Not an ultimatum - Al-Anon Family Group

Jeannie · ~*Service Worker*~

Not an ultimatum

mebjk · Senior Member

Jeannie,
In my experience, it is not good to hold to ANY hard and fast rule, such as "never issue an ultimatum." Life experience often causes us to break our own rules!
It sounds to me, however, as if you are seriously looking at your marriage, trying out all the possible options in your mind, knowing you have lived through some of the options and that maybe they are not entirely satisfactory at this point. What I think you are saying is that in order for you to move forward at this point - whatever that means - you need to sit down with your husband and see where he is. I trust you will look at both his words and his actions.
Something important seems to be going on with you, and I'm sure it is the power of working the 12 steps that is making you change. Sometimes when we change we leave someone behind; sometimes when we change we accept the situation in a profoundly different way. That is for you to decide.
Thank you for sharing so openly with us. We all love you.
mebjk

Jill · ~*Service Worker*~

(((sweet Jeannie))) What is it you want? If he says now he's ready to recover, will that change your outcome? He wants another child? Please don't feel unqualified to be his wife because you can't have more children. As you point out, he already doesn't behave in a fatherly way (support, dependability, even his presence around his children). I thank God your kids have you and each other.

I know it's a bewildering situation you're in. Let this be about YOU, your wants and your options. I send you all my best ---Jill

jrtjosey · ~*Service Worker*~

You have every right to know where YOU stand in life and that includes your marriage. If he does not want to work on it or the drinking, what will you do? You can talk to him without the answer to that question, so no ultimatum attached to conversation.

Josey

Maria123 · ~*Service Worker*~

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((Jeannie))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))),

This is just my opinion (because you asked) and of course you can take what you liked and leave the rest.

I believe it is absolutely alright for you to sit down and talk about your marriage. That's not an ultimatum. An ultimatum would be if you said we either and sit down and talk about this marriage or you are gone. That's not what you are asking.

Regarding your marriage, wow, your story brings up a lot of memories and my heart hurts with the hurt you are experiencing now.

For me, I did leave my marriage. I love my husband "through glimpses" that I see in him every so often which gives me pause to wonder "what if." But my reality is that he's not gonna change. He's a wonderful man. It doesn't make him a bad person. I've changed and without him growing with me that is what left the wide gap for us and leaves me wanting more and feeling I deserve more. We have been through many separations such as you. And it's true, if you aren't together in every way through trials and tribulations, you are holding all the responsibilities while he is getting off scot-free and his children are being well taken care of.

I've gone back to school and have learned a lot about strategic planning, etc. And the funny thing is if marriages had goals and strategic plans with budget planning, etc. I think many more marriages would be happier. And of course using Tradition 1 - Our common welfare should come first; personal progress for the greatest number depends upon unity, would make for some fantastic relationships.

So though I have rambled a wee bit know that you deserve the very best relationship in this world. You are worthy. If your hubby can't deliver then only you can decide. A tell-it-like-it-is book is: He's just not that into you with a link: http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/excerpts/2004-09-08-hes-just_x.htm

It's sure helping me understand to not make excuses and stop accepting men who are not emotionally available for me. I hope I have helped you.

Love Maria

debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi jeannie. I too feel or felt as you. My experience was if I asked, I knew the answer,"I don't know." My A has always said that.

Do you honestly think your A thinks about it? I found A's are so selfish, as long as things feel ok for them, ie: I can drink when I want, I live at mommies, I have no bills or responsibilities. I can play with my kids and not have to take and bs or discipline them...

A's know what they need to do. But if they are comfortable, why bother?

love,debilyn who knows you will do the best thing. and no it does not sound like an ultimatum just to ask.

serendipity · ~*Service Worker*~

so many of these post seem to be just what i need to hear also. thank you for yours. i went to an open aa meeting tonight just to try to regain some compassion and perspective. i'm still mad though. my a living with his mother and all the sickness that goes with that is infuriating. i know my husband is currently incapeable of having a discussion based in reality. but that hasn't stopped me in the past from treating him as if he were a partner in this marriage. i talked to him that way more ofr my own sake. i think i've always seen him as the person he wanted to be and now i see what he is. i agree that marriages are not disposable. i think that i have gone to whatever lengths necessary to make this marriage work. i know that in his heart all he wants is to have us back and be a husband and father. my fantasy is his but he has a disease which is bigger than my love. i have to make my own decisoins based on what is best for me and the kids and right now i can't handle his input. his input is not rational. his best senerio right this minute is live with his mommy and call the kids occasionally and have her take care of him. i am still very vunerable to him and his manipulations so my best sereio is to let go and let god and consintrate on that which i can control- myself.i totally feel for you. driving home from the aa meeting i was thinking why am i attracted to them? they have a way of being the most honest and innocent loving people. their hearts are in the right place until the disease takes over and even still those of us who love them remember even when they can't. that's why we are just as incredible as they are. sorry i always ramble......you are not ever alone....peace and love

d53sjurne · Senior Member

Hi Jeannie,

I am so extremely grateful and appreciate the opportunity to be able to read a post like yours.

For 30 yrs I have waited to find something this simular to what I went thru when I divorced. I was beginning to think that I was the only one that thought this way (what you are asking and thinking about).

When something as serious as this is, and imperative to a life decision,(involving marriage and children brought into the world together) it is my opinion that anyone deserves to , how should I say this as not to be mistaken(which I'm afraid I might be and don't intend on hurting anyone on purpose with my lack of a way of putting things in the right/better/acceptable, etc way), have some space to think things thru. There are times I find when space is needed to get a clearer picture of the situation. And to calm down the intensity of the feelings to think clearer and from a more balanced perspective(especially when the other one involved does not/cannot/will not think along the same way/patterns/style of thinking to communicate in/with)). I found being to close to the stimulus of upsetting things could interfere with the clearness of my thinking and disrupt the balance/groundedness to make the decision. I found these are thinking levels that are an individual thing(using thing for lack of deciding on other descriptive word/s, please substitute yours). The other person I found may not be able to relate this way, in this style of communication, to be able to be on the same page , sort of speak, to accomplish a two way conversation to reach an agreeable decision.

So, what I was left with was similar delimas as you speak of here on your post. I could share more , but this takes alot to find the right words to express what I want to share with you and don't want to cloud my response with my added details at this time. I hope I've conveyed to you an understandable response and is helpful to you. I have learned that when trying to be on an intellectual level of thinking, that also being emotional at the same time, can , for me, at times destroy all my intelectual thinking and have me sounding like a babbling idiot. I only find few that are able to acknowledge this concept. I am alone alot because of it. I learned that thinking is a different function than emotion residing in the same brain and body and can sabatoge each other and be very damaging to self , etc.

Well this to me is alot to think about and dont want it to be too long.

Lots of Blessings to ya, Prayers and ALL the rest. Love , Your Sis in Recovery.

-- Edited by d53sjurne at 02:35, 2006-04-23

debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Jeannie believe D makes a good point. The A is not on the same level of thinking as we are. We can be weighing things and analyzing etc. But all the A is doing is thinking about when he can get money to use,what he or she will use, will I have enough in the house to last untillllll

uno? A relationship is like not on the agenda. For us, family is first. For the A, drug is first second and third to infinity.

sigh, love,debilyn

d53sjurne · Senior Member

OMG, somebody understands, THANK YOU HP SO MUCH FOR MY GUIDENCE WITH THIS.

And thank you, DEBILYN, WITH ALL MY HEART AND SOUL FOR YOUR ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF UNDERSTANDING TO GO WITH IT.

It makes me so touched to know, i am crying so hard to know someone understands and says so. I musta got it across this time.

It is so lonly when no one does here on my island. I AM A ROCK, I AM AN ISLAND was one of my favorites, too !

You brought me

LOVE TO ALL

-- Edited by d53sjurne at 01:01, 2006-04-23

Jeannie · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Everyone)))

Thanks so much all of you. You have given me a lot to think about.

I know when we are unsure, it is best to do nothing, but the only thing I am sure of is that I don't want to live this way anymore.

I have no idea what I would do no matter what he says. My brain hurts I have been thinking so much. It is time for me to open my mouth. I realize he cannot be rational with me. I also know that our marriage is not high on his list of priorities.

I have to do this for me, so I know I tried to communicate. Him and his Mother said I was being immature when I wouldn't speak to him, I was doing what I had to at the time for me. This time I was the selfish one. Well if he wants to talk, I'm ready to listen, and if he has nothing to say, then whatever I decide, I will know I gave him the opportunity to say his piece.

D, you got your point across just fine, thanks for the input.

can't even begin to say how much I appreciate all of you.

Lots of love...Jeannie

Atera · Veteran Member

I have to say thank you again to all of you. My AH is living with his mom too, and he has told me how his life is getting "better and better" since we seperated. He is "so much less stressed." I took this for a minute and was very hurt by it. (See how this has affected me?) But then I realized, it's not me who has been stressing him out, he is less stressed now because he has no bills to pay, and no responsibilities. He says he gets to see his son more, but his mother told me that when his son comes over, she is left taking care of the boy most of the time while th AH goes out and drinks. Rational thinking has no part in this for either of us. I am hurt, when I should realize that this is just the disease trying to be cruel to me, and he can't see what he is doing to me, his mom, or his son..... I am glad I read your words today. This helps me with my perspective.

Thank you!

~Atera

nmike · ~*Service Worker*~

Jeannie,

Thanks for thinking out loud. I was going to post and say very similar things but maybe it is a sign to mull over my decisions too. I love my AH who is sober with all my heart. It is not reciprocal. I too thought of an ultimatum because it has been almost a year since we have been separated. I am still very married and wonder what to do. I am surviving but not really happy. I too have had limited contact and conversations. Ultimatums have always backfired on me. He doesn't do compromisesnegoitations. I have been stuck with most of the work and responsibilities. If you asked him I sure that he would say he is happy. And I remain in limbo. LImbo is harder but maybe not as hard as ending a marriage that you still care about.

I love the responses. Such insight. They have said here that your HP will let you know if it is a right decision. I make sure that in my limbo that I am still making some self improvement even if it is very small. I need to be self sufficient regardless of the outcome.

In support,

Nancy

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