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I woke up this morning and checked my husband's cell phone. I was being nosy. I found a bunch of texts from another woman. I called the number and spoke with the woman. We have the same name, imagine that. He met her at a truck stop on his way through Georgia. They have been talking for about a month. He told her at first that I was an old girlfriend (my name is tatood on his neck) and then after a few days he told her we were separated because I cheated on him. How could I have been so stupid to think this would never happen to me? I can't accept this as part of his addiction. I don't know what recovery says to do about this. I have spoken with him about it and of course he said he didn't do anything wrong because they haven't slept together yet. I am so angry. I want to hurt him so bad. I am staying calm. I am not hollering or screaming...okay I did tell him I would sleep with someone else by night fall. But who can blame me? Anyway, I can't believe this is a symptom of his disease even though the literature says it is. Why is it? Does anyone know? How does the program say to handle this?
Wow that is a tough one. I haven't had that experience yet....Just try to stay calm focus on you and do some soul searching on what you want your life to be.
You have been going thru so much lately...Know my prayers are with you.
I know decisions and actions we must take sometimes are very difficut. Just do what is the very best thing for you.
Oh Powerless - I know you've replied to my posts so you know I have been going through this. Even though it is never acceptable, I have helped myself to come to some understanding of it.
My belief is that they want so much to be normal and know they're not and WE know they're not. So in a sense, even though we are their 'port in the storm', by finding other people and having those other people believe they don't have this disease, it gives them a sense that they ARE normal and can feel this way with people who do not know them.
The true test for them lies in realizing this, and seeing the difference. I asked my 'A' when he was on chat lines to meet other women, that if he were to be truthful about himself, how many women would he really attract, and he said - 'you're right - it's all a lie'. I gave him a scenario:
'Hi - My name is so-and-so and I'm an alcoholic. I've been verbally and emotionally abusive to my wife and children for many years. I'm looking for someone else to do this with, because my family is onto me now, and their tolerance level is waning. Would you like to be my next victim or at least spend a little time with me here and there, so I can feel as though I don't have this disease?'
I asked him if he were truthful, how many women would warm to him. He really saw that what he was doing is a lie, and a fantasy of what it could be like if he were normal. I believe truly and completely that this is the reason for the cheating or affairs. It's an opportunity to be in a circumstance where one can pretend to be normal, without having to do the work to become normal (of course I'm using the word normal, in the sense of someone who has dealt with their issues and come to terms with who they are).
You are the person who knows him, and for this reason you can tend to be the enemy, as well as - of course - that 'port'. Without you there, this fantasy would not have a foundation to happen. Just think of it - he met someone with YOUR NAME who doesn't know who he is. That makes the fantasy even more compelling, because I believe what he wants is YOU, but a you that hasn't seen him this way, because ultimately he doesn't want to be or be seen in the way that we see our 'A's'.
Many things can be under the category of "symptom of the disease". It is up to you to place boundaries and decide what is acceptable and what is not. I can accept many of the symptoms... lying, sneaking to drink, hiding alcohol, spending money for alcohol, jail time etc. , things that the disease needs to do to survive.
For me, another woman in any form is not something I could accept and can not be excused by the disease. The person committing adultery always seems to think affairs (of the heart) are OK if they didn't have sex. What if a spouse would go to Cancun for a week with the opposite sex?.. and have no sex? Is that ok too? I have stood by my A thru hell and high water., another woman in any form is a deal breaker for this marriage.
Just another point of view.. Christy
-- Edited by Christy at 08:59, 2006-03-30
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
What I get out of the literature is that it is up to us to decide what is acceptable and unacceptable to us and that we do not have to accept unacceptable behavior.
Interesting take by HadEnuff and in some ways I agree. My A tended to hang out w/ teens, then would involve our daughter in all of her problems and then even including her in the drinking. My daughter has also said that Mom smoked cigarettes w/ her but my wife denies that. My daughter just turned 15 !!!!!
It's all about wanting friends and surrounding yourself w/ people 'like you' to feel normal. In some ways I've done the same. I've lived in dysfunction all my life and I surrounded myself with later in life because it felt comfortable or normal. I'm learning w/ the program that I don't have to do that anymore.
Know that your chosen family in Alanon will support you no matter what you decide.
{{{Powerless}}}
Bob
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You are a perfect child of God and God and I love you just the way you are! (added by me...in that special alanon way)
I don't know how the program says to handle it and I don't know that it's a symptom of the A's disease. Being a part of that program, too, I know that it was never a symptom of my disease. But I do have some experience with a roaming hubby. My opinion is that while it is not necessarily a symptom of the disease, it's the same self-centeredness and lack of morals that accompanies it. Sometimes out of the fears, sometimes out of the insecurities, of needing to feed the ego, etc...
For me, I was not willing to be in a 3-way marriage. He told me one night that he had been having an affair (I think I knew this, but denial - well you know how that works!) and I asked him if he planned to continue. He said yes. At that point I told him it was probably a good idea if he left in the morning. And we've been apart since.
In hindsight, it was a good thing. How I had that moment of clarity to respond as I did, I don't know, except for the grace of God. It was probably the first healthy decision I made for myself!
This may not help, but it's just a little of my experience. See, my father, my ex, my son and myself are all As, I'm the only one in recovery for that, and now I'm having to get into a program for dealing with the other As in my life.
((((Powerless)))) - I was in the same frame of mind as Christy ... until it happened. I never thought that would be something I could/would forgive, but you know... how you really feel inside is the only thing that matters. Regardless of what the program says if you can truly forgive the person you love for what he's done in the midst of this disease, then it's not a deal breaker unless you decide it is.
I don't offer that as advise, just how I look at things. You can wonder forever why he does that and never know. Guilt, search for normalcy, lowered inhibitions due to use? None of that really matters because you didn't make him do that.
There is a web site that has some interesting reading on the subject if you want it. Let me know and I will PM it to you.
For me, as much as it tore a giant hole in my heart, I really didn't hurt from it any more than some of the nasty things she has said or done due to this disease. That made a difference to me. I was able to file it under that's what A's do, but everyone would not do that. It's really up to you.
Take care of you, and I'm very sorry you have to deal with this.
Everyone is here for you...
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
I am so so very sorry you are going through this on top of everything else. I have been there. I had the same thoughts that you threatened him with...."Sleeping w/someone else to get back at him". Take my advice and DON'T DO IT!!! It will hurt you more in the end than him. If you want to be w/someone, then be with them....but don't do it out of spite. It will not make you feel better about the situation.
That is all of the advice I feel I can give you. Just know that you are not alone. We are all here for you. I don't know who else has been through this type of thing before but I have & I know how much it hurts. Hang in there, stay strong.
Let me clarify... This is not a frame of mind for me. It is totally unacceptable to me and a strong moral belief.. I'm not without experience. I left my 1rst husband with a baby under each arm (1 mo. and 20 mo. old) for this very reason. Some people would and can accept it, I am not one of them. IMO, I have given, forgiven and stood by, over and above the call of duty to my marriage. For me, it is not a marriage with only one person committed to it's sanctity. The only reason this marriage has survived (20 yrs) through the death of a child, yrs of alcoholic abuse/actions, illness and several brushes with death is because no matter what happened, we are solidly committed only to eachother.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Christy, I hope I did not offend you. I completely understand and respect your decission. I was just saying never in my wildest dreams would I have thought I would have stayed in that circumstance... but I did with no regrets.
Of course, when it happened I told her to leave. She did and we didn't get back together until it was verifyably over. (Guess I should mention that...)
I appreciate everyones help here. Sorry if I upset anyone.
Blessings to all!
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
He has two very high risk factors, being a truck driver and an addict. Sexual addiction or deviant behavior is very common in the world of cocaine and crack. They don't think the same, the brain is completely confused by the chemicals. And Lord knows an addict doesn't know what they want except in the momoent and another fix. Please go get yourself checked out by a doctor to be safe, a family planning clinic should check you for free and again in six months. You don't know this is the only woman. Protect those children and take precautions today! Good hand washing, gloves with any body fluid contact or potentional. Cover all scraps and cuts at all times. Please be safe and take care of you. You deserve better with all the recovery you are working on.
Josey
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Julianne - It's best to move on. You cannot look back in anger in life. It's too short
I am so sorry. This heaped on top of everything else you have been dealt. I am with Christy on this one. It is a deal breaker for me too. However I think almost all of you are saints for putting up with what you do. To me it is just not worth it. I would rather be alone than with someone whose drinking makes me miserable.
I am so sorry I too have felt the sting of not only him "talking" to another woman and giving her his attention but he also has had an full blown affair where the girl knew about me and my kids and still pursued him.
I can only tell you what a counselor told my husband and I, I was trying to down play the woman that he just "talked" to and I was trying to get my husband to choose me over the woman he was having the affair from (2 seperate incidents but counselor and I were talking about them with my husband present in the room). My husband was saying oh I was only talking to the other girl, and the counselor looked at him and said "you know what it is time you call it what it was, anytime you are doing something that you wouldn't tell your wife you are cheating her, plain and simple, if you knew that she wouldn't approve and you do it behind her back it is cheating".
With that said I am certainly no expert on what to do, I am right in the middle of dealing with the aftermath of a long affair and alcoholism. I too have touble believing it is a part of the disease, because I don't know if he would have done this if he was sober, but I do believe it is true that the inhabitions are less or taken away all together if you drink. I so far have chosen to try to work things out with him and he claims that he went through hell the whole time and would never do that again but you know I don't really believe that.
The choice to stay or go can only be made by you and what you can live with, I thought I would throw him right out the door if he cheated and then the first girl happened and it wasn't a very big thing and it ended as soon as I found out, and then there was the second girl and she was ruthless and so was he, he came really close to leaving and I was ready for him to go, then he decided to stay and dropped her (it only took 3 years of hell). Three years I allowed him to do this to me. After all that he is still in my home and I have so much anger, resentment and pain from all this. I am confused everyday about what I should do.
I don't know if any of this helps but I do know that only you can decide whether you can let it go and move on or if you can't live with him after this. Take care of yourself, stay in touch with your HP and do what is best for you.
I have already replied once to this topic....but WOW what a topic. So many people have so many things to say, I feel compelled to say a bit more as it is a topic that touches me to the very core.
Some of you have said cheating is part of the disease. Some of you have said it is not. Here is my opinion and the reason why. I do not believe it is part of the disease. I have been there and I remember in my more innocent days that if my husband ever laid a hand on me or ever cheated on me, I would be gone so fast, he wouldn't even remember what I looked like. But you know the saying, "You never know how you are going to react to a situation until your are in it." How true that is.
My husband back handed me once when we were dating...I was only 17 and was so shocked I didn't know what to do. I stayed w/him. Then once when my son was 1, he had me cowaring in a corner of our apartment w/my body shielding our son....he never hit me but the fear & threat were there. Once again, I stayed. On the fourth incident over the course of the 1st 5 years of our marriage. On that 4th incident where my body left a permenant impression on our wall, I swore I would leave if it happened again....it hasn't, thankfully.
I am getting off the subject - sorry....so I thought I would never stay if my husband cheated on me. Then it happened. He came home 1 morning, drunk & told me that he had fallen in love w/another woman that he worked with. I was mortified. I told him that if he wanted a divorce, I wouldn't fight him on it. After months of him coming & going and me seducing him every chance I got hoping to turn his eye back on me instead of her, he finally broke off the affair and stayed w/me. I thought I had won that battle. But I didn't. It is a battle I fight every day. I said I forgave him for the affair & the few he had before that (he told me about them during the few months he was w/that other woman - he decided to come clean w/it all). I don't think I did ever forgive him, just pretended for him & me. I know I never forgot.
We have been married for 13 years. He now not only had a drinking problem...but a cocaine addiction to. He swares that he isn't cheating while he is away for days at a time....but I am in the standing belief that "once a cheat, always a cheat". It may be wrong...but it is how I feel. As far as cheating being part of the disease - I don't think so. You know, he was sober all those nights he left to meet that other woman. Granted he was drunk when he got home....but sober & clear headed when he left the house or work to hook up.
Some of the other times, he may have been drunk when he was hooking up but I am sure he knew what kind of mood he was in before he started drinking, knew what he wanted.
Sorry this is so long. But that is my take on it. And FYI - I am in the process of selling my house so I can leave my husband. The alcohol, drugs and danger of it all has finally become to much for me to stand. I dream of having control of my life again, a small house w/small yard where the kids & I can live in peace w/out having to worry about what my husband is doing. It is the dream that sustains me every day. The progress is slow but I am getting there.
God bless every one here & thank you so much for listening, sharing & being so supportive.
I feel so bad that you continue to have to go through this.
I have put up with a lot of stuff that most people think I need my head examined for, but to me cheating is cheating. I could not handle any other woman being the object of my husbands affections. I don't share!
I can forgive a lot, but fidelity in my marriage has never been in question. I will not risk my health on his indescretions. I think if a man will cheat, it doesn't matter if he is A or not, it is still cheating. I know many who have been able to forgive and move on from it, I know I am not one of them.
The only person who can decide what you can work through is you. You have put so much faith and hope into this man, and you have sacrificed so much.
Keep remembering that you are important. Keep working your program, it will help you make your choices, it will help clear your head. Trust HP to show you what is right for you.
I though I would chime back in because I wanted to agree with those of you saying that you never know how you will react until something happens, I know we are all sharing how we feel and many of you probably would be able to just walk away if any affair happened, but I know how I felt when I first shared of the affair my a had, I wanted to forgive my husband and move on, and everyone kept saying it was a deal breaker that they wouldn't deal with it and I felt so weak.
First off I am weak but I want to say something that came to me, I believe our HP puts road blocks in our way when we are about to act rashly, road blocks in the form of confusion, finances, etc. Anyway my point is that I think for someone who has been hit with the shock of an affair it shakes our strength to its core, I just know that in my family and my mind it was unacceptable to have an affair and it was a definite deal breaker, but I turned out not to be strong enough or maybe my HP said no you stay and fight. Whatever it was, I am still with my a after the affair, things are not good but I do see the light. I suddenly realize that things could be ok and if they are not well then I'll deal with it. I needed this test in my life to get strong.
Maybe there is another affair in my future and I pray that if there is I can do the right thing, what ever that is for me, I believe it would be to call it quits.
I mean lets face it if asked when we were younger if our husbands turned out to alcoholics wouldn't we have said that was a deal breaker too. So I guess I'm taking the long way to get here but what I mean is, if you can't deal with this and you need for your husband to leave then that is what is for you but if you aren't ready for that then maybe you need to slow down and let the shock wear off and then go from there.
I hope this helps, everyone of these shares have helped me with my thinking in my own situation and I hope Powerless you find the strength as well to get through this and the support for whatever you choose.
First of all I think it is incredible that you are coming here and not screaming and hollering. There was a time when your life stuff spilled all over the place.
I think that someone can have alcoholism and other traits. They could for example have a personality disorder and alcoholism. I don't know what your husband has, certainly lots of issues there. I think that lots of people object to having everything lumped under alcoholism. For example I am an incest survivor, a codependent, a survivor of domestic violence and more. I could have a long long sentence with all of those things attached to it. Generally I do not name them all here.
I once was married to a man who was an alcoholic and a cheater. I must say when it became apparent he was cheating (one of our friends told me) it was hurtful. He also lied about it. I think many many things can lead to having a spouse lie.
I am glad that you are sitting on this and taking care of yourself and looking for ways to deal with this. I am proud of you and your progress and your ability to keep working on your issues not matter how much chaos your husband pulls around you.
I mostly agree with HadEnuff. In our case, I DO believe it was part of his disease - just another way to divorce himself from that hard old reality. He was doing it for the same reason and in the same way he was drinking, drugging, buying things compulsively - all his addictive behaviours. Some way for him to get away from who he is, and how things are.
If I didn't believe this, I don't think I would have been able to forgive it, but now, (it's been a year and a half since any slight problem, and well over two years since actual cheating), I find, kinda to my surprise, that I have.
This does NOT mean that you have to put up with it. Whether he does this because he is an addict or because he is an a****le, the person who decides what you will stand for is YOU.
Don't let him blame you for it; use your program skills to decide what you really want. Take care of your own self, don't do something stupid just to get back at him. You know it won't feel good tomorrow, if you do. This certainly CAN be a deal breaker, but it doesn't have to be if you don't want it to. YOU decide - not him, not your friends, not us.
I am also dealing with the 'other woman' issue.My A husband met her online.They have never met face to face yet he says he loves her and wants to have a future with her.He is 'sober', quit drinking 16 years ago.
I wish I could send him packing or leave myself,however we bought this house as a fixer upper and we have put alot of time and money into it.We stand to make a very nice profit when we sell it and I am hanging in here till then.Once it is sold we are going our separate ways.After 36 years of marriage.I am anxious to get away for good.It is strange to stand downstairs and listen to him upstairs talking to her on the phone.She sent him a Christmas card.He has to stop whatever he is doing at 9 pm to go meet her on the computer.I am not in love with him anymore but I have been with him good or bad since I was 17.My family tells me I am being disrespected,and I know I am,but my share of the money from the house will help me to make a nice living for myself.I deserve that,why should I give it up ?I have tried to talk to him about it and even asked him to wait until we are separated to continue this 'affair' but he thinks I am asking him to stay with me.He also says it shouldn't hurt me because it is over between us.He just doesn't get it.
Sorry this is so long.Got carried away.
Will be keeping you in my prayers, I know how you feel.
What I do know is that alcoholism is cunning, baffling and powerful. And to be truthful...that's all I ever needed to know.
Whatever the alcoholic does or does not do.....is simply on them. I learned that I had to take care of myself. I had to set healthy boundaries for myself. Sometimes those boundaries were painful for it meant changes in my life when they were crossed.
Do you have a sponsor you can talk to about this? If not, maybe look for a woman to sponsor you. Take care of you!
