Sunny, I found that detaching from, on a permanent basis, from all those specific triggers with AH works the best.

Your AH's triggers are probably much different than my AH's, but whatever they are those are the ones to avoid.

I find that keeping to myself, my personal situation is best for me, because AH really does not want to listen to or

deal with my thoughts and feelings. I learned that not engaging AH under certain circumstances or asking him any

questions works best for me as well.

Thank you SunnyFrogs. You articulated my thoughts/feelings so well . Thank you David and Debb. My HP always sends messages through people. Daffodils (favorites)are the flowers for March-symbolizing rebirth and new beginnings. I am grateful to have MIP in my recovery garden. Have a fantastic day.

Thanks Daffodils. I didn't know that daffodils are the flowers for March. Thanks for sharing that.

Debbie,can you explain what you mean a little better? Are you saying that you just make sure you don't say or do anything you know will set off your AH? Are you avoiding his triggers or your own? Or maybe both?

Ah,I getcha. Thanks.

Maybe I'm not even talking about detaching,IDK. Maybe it's just not engaging with him at all at times when I know any little thing will set him off.

I don't think that's the same as detaching,is it?

Great discussion, great shares and great question....I believe that there's no right/wrong answer. When I was newer in recovery, I too found comfort in being able to detach at all, esp. when there was chaos/drama. I can totally relate to what you share SF - mine can also be engaging, funny, kind, etc.

I would also get resentments or feel disappointed when things felt so good, and moments later, there was attitude, nastiness, etc. It is hurtful when one you love lashes out. I don't care if the disease is involved or not; it's hurtful. It took me continual practice and a QTIP in my pocket for almost 2 years to learn to Quit Taking It Personally. My sponsor suggested this is how we learn what boundaries we need - when another human acts 'the fool' and we somehow, someway, decide to absorb it, own it, feel it, etc. we are not honoring self and need to explore a tool, a boundary, etc.

I love what Daffodils shares (about the March flower) as well as using the slogans to take action which changed the dynamics. What has happened for me over time is I am faster to realize it's not about me, it's about them and I don't need to point it out, throw blame/shame/other - I just need to take any/all necessary action to get me back to my center.

It is in recovery that I've come to understand expectations and how some of mine weren't super healthy. Every person is different, every relationship is different and more is revealed to me every darn day. My AH and I will celebrate 30 years of marriage in April of this year, and just during this pandemic with planning our groceries/meals, did he share that Coconut Cream Pie is his favorite. Who knew? Every holiday, special time for pie around here, he's asked for Cherry or Apple - Pumpkin once in a while. Who Knew? Certainly not me!!

I tend to avoid labels, names, etc. I know I have many moments where I am less than 'stellar' - grumpy, quiet, sad, disconnected, etc. So many others, my AH included, leave me to it - knowing there will be a bounce. I try to do the same without judging, blaming, shaming, naming it and there's something to be said for time and healing. If you would have asked me 15 years ago if I would be married to this man for 30 years, I would have not just said No, but probably a He!! No!

With 3 A(s) as my only immediate family, I've really had to flip my thinking around. I try every day with my gratitude list and my daily review to focus on what went well or what's working better today vs. what's broken or not working. I do try to stay present and enjoy the best of times and know that this too shall pass - the good and the bad. I was one of those people that could let a spilled beverage in the morning affect my mood all or most of the day BR (Before Recovery). Today, I just clean it up and move on - it's just a spilled beverage, not the end of the world.

Happy March all - can't believe we're already in the 3rd month of 2021....time really seems to fly as I age!!

I think that it is all detachment when we set the boundaries and stay in our own space.

It is about find the answers to live in peace and I believe we all have different circumstances

that drive what we need to do. The main thing is how to avoid the Dr. Jekyll (chaos) and for each of

us it is different. Detaching from the alcoholics disease and their business to do so is what

is the goal, with love and empathy. {{HUGS}}

-- Edited by Debb on Tuesday 2nd of March 2021 08:19:14 AM

Disappointment is z huge trigger for ms. Catavlysmic 

Maresie 

 

SunnyFrogs, Detachment is one of the hardest slogans to do and to get, you are doing fine. Try to remember how cunning, baffling, and insidious this Disease is.The Disease is very good at what it does. It needs people to get your attention. . You are Human Being, not a Human Doing all the time. Give yourself a hug, and pat on the back when you can, and when it gets you again, just say to yourself. "Oh, it's only the Disease".

Don't give it anymore power than it already has. Bring it back to One Day At A Time, or Just For Today.

Love WendyP.

Thanks wendy and daffodils,I appreciate your input.

It's a new week and a new start and I woke up feeling a bit more hopeful.

It's hard,for everyone I think, trying to do what we need during this pandemic especially. It's also disheartening because when we most need the person we are closest to during this, someone who makes us feel safe and secure in an unsafe world they are just not reliable.

I am scheduled for my first dose of the vaccine this week. Although I am scared because of all the bad things I have heard and read,I am grateful to be getting it. I am hoping that by the end of next month I can feel a little safer going out. I know I will still need to take precautions but I can hopefully start doing more than just grocery shopping. I miss being around people.

It's tough always being around the same person whether they're an A or not.

Thanks Deb.

I'm just gonna be honest with you,posts like what you wrote used to irk me. It would make me think what's the point of even being in a marriage if I do that.

Guess what though? I truly appreciate your consistency in saying what you doo. I may not have been able to fully absorb it or appreciate it before but I sure do now.

All it took was asking AH a question. It was a necessary one about one of our kids. And boom,there was an instant switch in him and he's been absolutely intolerable since then. Had I absorbed your words sooner I would have chosen a different time to ask.

Thanks for your ESH

-- Edited by SunnyFrogs on Monday 15th of March 2021 09:10:03 AM

(((SF))) - so, so sorry that the disease 'won the day'. I do love that upon awakening, you realize it's a new day and you've got 'new hope' or a changed outlook. I vividly recall when 'things' shifted here - sometimes with no notice, discussion, questions, etc. It just happens.

I would sit and wonder what I did or what I could do differently to 'avoid' 'this'. What time has taught me is trying to predict what may/may not trigger another is more wasted time. I am best, and we do best when I just focus on me, don't ask questions but instead offer solutions and just move forward.

For me, this was detaching. I had in my mind that as a 'married person' I needed to consult and confer on most/all things for harmony and equality. PFFFFT - no, I don't. I am an intelligent person, capable of making decisions that will benefit me/us and I no longer ask permission, instead, just share outcomes.

It would be nice if we split everything 50/50 - chores, bills, maintenance, etc. - we do not. I do 90% of it all and do so gladly. I am able, it keeps me busy, it helps me learn new things and prepares me to be more independent than I already am. I am not suggesting this is the path for you or anyone - just sharing that when I stopped seeking approval/permission/equality, I felt more free and it worked well here.

My best tools when chaos returns is the serenity prayer, full form or abbreviated (Bless Him, Change Me). I literally repeat this to myself until I can accept that whatever is going on has nothing to do with me, and isn't worth my serenity. When I struggle, as it's personal, I will remove myself from the room, the home, etc. as/if needed. Hopefully, before I engage, not always.

I can remember feeling I had no place to go. I did start a 'cash stash' when I started recovery. I also had (still have) a bag packed in case I needed to go. My AH is not abusive, just mean when he doesn't get his way so that bag is not to escape him but rather to save, protect or preserve my serenity. I asked a few close friends if I could spend the night if I ever needed to. I got yes answers and didn't have to explain in detail why.

So - detaching takes many forms - and, there's no shame in reacting to the chaos once in a while. It's when we slip that we realize we don't want to 'be like that' and we continue to chase change/growth. It's all about practice, practice, practice and progress...hang in there SF - you got this!!

Thanks iamhere. Reading your share was helpful and a perspective I hadn't really thought about.

I do spend much time trying to figure out and avoid what's going to trigger AH. And tbh it feels mentally exhausting after awhile because it makes me feel like I'm walking on eggshells.. Until I can figure out or practice a different way it's what I need to do for right now.

This last time he turned into Jeckyl was very triggering for me and my PTSD symptoms are still in high gear. I just can't even really look at him or talk to him right now without my heart pounding,surges of adrenaline through my body and thoughts that I have to escape.

My point in sharing that is your share made me realize that my PTSD and my triggers and how I react are my responsibility. It's not anyone else's job to learn what triggers me and try to avoid them . So hmmm...that's food for thought once my symptoms lessen and I can think more clearly.

I don't ask AH for permission before making decisions but I do run things by him almost all the time. I do ask his thoughts and what he would do,what he think would be best,etc. Not that I go by his opinion but rather because it seems like the 'marriedly' (I dont think that's a real word) thing to do. That's more food for thought,doing that. I didn't have to ask the question about our child that set him off. I felt like I should but in actuality,no I didn't need to. I would have been better off not asking anyway.

I do have a bag thatI keep packed,just in case.And stashed cash. In reality I do have places I could go temporarily if needed. I guess it's emotionally I feel I have no where to go when I've been triggered.

I appreciate your share. It reminds me I need to work towards being more independent. And actually,I have started therapy again to help me with all of this. Something nice about coming here is members have real world experience whereas my therapist doesn't.

Thanks for your share too Jerry. You made me think of my sister with your positivity .She is not an Alanon member but she relies on her HP to get her through all the storms in her life. She has completely turned her life around and is so successful. To me it seemed like she worked so hard to get where she is. To hear her talk about it, she makes it sound so effortless and like it was her HP that did all the work and all she did was trust the process.

I wish I could be more trusting of not just my HP but also this program. It still feels like much,much hard work to me.

(((SF))) - I hear you and can so relate. I try to not discuss mental health here as it's considered an outside issue. It's fine to do so - it's just a personal boundary for me that I try to keep focus on recovery strategies vs. other strategies. I will tell you that seeking outside help of every/any kind is a great choice when needed.

When I got to Al-Anon, I had anxiety so bad which triggered panic attacks that kept me from driving. I could not predict what would trigger them, and my body would shut down - faint, black-out, pass-out, etc. Some days were constant and other days, all was well. The perpetual stress I imposed on myself living with 3 actives A(s) was truly too much for me. I did counseling and sought outside help which was healing for me.

What my experience has been (over time and embracing this program) is when I am not putting myself first, I'm not being authentic and it just leaves me less joyful. I had to learn from a professional how to tell my family that I wasn't feeling well and would prefer to talk later. All of my A(s) are male and my males are truly very, very different from me - thinking, processing, priorities, etc. Some of this may be disease related and some of it may be gender related. I really don't know and have just come to accept that focusing on my needs and being true to me keeps me grounded more than trying to figure out what's a good time to ............................... or when should I ask ..................................

I have to share that as I've become more independent, authentic and self-assured, my guys all like me better, treat me better and tend to come find me for things. We've had some major flip-flopping as I've embraced recovery. I can tell you that countless times in the last 10+ years, I've opted to just let go, let God and keep my mouth shut in the face of sarcasm, cruelty, etc. and when I just allow things to unfold, all truly is well. 2 of my 3 guys not only want to be around and have real dialogue, they apologize when wrong without being told they are wrong.

I still have a physical response to the chaos/insanity this disease brings. I can feel it starting from within and my best tool at that moment is to just pause long enough to pray before I proceed. More often than not, if it involves active disease, my proceed 'action' is no response at all. I have actually sat in my front room, in front of the TV, pushed pause, allowed my A to scream, rage, etc. and not responded. Mine tend to bore easily when I don't react, so off they go and I un-pause. I am not unaffected; these events are absolutely devastating, frightening, maddening, sad and disappointing! Yet, I know deep down that I am completely powerless and anything I do, say, suggest, scream, cry - in that moment - will not help or calm anything.

So - do whatever works for you to keep you grounded and calm. My daily goal is just to find and keep my joy and my serenity. It's a goal, so if I get sad or mad or ________________ - it's OK - I'm human. I try to start my day over and will do this again and again if need be. We matter and I have found that calm self advocacy in any form is far better for me than trying to read the mind of another or project timing for anything! Keep doing what you're doing and you'll continue to find improvement. It's all about progress, not perfection and a bad day is not a failure or even a set-back - it's just a bad day!!

(((Hugs))) - great thread, lovely shares & exactly how it all works - sharing ESH with each other...

-- Edited by Iamhere on Tuesday 16th of March 2021 06:04:59 PM