The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I have read in Alanon lit. that the spouses, parents, sibs, and children get so caught up in what the A is doing, their lives become unmanageable because the A and their behavior becomes their addiction and obsession. I obsess when my A has done something I don't like or if I have an issue I know I need to discuss with him I get so focused on what I'm going to say, how will I approach it etc. that I can hardly concentrate on my work or any other things for myself.
Yesterday I brooded over how do I approach my A on his anger problems. We have made progress in our communication but this is still a piece that hinders our freedom of expression and freedom to love unconditionally. Its hard to be compassionate for someone after they've ripped your head off with their words. I wrote a letter out yesterday with everything I wanted to say. I edited, changed my tone here and there. I approached him on the phone and read parts of the letter to guide me in my conversation. In writing this letter yesterday I realized why i get so anxious and nervous when I have to approach a difficult subject. He's not open to criticism or to hear about what he's done wrong. He immediately gets defensive and throws something I've done back onto me. I expected it yesterday. I also realized that when he rages at me, grits his teeth, throws something, I am intimidated and he knows it. He reminds me of my father and I allow him to reduce me back to a small child on the inside. I get flustered and lose my train of thought that I sound like a babbling fool.
I asked him yesterday is this the legacy you want to leave behind for your children? You gripe about how your uncle did this to you but you are doing it to us. I let him know that I would no longer take this abuse or would allow him to rage at the kids when they get older. I asked him to get into counseling, he used an excuse of money etc. Then I reminded him that once his benefits kick in he has a counseling benefit that he can take advantage of six free sessions with a counselor a year. Our counseling agency has a male therapist that works with other males on DV and anger. He agreed to go, I let him know that this will not go away for me. If he begins to devalue my feelings, yell, scream, and cuss I don't care what time of day or night, I will collect myself and the kids if I have to and go out for a drive or spend the night at my brothers or a motel. I let him know that if he does not value my confrontational side of standing up for myself then he's with the wrong person. I believe I made my boundaries clear and will need to keep the courage to enforce those boundaries when he crosses them. I asked myself what can I live with? I can't live with a person who uses power and control over us to get what he wants, I can't live with a person who is unable to have a normal calm conversation. i let him know if he values this relationship and this family he'll find a way to get help. I felt so much better about me after saying what I had to say.
He did as I expected,He hung up on me, he threw my stuff back in my face. I wouldn't allow him to wiggle his way out of this. I can see its safer for him to keep his issues hidden this way he doesn't have to face them. The stronger I am the more he has to be faced with this woman standing up for herself and calling him out. (i'm sure he doesn't like to look at his faults). I didn't feel guilty for doing it either. That was big for me. Blessings
Twinmom~
__________________
"The people who don't mind matter and the people who mind, don't matter". (Dr. Seuss)
What a great post to wake up to! Your idea of writing down your thoughts and using it to keep the conversation on track is a wonderful one. Setting up boundaries is one of the hardest things for me, getting to the basic core of a certain situation and deciding a limit or acceptable behavior after years of feeling out of touch with reality. It gives me hope to read of someone else's steps to do so. Thank you for sharing.
Isn't it interesting how that works. Much of my anxiety has centered around what I expect her reaction to be to X. I finally did kinda what you did. I wrote out a long email and tried very hard (spent all day on it) to say what I needed out of this relationship and how I felt. I was careful to take anything that she might do that upsets me or the kids and turn it around into what I need or want.
It amazes me that it was so hard to do...
I guess this was my first real declaration of boundries. Either she really spent the time to think about it, or showed it to her cohorts up at work, but somehow she has seemed to accept it.
I am so glad you were able to express your needs to him, that bothers me the most, that she can't seem to realize I even exist inside of "us". He may not like it, but if it's fuzzy, he doesn't even have to acknowledge it.
I am so impressed with your progress, and so glad you choose to share it with us. It really helps me, so thank you for that!
Take care of you!
__________________
"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
I pray a lot for the right words to come when I have a big conversation, not for my way, but for the right words to come from my mouth in the right tone. That's kinda like doing a rough draft on paper, having my God make the corrections.
Josey
__________________
Julianne - It's best to move on. You cannot look back in anger in life. It's too short
Hello Mom , good for you , boundaries are difficult to understand at times sometimes they come out l ike concrete walls , unmovable. The first boundary I set was no more hollering at me , talk to me normally like u do anyone else or I am leaving the room . they are an action thing when in a confontration i speak up and remind himto lower his voice if he dosent I leave the room. Luckily i have never worried about physical abuse so it was easy for me to do that.
I love the lines "YOU could be right"
Or I am sorry u feel that way the secret to both for me are to leave the room imeadiatley. I never stick around for the rebutle. both of those coments are argument enders for me and they work like a charm.
Alcoholics drink it's wht they do but I don't have to allow myself to be abused . verbally or any other way . Lowering my expectations was also a good thing for me in fact I was told to expect nothing and I would never be dissapointed. sounded a little lopsidded to me but it works , I don't set my self up for dissapointment anymore . So when the A or anyone for that matter comes thru for me it is a bonus.
There is a page in our OdAT that changed my life told me step by step what my part inthis relationship was I used it like a map to guide me from obsession to serenity . page on July 14th do what it says and your life will get better. I read that every day for ayr til i was doing exactly what it said I am a slow learner. hehe good luck keep it simple Louise
As I read your post it reminded me of a time when I used to think that it all boiled down to a difference in what each one 'values'. And the 'meanings' that go with them. At some point there was a decision to be valuable to each other or a reason to believe that there was an importance in being together. I used to think that because the other person shared in being together, whether it be father, mother, sibling, spouse, etc., that 'values and meanings' were important to the relationship, the human one. It seems that once the alcohol enters the picture, "everything" changes. In looking back I found that once the alcohol entered in, everything else went out. You know the saying about you can't mix oil and water ? No matter how hard you shake it, it won't mix !!! You can kill yourself trying. So when the alcohol becomes the #1 relationship to whoever, nothing else seems to matter to them anymore as far as relationship 'values and meanings,the human ones'. Sometimes I thought that the shock and stuggle and non acceptance of that happening, kept me in the fight and struggle to save what was "supposed" to be. I even thought hope and faith being strong enough would make it happen. I lost. Every one of the ones in my life that resorted to alcohol, which is almost all of them, do what ever it takes to make relationship w/alcohol #1. Didn't matter to any of them anymore what I thought, felt, wanted, needed, and so on. I didn't blend with #1 alcohol and the after affects. Never did, and never will as long as its in the picture. I have no way of understanding the ones that gave it up cause I don't know any who did. Over 50 yrs of knowing them is along time. My brothers and all their friends are A's. Buried one and the rest would rather deal with all the illnesses from alc. than stop. My mother who I hadn't seen in over 10 yrs til just the last year is still A and can't even mention the word alcohol without rage and same with my daughter. They'd rather stay with that lifestyle than have me around to disturb it for them. Nothing changed even with the 10 years separation. Alcohol is her medicine in her mind even in congestive heart failure. Even her not being able to stand being around others alcohlism doesn't stop them. And there are others.
If I love them or want to be with them, doesn't matter to them. To them I'm a threat to what they want most in life, relationship w/ALCOHOL #1! I wish I had know that years and years ago instead of wasting my life on trying to have one with them. I can't replace those years. When I read the words "meanings" and "values" in your post this is what flooded to my mind. I too spent the first 42 yrs of life trying to find 'value' and 'meaning' with them. They chose relationship w/alc. 1st and, beatup,threatened, rejected, walled-out, etc. anything that went against their life with the alc.relationship.
Don't know if there is anything in it for you. Take what you want and Leave the rest. Live and Let Live. We may not all get the same results, yet we are all affected.
RAINBOWS,BLESSINGS,COURAGE,STRENGTHTake care of yourself and your life
I kinda think someone might want something positive out of this and I forgot to put it. The 10 years I was away from them I found myself, at least alot more than I ever had before. I like who I found. I got strong enough to make a whole lotta new boundaries. That makes it less devastating to be around the vicinity they live in. I won't give it up for them , nor them for me. So the boundary means no involvement in life together. They tried real hard to tear me into their lifestyle and it didn't work. At least I won't spend the rest of my life trying to convince them. I'll get back on track from the hurricane Katrina, hopfully, without their help or caring, and go back to build life again with my artwork and returning to school and on down my Road of Recovery !!! Of course now the system seems just as dysfuntional as family, only on a larger scale. What an awakening !!!!
-- Edited by d53sjurne at 13:43, 2006-05-16
-- Edited by d53sjurne at 13:46, 2006-05-16
-- Edited by d53sjurne at 13:49, 2006-05-16
-- Edited by d53sjurne at 14:11, 2006-05-16
-- Edited by d53sjurne at 03:31, 2006-05-17
__________________
I tell myself when times are rough, "this to shall pass!!!" Ask HP for guidance, if the door is open, and I know how to look, I will become aware! I also visit http://www.inspiringthots.net/ . Blessings , Your sister in Recovery
Twinmom--That was so good!! I know you are proud of you. It took a lot of courage to stand up and tell him how you felt and what your boundaries were going to be. That is so encouraging to those of us who are learning to set boundaries! I just set one myself this past weekend. Scary time, but I was so proud of myself. It's amazing how good we can feel about ourselves afterwards.
Lowering my expectations was also a good thing for me in fact I was told to expect nothing and I would never be dissapointed. sounded a little lopsidded to me but it works , I don't set my self up for dissapointment anymore . So when the A or anyone for that matter comes thru for me it is a bonus.
Wow! What a concept! I have found this so moving and life altering. Reading this made me realize that I am still setting standards I expect my AH to meet and find myself surprised on almost a daily basis when he doesn't. It never dawned on me before that by lowering my expectations, I could prevent feeling let down. After all, they are my expectations, not his. Thanks!
I read in the alanon book the quotation that if I am disappointed by someone that it was "my" expectations that were not met (not theirs). Okay I may have just pulled a George Bush and worded that wrong but you know what I mean.
Twin Mom, this has nothing to do with anything but I have not seen my Mom for 10 years either and she doesn't drink, smoke or anything.....she's just a fruitcake. If I ever find a "FC-Anon Group" I'll be there.
I wrote a letter out yesterday with everything I wanted to say. I edited, changed my tone here and there. I approached him on the phone and read parts of the letter to guide me in my conversation. In writing this letter yesterday I realized why i get so anxious and nervous when I have to approach a difficult subject. He's not open to criticism or to hear about what he's done wrong. He immediately gets defensive and throws something I've done back onto me. I expected it yesterday. I also realized that when he rages at me, grits his teeth, throws something, I am intimidated and he knows it. He reminds me of my father and I allow him to reduce me back to a small child on the inside. I get flustered and lose my train of thought that I sound like a babbling fool. 
Blessings
RAINBOWS,BLESSINGS,COURAGE,STRENGTH
Twinmom--That was so good!! I know you are proud of you. It took a lot of courage to stand up and tell him how you felt and what your boundaries were going to be. That is so encouraging to those of us who are learning to set boundaries! I just set one myself this past weekend. Scary time, but I was so proud of myself. It's amazing how good we can feel about ourselves afterwards.