQUID PRAYERS. I cry often and I have always thought it was better to be messy on the outside than messy on the inside. In 24 hours your AW has made all this progress. How wonderful. Just imagine how much she will accomplish in 3 to 6 months!
I was and still am the reason for every problem my ex AH has. It was my fault he drank. Whose fault is it now? It was my fault we got divorced (he filed I wanted to stay in counseling). It is my fault he doesn't see our daughter enough but he took the job with the weird hours etc. etc. etc.
Stay strong and stand your ground. If it is all your fault then she has removed her problem then hasn't she? The only key to her sobriety is being alone and having a panic attack and dealing with the consequences of her own actions.
Now...tears and euphoria. I read one time that divorce/separation is like being on a roller coaster in the fog. Just about the time you get a clear view of where you are and where you are going you go over the edge and down into the fog again. Be prepared for the ride. I know that you have a great support system here and that you are a wonderful person and have been an excellent husband and father.
Time...it takes time to heal. Give yourself time to heal.
It is with a great deal of fear that I entered these rooms. I think I blamed, not only Alcohol and Drug addiction, but MEN in general for my problems. It is through reading your posts that I have begun to understand that there is nothing inherently selfish about men--That men can be hurt as much by addictive behaviors as women can. Thank you for being strong. Thank you for teaching me about love of a spouse who is addicted. Stay strong. You are not crazy. You did not cause it, can not change it, and can not control it. As you said, she made the choice to leave. She is not back because she is not better. Take care of you and the kids. Rest. If this relationship is to be you will need your strength for the recovering wife. Allow yourself to enjoy the time away. Get a little sanity, beef up your forces and let her work on her own problems. You will both be better for it. I don't believe that God has forgotten you. Everyone needs a time out every now and then. If you decide that later it is time to put things back together then worry about it then. For me, the hardest thing I do with my husband is let him suffer the consequences of his behavior. Yet, I see him getting better at making decisions as I keep my mouth shut more.
Your strenght is amazing my friend. You are doing what you know is the right thing for you, your wife and your children.
You are not controlling her, she is making her own choices. You are making yours. Sure she is terrified. So are you. Fear of the what is going to happen. The loss of the familiar. It takes courage to change the small stuff. It takes a mountain of courage to change the big stuff.
Have faith that you are both right where you need to be. Nothing changes if everything stays the same. Simple right? Hell no its not.
Do not hesitate to reach out for help. We are here for you.
Tears are liquid prayers my friend. Let them flow for as long as you need. Get the excedrin ready afterward or better yet take two while you are crying.
Our hearts go out to you. You are not alone my friend. Many, many have traveled your path.
I know we are not supposed to give out advice BUT (rofl) I don't believe you are doing the wrong thing. You are not punishing your wife whom you've told us many times you love very much. You have set boundaries for the health and welfare of you and your children. Your children are God's greatest gift to this world and they deserve a happy, healthy home.
Just my own ESH, I left my home (not due to an A - more ACOA issues) and I have been on a merry-go-round since. Should we reunite? Should we divorce? Yet neither has happened. One thing someone told me when I was crying unconsolably was consider this a business deal (YEAH RIGHT)! In other words, if you take the emotion of this decision, are you making the best business decision???? Would you ever stay with someone who continually gives you crap anywhere else in this world?????
Keep on truckin' my friend. You are gonna make it
love Maria
P.S. At night if you are feeling lonely, come visit us in MIP chat. We will be there for you, listen to your shares and I bet a few of us can even get you laughing too
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If I am not for me, who will be? If I am only for myself, then who am I? If not now, when?
((RT)) You are an amazing and courageous person. I admire your ability to stay strong in your decision even during the tears (yours and hers). I do believe those tears are healing tears. An outpour of emotion that is really healthy. I was in a F/F a couple of months ago and a man in the group was talking about how much he's been crying since his wife and he split. He was saying that he caught himself crying about his cat that he had put down 10 years ago. He was crying and laughing at the same time because he couldn't get over how much emotion he was able to give out. So if you must wail, I think your entitled to it. It has to go somewhere, why not give it to HP and us. We are all here for you, listening, praying,and somedays even crying.
Peace,
Twinmom~
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"The people who don't mind matter and the people who mind, don't matter". (Dr. Seuss)
How is wanting a better life for you and your children being a selfish ass? No dear one, you are doing what you need to do in order for you and your children to live a better life. Let the tears flow. Grieve for once was. "Crying only a little bit is no use. You must cry until your pillow is soaked. Then you can get up and laugh." My AH taught me that. Give yourself the time to grieve. Give yourself the time to heal. Remember the good times. Remember the love. Remember that you are not alone and we have your back. You'll find your peace and serenity, I promise. I have great faith in you. Just because we let our As go, doesn't mean that we don't love them anymore. We loved ourselves enough to do what we had to. Nothing wrong with that. It's called recovery. We'll keep you in our prayers.
Love and blessings to you and your boys. I hope she does find her recovery.
Live strong,
Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
for some insight and comforting words (I've decided to be a **bit** less abrasive, given the magnitude of your heart break), I found the following quips from The AA Grapevine Website:
There's a price or a prize for every decision we make
The true test of AA membership: 1. If drinking interferes with home, work, and personal life, it is likely that you have a "heavy" drinking problem, meaning you need to cut back. 2. If work, home, and personal life are interfering with drinking, you are an alcholic.
Ultimately, you will become aware of your alcholism 2 years after everyone else already knew it
Are you laughing yet? *passes kleenex just in case* Honey, she's reaching her bottom. You've quit being her scape goat, her johnny come quickly, her boy toy, her go to man. You've quit taking her blaming/shaming/manipulating, which, as I've said GOD KNOWS how many times is the holy times, is the holy trinity of alcholic thinking. When you stopped taking her conning/conniving/sarcasm, you also started forcing her to own her dysfunction.
She's scared. She's realizing, with complete horror, that no one was responsible for the decisions she made but the woman in the mirror. She's facing the reality that the door swung both ways--she could always have left, but that didn't always mean you were gonna be there when she came back. Additionally, she's facing the reality that what you've been maintaining all along--the kids; the house; the job; the bills--are transient. She can lose a relationship to her kids; her house; her job. She can get fired from all of these.
Remember, relationships are two way streets. And when an alcholic is faced with the reality that the only relationship they've had with themselves is with a substance, it's either a turning point toward surrender or a jumping off point toward insanity.
(((My friend; my dear, dear, friend))) PLease don't give up on yourself. Keep us posted. I know you're hurting.
(((rtexas)))))selfish.....not a speck. You have been more than giving throughout this whole ordeal. I think you are a very good person, and as someone else said, I think your wife knows you are too. She says what she says because she doesn't like herself very much, I think. She knows.
In any breakup I have had with any man in my past, I very much doubt any of them have shown the concern for me that you have for your wife. She is very lucky you are as understanding and giving as you are. Isn't it weird how A's can put up imaginary walls around themselves. Like you said, you didn't force her to leave, and you aren't forcing her to stay gone. All you are asking for is sobriety and respect in your own home for you and the children. That is not too much to ask.
I admire the strength and courage you have shown. I am such a wimp when it comes to setting boundaries. But I'm getting better, slowly. You are an inspiration to all of us here.
Go ahead and cry. Tears are liquid prayers, and are very healing. I cried 50 gallon drums when my AH and I were separated. I wondered how a body could even hold that much liquid. When I thought I could cry no more, the tears still came. I cried unitl I busted a blood vessel in my eye. But then I started to heal. It doesn't happen overnight. It takes time. It takes lots of prayer, lots of talking here or in chat. We will hold you up when you can no longer hold yourself. I know. That's what this board and chatroom did for me. They loved me when I could not love myself.
Hang in there, rtexas. You are in my prayers even as I type.
A selfish ass? I hope you aren't doubting your decisions/boundaries. Your A must have time to find herself and try to recognize what her drinking has done to her family. This part is probably like a fish out of water, flailing around.
Hold on to your boundaries with both hands my friend. She will probably make many attempts to manipulate you in to guilt. They may get worse and worse as she slips down the slippery slope to the bottom.
I believe in you ((rtexas))
As was suggested, come on in to the chatroom if the nights get too long. We'd love to have you.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
I may be redundant in saying this, but they've got to feel the pain. "When the pain of remaining the same becomes greater than the pain of change, change becomes easier." I've often applied this to myself. Where I heard it was from an A friend. Over and over I've been told they have to face themselves (and all that is painful) before they'll take steps to sobriety. Why change if it's comfortable or easy?
The part that really is awful is knowing someone you love is hurting. Who wouldn't want to protect someone, prevent them from hurting......but if we do this we prevent the pain that can cause them to desire change. What you are doing isn't making it painful for her, what you are doing is allowing her the dignity to face her own consequences.
I found it really interesting that you realized that she is wanting you to ask her to come home, when you aren't really preventing her from coming home. It's my experience that when my A does this type of thing (not exactly the same situation) it's being manipulative. For example; my A wanted to move out, he got me to say "than just leave." Now he can say you told me to leave. Do you see where I'm coming from?? I wasn't telling him to leave, yet he wasn't going to leave until I told him to and he worked on me until I gave in and just said it. It's insane.
Don't be hurt if she does find sobriety thru your father, it is VERY rare that a spouse is the person that brings them to the doors of AA. What I pray for is that my A will meet someone who he can "hear" -- cause he's never heard me, lol. So whoever your wife "hears" the message from, just be grateful that she is able to hear it.
I think it is very very very common for addicts to demand rescue. I know I am absolutely rescued out with the A. The rescuing has robbed me of my health, my financial wherewithall and more. And all he demand is rescue.
I have made it categorically clear to him that the rescues are over. I encounter tremendous rage, sulking and withdrawal.
I think the demand to be rescued is a very very hard demand to resist the withdrawal the condemnation the rage is hard to encounter and stand up against. I do know I reached a real bottom. I spent thousands helping the A. He trashed all that.
I spent hours and hours and hours crying and being devastated by his behavior. I would get totally distraught and feel devastated and take it enormously personally. I have had to learn to take the larger picture on it. He is an addict, he wants to remain an addict, he will do anything to maintain that. He cares about nothing else, it consumes him and takes all his energy.
I know his sobriety, his acting out no longer has to take all my energy. I will not allow it to destroy me too. I may have a heart broken but I am not destroyed.
I can only imagine what it is to have children with someone like that. I know what it is to have pets with someone who is an addict. On the one hand he proclaims his love and devotion on the other he does nothing practical, nothing remotely practical to help with caring for them.
Some love huh?
No one here is going to condem you for not going in for one more rescue. Rescue in some ways prolongs the course of the addiction. It is hard to resist, who can resist the notion of helping, calming assisting being there for someone. At the same time when it is destroying me, destroying my financial well being, destroying my health it is no longer rescuing its damaging to me. And I am a person too.
This is the hardest part. I knew she would realize how alone she was very quickly! A's tend to have a deathly fear of being alone but it's the best thing for them. The more time that goes by, the easier this will get for you. The rules have changed on her and she is going to try every trick in the bag to get back to her rulebook of her drinking and you dealing. Stay strong! Try to take a step back and imagine her not as your wife whom you love but a stranger and put the behavior in that perspective I know it is pitiful but she is perfectly capable of figuring her own stuff out.
Things are out of your control right now, remember. She is facing her demons, that is all that I have been hearing lately from fellow AA members, they had to sit there alone and realize that it was them. Stay strong and stick to your boundaries. You are doing the LOVING thing by refusing to rescue her. It is extremely scary, I know how afraid you are, but hang in there. This could be a true bottom, that she knows she is alone. It is fear, but it could mean she gets to the desperation that is needed to finally get the help she needs.
I have been thinking of you all weekend.... stay good and true to yourself and know that you have done all that you can do, yes, this is heartbreaking but we are talking about her life. This could save her life, you know?
Someone told me recently that tears are STRENGTH, and the way I've been crying recently proved that true. I do feel stronger, and you will too!!!
