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AH apologized to me today for some things he said/did last night. He apologized through a text, which I did read but didn't respond to yet. He isn't home right now and won't be for awhile. I haven't responded yet because it has sent me into deep thought about the whole thing and I wanted to come here and hopefully receive some helpful ESH on the subject.
The last time he apologized to me for something he got upset later on because I still was upset about what he had said/done. He told me "I said I was sorry and when I apologize I expect you to accept it,stop talking about whatever I had said or done to upset you and never talk about it again." He seems to think that if I accept his apology that means everything is good, I am not upset and all is forgotten. He also seems to think a simple 'sorry' is enough no matter what he has said or done,that just the act of saying it should be good enough.
I feel that I can accept his apology but I still have a right to my feelings,if I am hurt or upset,then I am hurt or upset,the apology doesn't erase anything and I need some time to get over it or to be able to let go of it. I can accept that he is sorry but sometimes I can't accept what he has said or done.
I might be over thinking this right now and it all may be pretty straight forward and simple and not complicated. IDK. But am I sending the message that everything is ok when I accept his apologies? Should I only accept an apology when I am ready to let go of it? Has saying sorry become more of an excuse he's using and it means nothing? Am I just routinely accepting apologizes out of habit but I am not truly accepting them? Do I even understand what an apology means? These are the things I am asking myself right now.
Apologies mean very little without changed behavior. I don't know if that's something you'd want to say to him as it could just trip off drama and an argument but it's true. You could say I appreciate the apology and maybe that is true for you. I think we can say I accept an apology and appreciate it but that does not equate with forgiveness whether or not the A wants it to or not. If they try and force apology acceptance into "everything is forgotten" - well that is just them doing the whole gaslighting routine and trying to get you to doubt your truth about forgiveness and what apologies mean.
Hi SunnyFrogs. Sorry to hear you're in this quandry. I remembered one of the most painful situations with my AH. For 3 years in a row, he ignored my birthday. No card. No gift. No acknowledgement even though friends, family , coworkers made a point to celebrate me. Each time he apologized. Each time I said it's okay. It became so painful, I yammered on and on about it to my therapist and she just shrugged it off which made me feel even more invalidated. Two years ago, I told my AH it was not cool and he retorted it was "no big deal". I got honest and told him it was not about being the centre of attention. My birthday was one of the few days in the year my stepmother would not beat me for any infractions so I continued to make it a big deal in my adult years. AH cried and promised he would never ignore it again. He has made good on the promise. I paid closer attention and noticed his family ignores his birthday. Being a New Year's Eve baby, it was lumped in with Christmas...I was then able to truly understand and forgive. It was a bridge to better understanding of one another. What's my point.? Be true to yourself. I now acknowledge receipt of apology, honour my feelings and keep an open mind before accepting/forgiving. Eventually I let it go but I process it at the speed my HP deems fit. Have a day filled with blessings.
I know that pain of not having birthdays acknowledged,sorry you do too. I'm glad your AH has kept his promise.
My AH doesn't promise anything,doesn't even acknowledge any wrongdoing at all. Just says sorry and that's it. He then refuses to talk about whatever it was that he needed to apologize for. It's just sorry then don't talk about it or ever bring it up again.
Do I believe he's ever truly sorry? No,I actually don't. I think it's just something he says the same as saying the weather is nice today.
Maybe I really have been sending the message that accepting an apology means it's as if it never happened at all. Maybe I need to stop doing that.
I do know that's how his family does things,pretend nothing has ever happened. I have seen them have huge screaming matches and then pretend it didn't happen at all,without any apologies or straightening things out or anything. As a matter of fact that happened with one of his siblings last week. When they saw each other the next day nobody mentioned it,it was as if it never happened at all. It's Strange to me.
But now that I just typed that out,I can really see where i have been basically doing the same thing. And 'sorry' is just a code word for 'now we will pretend this never happened'. But I guess that IS what he told me last time when he told me "I said I was sorry and when I apologize I expect you to accept it,stop talking about whatever I had said or done to upset you and never talk about it again".
Boom. This is what he learned from his family growing up. Light bulb moment...
I highly doubt I could have a conversation about this with him without it turning into a huge argument. I'm not even gonna try to. But I did just respond to his text and said I appreciate the apology. I didn't say I accept it though.
I'm just gonna feel my feelings and if he wonders why I didn't accept it he can approach me and talk about it. Which I doubt will happen
I've just been thinking out loud here haven't I? Lol,it helps and works. This thread really isn't about AH,it's about me,even though it may not seem like it. It's not about changing him,it's about trying to change myself.
Hi again. SunnyFrogs, I smiled reading your post...the boom light bulb moment. I have learned so much about myself from the shared experiences of members. I love that we are on a shared journey of recovery. The right answers for self come to light. By sharing your experience, you inspire me to change and keep hope alive. Thanks also for the wisdom of above shares.
(((SF))) - my simple, go-to, program/sponsor approved response is, "Thank you for apologizing." Nothing more, nothing less. This does not mean I am over it, another is free to repeat and/or all is well with the world. I am simply grateful for the words stated, nothing more or less.
I try to not read more into anything from another person. Time will tell if the actions will meet up with the words. I do not ever assume another is trying to con me, manipulate me, gaslight me, or other because each moment I spend thinking about another person's possible motives is unhealthy energy I no longer want to absorb.
I am a believer in forgiveness as I don't believe it has anything to do with another. Al-Anon has given me the space and grace to better tell others that I am hurt, disappointed, still processing, still healing, etc. I can state where I am without JADE - Justifying, Arguing, Defending or Explaining or throwing blame/shame at another.
If my A(s) apologize, and I use my go-to above AND then later they ask if I am still mad, my second neutral go-to is, "I am still processing how I feel." Again, nothing more, nothing less. I truly try to be honest with myself and with others as not doing so usually bites me later.
In my A(s), there's a variety of passion - good and bad. They are right-fighters too (wonder how/why...?), so it's easy for things to escalate around here simply because we are a family of strong minded, strong willed persons. When I opted to just not engage, step away from drama/chaos, stay in my lane and choose happiness over being right, things really, really calmed down. I'm not suggesting that I was the biggest issue, instead, when I stopped picking up the rope, my A(s) quickly discovered there was no fight to be had.
You got this and you get to decide if/when you respond, how you respond, and what happens next. I truly am happy when mine apologize even without changed behavior, simply because I view it as another step towards a better relationship at some point. It does sound/feel hollow often, but that's how I am receiving it - I truly don't know their heart/intention. And, yes - I can relate to the FOO you describe for your husband. We never talked things out or reasoned things out in my FOO; my husband's family is the same as well.
Since I want these guys in my life, I must work hard on unconditional acceptance and love. For me, this is where my serenity comes from - allowing others to be who they are, as they are. I will say that I talk out more and more life things with my sponsor than my AH, as it's a safer space/place. She helps me best prepare for conversations with my A so I am raising issues/concerns in a healthy way. I can say that many, many times, I do conclude it's not worth it, esp. when I consider, 'how important is this in the grand scheme of life?'
Our program helps me work these things out, and figure out a better way to respond vs. react. My best suggestion is keep doing what you're doing and keep leaning into your program/progress. (((Hugs)))
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thank you SunnyFrogs for your share and thank you everyone for your interesting ESH, I enjoyed reading all of you. Sunny, you seem to have found your own answers. Your answer is perfect.
I too have struggled a lot with building trust in my couple, and here's my two cents, for what is worth.
In my foo I heard a lot of unmeant apologies, and stinky reasoning a that went with it, so really I don't care about apologies now, I don't take them into account, I never do, they don't mean anything to me.
Forgiveness is something I do for myself, i e let go of the resentment. But trust is something that needs to be earned from me on a day to day basis, trust, reconnection and mutual respect they don't involve only me, they take 2 people. So if I worked on my resentment, worked on my triggers, determined weather this is important for me or not, weather I am willing to adjust my expectations and accept this from time to time because it's a big deal and I'm not perfect either, or weather this IS a big deal and a boundary needs to be set ( i e this is not something I'm willing to take from the person I love; I don't do this to you please don't do the same to me, this is very mportant to me, to us) so if i did all that, for me apologies don't really matter.
I know hubby doesn't want to hurt me intentionally, and if he does it's never on purpose, because now I know that we love each other. I know he wants to make me happy but we definteley do need to agree on what makes me happy :)) because of our different backgrounds ...
Please take what you like and leave the rest,
Hugs,
-- Edited by Ileana on Thursday 15th of April 2021 03:57:26 AM
An apology is great. However after an apology no one can dictate how you behave or feel. Your feelings are your domain.
Being controlled is not pleasant. In this case the terms of an apology are not an example of contrition.
That is a real tough one. I can very much relate
For me when certain people cross lines it will take me a long time to repair. At times certain behavior like outright bullying does not merit repair. Obviously the longer the relationship the harder it is.
In AA the issue of amends is truly difficult because it is only after someone had some maturity and empathy they can feel sorry and understand how much their behavior hurt others
Stan Tatkin talks a lot about having to repair certain relationships. Perhaps he can bhelp you and the AH come up with a strategy. Certainly his work on creating bonds is worth trying.
Amends are a really good topic.
Good luck
Maresie
-- Edited by Maresie888 on Thursday 15th of April 2021 08:56:14 AM
Sunnyfrogs - I just wanted to say "thank you" for having the courage to post your feelings here. I loved reading your light-bulb moment! I have had those too, and many times, it took me writing out my thoughts to finally get there. This forum helped with that tremendously. Everyone's ESH is their own, but I can take golden nuggets from each of them! This thread turned into a real "learning experience!"
I heard so many apologies, that they eventually rang hollow for me, b/c the actions rarely followed the words. But I also found that I tended to rely on my old coping behaviors, which were "stick the unpleasantness in a drawer -don't think about it now." The problem with that behavior was that I would tend to "unpack it" later, and resentments would build. Also, it minimized the actual hurt it caused me. My part of the unhealthy dynamic. My sponsor gave me exactly the same responses that Iamhere posted about. I learned to acknowledge the apology, but understood and accepted that I needed to process it. And no amount of manipulation and gas-lighting on my spouse's part could control that, so "I am still processing my feelings about that" was a great go-to response for me.
I loved what Maresie pointed out: "...no one can dictate how you behave or feel. Your feelings are your domain."
Truth.
Wishing you peace today, SF!!
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"The wolf that thrives, is the one you feed." - Cherokee legend
"Hello, sun in my face. Hello you who made the morning and spread it over the fields... Watch, now, how I start the day in happiness, in kindness." Mary Oliver
This is such a great topic -- thank you SunnyFrogs and everyone who has shared. I have gained a lot of insight from everyone's shares. I agree that changed behavior is the only true amends.
Ileana, you gave me a light-bulb moment with your definition, "Forgiveness is something I do for myself, i e let go of the resentment.
But trust is something that needs to be earned from me on a day to day basis." I am keeping this one. That has been my experience of forgiveness too, that I release theI other person from a debt they can never repay. They cannot un-do something they did. But I can do my best to detach from it. And building trust -- I may or may not be able to regain my trust in someone else. But I can continue to build trust in myself, day by day, that I will not subject myself to unacceptable behavior.
Recently I had the good fortune to receive amends from a program friend. I say "good fortune," because although they did something that hurt my serenity, they used their program, contacted me with both an apology and a report that they had immediately fixed what they could, and asked me if there was anything else they could do to make amends. Now that is amends. So now I am glad that this "bad thing" happened, because it gave me the opportunity to be on the receiving end of true amends. Will I trust, going forward? Well, I have learned that I should trust but verify. In other words, do my part to protect myself.
I was so stoked to come here and have so much ESH to read and absorb. Omg it's always so helpful.
After all that deep thinking yesterday, all the confusion that I was going through, AH actually approached me, sat down and talked to me about it last night. An actual face to face conversation with me and made a genuine apology. And I accepted it.
It was such a good reminder for me to stay focused on myself. Stop trying to analyze him .Learn to trust my instincts more and stop doubting myself so much. And so many other things.
I really am grateful for all the shares here. Thanks again.
-- Edited by SunnyFrogs on Thursday 15th of April 2021 06:46:14 PM
SunnyFrogs, I just wanted to say that forgiveness is not about him it's about you. My mom is the is alcoholic in my life, so it is likely a little different. Her apologies are always insincere and she always circles back to the same arguments. I have just had to accept that at this point she is not ready to admit that she has a problem. Does that mean I can't forgive her? No! I know that with the help of my HP I can. I don't know if this helps, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents.
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"Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you." Ephesians 4:32
Sunny... life with my SO has improved markedly in recent times.