Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Em1234 · Member

Losing my husband to AA

Enigmatic · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Em, welcome

This is holiday time for some of the AlAnon "regulars" that often comment here on the board and have much more experience than I, but here are a couple things I thought of as I read your comment.

Great to hear that you are connected with AlAnon meetings, that's what changed my life for the better when I was faced with challenges with my qualifier (the alcoholic in my life). I gained even more early on by reading the AlAnon literature, particularly helpful as I was able to read up on particular topics I was struggling with in between meetings.

In AlAnon, the recommended focus was to identify and work on the thoughts, perceptions, and behavior that I had adopted along the way that were contributing to my unhappiness, distress, or fear, and keep my focus on my recovery rather than my qualifiers. I learned that their recovery is not something I can nor should try to control if I want to feel serenity.

Every individual is different, every case is different, and no one else knows what is best for you outside of your higher power or god of your understanding. For this reason, we avoid giving advice to others or trying to determine what is likely to happen in their situation.

The important thing is you are working on a recovery direction for you, and that is where you will discover what is going to work for you. Keep coming back to meetings and here on the board, glad to have you with us

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi, in my experience AA works on sobriety as the
Number one priority. To an alcoholic, everything else comes behind it. It is literally a matter of life and death. So at first just.not drinking no matter what it takes is a big deal. Then determining what triggers the alcoholic's drinking.

Paul's summary above is great, when I read "How AlAnon Works" I understood a lot about how to keep the focus on me, yet understand how alcoholism works, whether my qualifier is active or in recovery.

Keep coming back, the beginning of recovery can be really hard on everyone.

Kenny

serenity47 · ~*Service Worker*~

I understand your frustration. He is still in early sobriety and finding his balance. That does not make it any easier for you while you are going through it but perhaps helps to understand it a little better. Addiction in my experience is a disease of extremes. When drinking and using, it was never enough and there was one sole focus which was getting drunk/high, or planning to get drunk/high. Everyone is different in how they embrace their recovery. Carrying on with my own life, placing the focus on my own recovery is what is helpful to me. QTIP (quit taking it personally) is something I have to remind myself of often. I have every right to my feelings of being left out or neglected. It is up to me what I choose to do about them. Hang in there and keep coming back.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome to MIP EM - glad you found us and glad that you joined in and shared. I am a double-winner - recovery in both programs - and can say that when I first went to AA, they offer suggestions just as Al-Anon does. The suggestions are similar in both and they have a slogan which could apply to both - "Meeting makers make it". 90 Meetings in 90 Days is heard often, and many who truly desire to not die will attend 2-3 meetings per day.

In AA, we are taught that "To Drink is To Die". A relapse is a bit more severe in AA than Al-Anon, and getting back on course often does NOT happen. The compulsion to drink/use is stronger than any words I can type which is one of many reasons alcoholism is considered a disease, progressive in nature and deadly if not treated.

AA will never tell a member to put family first. AA will never suggest bringing a spouse or significant other to an event unless it's a family event or an open event. I never invited my family or boyfriend to anything as I wanted my recovery to be just that - my recovery. Those who loved me (and probably needed Al-Anon) were my biggest resentments as an alcoholic because they stood between me and my comfort/medicine/addiction.

An alcoholic mind does not process logically or rationally. Removing the substance does not fix alcoholic thinking. Time and practice, just like in Al-Anon, teaches new habits, new ways to think and new tools to use to fight the urges/impulse to self-medicate. It took a couple of years before I went through a day and did not think of or fantasize about escaping with a mind-altering substance.

I encourage you to read, "The Chapter to the Wives" with an open mind - http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_bigbook_chapt8.pdf.

I encourage you to read, "The Family Afterwards" with an open mind - http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_bigbook_chapt9.pdf.

Actually for anyone who is new to recovery programs, I strongly encourage you to read the Big Book - the first 164 pages talk about the disease and how recovery works. The balance has stories - What it Was Like, What Happened and What It is Like Now....

In both sides of the program, we are encouraged to detach from all distractions including people, places and things and focus on self recovery. We are working to reprogram years of faulty thinking, obsessive behaviors and damaging habits that are entrenched in our thinking and doing. We are given a blue-print for success and for most of us, it takes time (life-long) to practice the principles in all our affairs.

I encourage you to go to Al-Anon meetings and find your own support tribe. There is no "We" vs. "Them" and both sides of the program support members to be Happy, Joyous and Free from the bondage of self. I attend meetings on both sides, and we don't talk (gripe, complain, share) about the other. Recovery and sharing is not about the people we live with, bosses, co-workers, etc. - it's about us - individually. He is doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing - whatever it takes to not pick up the first drink, one day at a time.

Please keep in mind - him not introducing you is exactly correct - the program is anonymous - who you see here, what you hear here, when you leave here - let it stay here. We are asked in both programs to never disclose how you know anyone from any meeting. Recovery is not a social club - it's a survival group. Those who are serious about sobriety will completely submerge themselves in the fellowship, the service and the program. All that you share about him are really, really good signs about his desire to be/stay sober.

I do understand how you can feel left out and left behind. My experience is if you don't immerse yourself in your own recovery, these feelings will multiply instead of level-out. As imperfect humans, we adapt well to changing situations. As one affected by this disease, our adaption skills are often very reactive and almost a 'fire-fight' mode. When the A seeks recovery, there's a void to fill. The relationships that last and find love and joy again are those where partners love each other enough to detach and recover.

Putting self and recovery first is the best recipe for success. Realizing 4 children means shortage of time/energy, consider what you can do for your own recovery. I hope this is helpful - please take what you like and leave the rest. Keep coming back - there is hope/help in Al-Anon.

tiredtonite · Veteran Member

Hi Em,

I understand those "left out" feelings. I had them too at one time. It helped me to attend some open AA meetings by myself particularly speaker meetings to hear other alcoholics presenting their journey from their time as substance abuser to their present day as sober alcoholics. One of our Alanon slogans is Listen and Learn. I was able to practice it at these open AA meetings. Not being an alcoholic, it was helpful hear these sharings. It was also very important that I know hold up the sharing alcoholic's experience for comparison to my own family member who is an alcoholic.

You asked for shares of happy ever after of husbands and wives. I am with a recovering alcoholic seven year. I believe alcoholism is an illness. I saw it take a toll on my partner physically, spiritually and emotionally when he was newly sober. It doesn't surprise me that your husband had very little so say at his nan's birthday since he's newly sober and likely in the past, his best communication was with a bottle of booze which was a silent partner. Time and patience is important. It's also not surprising that he even fell asleep at the family gathering. He's in early sobriety and his physical body and mind is still out of wack and trying to adjust and withdraw from alcohol, restore itself, become balanced.

The reason AA creates so many activities is because alcoholics need to occupy their minds and bodies. My partner complained of racing thoughts, drinking nightmares and daytime reminder that popped into his head of less than admirable past actions. It's a lot to cope with so AA helps to fill up the time that use to spent drinking by creating a safe, recovery based environment. It's not unusual for family to find themselves on the outside looking in during early months in AA. This is where continuing to seek support and bonding within the fellowship of Alanon can be really helpful. Try not to presume his emotional and physical distance will be a forever thing. He could be obsessed with thoughts of using again. Lots of attendance at AA and sharing such thoughts with other alcoholics would be a constructive way keep sober. He's basically in a fight for his life.

I can share with you a mistake I made with my now exah. When he was newly sober I was so angry over his past wrongs toward me I believed he owed me a lot. I was very new to Alanon and had not worked the step or gotten a sponsor. I saw myself as "long suffering." The seemingly cavalier attitude of the alcoholics I saw at his rehab annoyed me. As far as I was concerned, he couldn't get his sh#% together quick enough and act like a responsible adult. I was very resentful of his AA fellowship and tired of doing double duty at our house. I considered his recovery in the AA program to be something on the side and our life to be center stage. I felt righteously indignant and insecure and worried that the AA fellowship had the power to break up my marriage. In reality, my ex didn't want any part of AA long term. He chose to continue using and we divorced. Neither of us could clearly see the value of working our own respective programs.

For my part, I made demands of him but few of myself. I guilted him for past unacceptable behavior but was unaccountable for my own unacceptable behavior. I unfairly judged his fellows in his program from a place of superiority and refused to acknowledge a higher power working in his life. I believed myself to be that higher power - that I had the answers for him. Recovery in Alanon showed me I had very few answers concerning myself.

In my current relationship, communication is very open, honest and mutually respectful. We are both doing the best we can to live the 12 steps one day at a time. We keep our AA and Alanon programs close when gathering with family. When we met, he told me he was a recovering alcoholic. He said if it was an issue for me we didn't need to continue seeing one another. He said that his sobriety and attendance in AA would take precedence - if he felt he needed a meeting, he was going to have to go rather than spend time with me. He might even need to cut a date short and get himself to a meeting. Basically, I told him the same concerning my own sanity and attending Alanon. I had the benefit of many years in Alanon when I met him. I had greater understanding than at the end of my marriage of the value of 12 step recovery. I know today that Alanon saved my own life and taught me how to live fully.

I hope something here may have helped you in your own process. It's just my experience nothing more. I wish you the best on your recovery journey. ((hugs)) TT

shrnp · Senior Member

Everyone here has made some great comments. Iamhere said that people will attend 2-3 meetings a day and that is true. In larger cities they have meetings like that. They even have in some rehab locations out patient services where people can spend the whole day there, then turn around and go to a meeting at night. At first it can be pretty intense.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Bottom line is that any addiction with or without recovery is a life long deal. Some people wrongfully believe that once the A goes to rehab that's the end of it. It's all fixed and there is no need for follow up.

I remember my XMIL looking at me confused and she was an A saying my XAH went to rehab he was all fixed (this had been over 20 years ago) .. I had to laugh to myself later because I realized she was not in a space to get it.

The first 2 years of an A's recovery is getting the wiring of the brain worked out and that number depends on the number of years the addiction has been going on. The body has to detox and figure out what is permanent brain damage and what is temporary. There are A's who suffer long term brain damage "wet brain". That's way late term last stages of alcoholism. Just for someone to truly sober up and begin to get into the emotional sobriety of actually feeling again. I know what it was like for me to actually start to feel again outside of my one feeling I was accustomed to, I can't imagine years of holding everything even the good stuff at bay and have that all come flying in. It's overwhelming and scary. I'm not a professional in my mind please go to a meeting .. lol .. it's a good thing. I know it can leave families feeling disconnected and so on. AA has done a better job of being inclusive of families and it is a good thing. I went to multiple events and I'm neither an A or was with one it was during my healing of my broken marriage. It was important to me that my kids see people who were practicing recovery so they knew it was something that could happen for their dad.

Keep coming back and more importantly keep going to meetings

Hugs S :)

Em1234 · Member

First of all I would like to say thank you so much for all of you replying and sharing. I think I will keep coming back and reading each comment when I can to fully understand.

I thought I would give you an update. So how wrong was I! He didn't come home until 2am smashed! Came in and passed out on the sofa. It doesn't really bother me that he relapsed. I have never said he needs to stop the drinking. That is his choice and not for me to tell him what to do.

However what does bother me where the text messages I found on his phone (yes I know that is a total invasion of privacy but I knew there wasn't something quite right and that I wasn't going mad as alcoholics like you to believe). So there where messages to girls, one being 'meet me for a snog'. I confronted him about it that morning, at first he denied it, then he went into attack mode(with words) and said that I make him sick to his stomach and that he wants out, yet he refuses to leave the family home as he won't sofa surf.

So I was right in my thinking, he doesn't want me involved in his amazing new cult AA life, with his new friends and all these prospects. He is done with me know, used me all up. Let me deal with all the shit and now going to start a new life. Basically at the moment he is having the best of both worlds and living like a batcholar.

He said he realised on Saturday that actually he is not an alcoholic and can stop drinking whenever he wants(yeah right). But he likes the fellowship of AA, social life and freedom it gives him, and the 12 steps have help him to get a more manageable life. But it would seem at the expense of his wife and children.

I have been reading the 2 chapters -the wives and family. It talks about the 'killjoy' wife. That is defiantly what I sound like today, and am in a very negative place, but wouldn't anyone who has just found messages like that to girls from AA (the fellowship! More like a dating agency). This is totally out of character for me. I am always the most understanding, positive, patient person etc... Ever, but not today. Today his new found fellowship has ruined my life.

I just knew this would happen, I feel totally mugged off. I have to walk into the alanon meeting tonight, past these girls that he has been messaging, and if I say anything I am being irrational (so says my husband).

Em1234 · Member

Why doesn't the programme focus more on being happy together not totally detaching from all distractions. How can family be a distraction!

Em1234 · Member

I understand that it will take up a big part of his life, I was open to that, I know that it is 90 meetings in 90 days and that is fine. I am quite use to him not being around. But it's all the other stuff that gets to me. The cult like mentality. Your not one of us. It might not be like that foe all groups but it defiantly is here. I have hear it from many. The fact that he is keeping me at arms length but doing everything he can to 'support' people/girls that he has only known for a few months. I sound so jealous and I probably am, (although I won't admit that to the alcoholic) but why does he get to have this new fabulous life without me. I know that I should be focusing on maki g my own life great without him, but that is not what I want. We made commitments to each other, we have 4 children and you can't just ditch all that because you have a big book and 12 steps!

Em1234 · Member

There don't seem to be many shares about how the alcoholic and their partner work through the issues of alcohol and introducing a new way of living. Which just shows me that this programme is so selfish. And all about finding sobriety and then moving on.

Em1234 · Member

'In both sides of the program, we are encouraged to detach from all distractions including people, places and things and focus on self recovery.'

I just don't get this? Maybe he is not following the programme correctly because he seems very involved in helping other people with their recovery.

Em1234 · Member

@tiredtonight 'I was very resentful of his AA fellowship and tired of doing double duty at our house. I considered his recovery in the AA program to be something on the side and our life to be center stage. I felt righteously indignant and insecure and worried that the AA fellowship had the power to break up my marriage.'

This is exactly how I feel and you broke up with him.

Em1234 · Member

'I believed myself to be that higher power - that I had the answers for him. ' I think this is also true of me. I must work on this.

shrnp · Senior Member

Em1234,

Was your husband spending time with you and the kids while he was drinking? There are times when people think that someone will stop drinking and be and entirely different person and they are not. I am not saying that in a mean sense, just to put it out there. I think it is great you are asking the questions, some people might not do that. It is a good way to learn.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Remember that the rooms of AA are filled with people who have been very sick. Your husband is still very sick, because he is still drinking. Not only still drinking, but still denying, plus cheating or coming close, plus all kinds of other unhealthy habits. Plus staying distant from his family. And he is using AA as a cover for all these bad behaviors. Nobody in early recovery is very stable or sane. But they are working on getting there. It does not sound like your husband is currently working on getting there. He's just found a new set of excuses for his immaturity and chaos. When you look at the people with real long-term recovery through AA (or another formal solid program), they don't behave anything like your husband. They are accountable, they behave responsibly, and they know what responsibility looks like. Believe me, the old-timers are looking at your husband and shaking their heads and hoping for the best for him, but recognizing that he's not living the program.

Truly their crazy behavior can drive us crazy too. The more we dive into our own recovery, the more the dynamic changes, which means everything changes. I hope you'll take good care of yourself.

Em1234 · Member

Thank you '@mattie for your words and helping me to understand. I guess I am in a state of dispear at the moment. And everyone's wise words are helping. Thank you all, I will keep reflecting and feeding back x

Em1234 · Member

I contacted a couples councillor earlier and spoke to her for 10 minutes, even that helped. She said that I sounded very supportive(normally I am, I'm just venting on here). She said that sometimes people in recovery find it hard to face the shame and deal with the bad things they have done so it is easier to push away the ones they have hurt than to face the guilt. I believe one of the steps is to make a Menes to the people you have hurt. I think the alcoholic struggles with this, he has other mentor Heath problems that he trying to get identified, but they have always been clouded by the alcohol, so it was/is difficult to separate the two. He said he has no remorse for anything he has ever done bad to anyone, but I think that is because he has put a mental block on it, because if he opened the door the amount f guilt would be overwhelming.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Em - Alcoholism is a family disease. The disease reaches well beyond the drinker and makes those who live with or love them sick too. We often are as sick, if not more so than them. They self-medicated - we just went insane watching them do so. We find often that we meddle in their business, enable them and their disease, etc.

Making amends is one of twelve steps. The steps are worked in order. There is no time-frame to complete them, and recovery is a life-long process. I hope you will get to some Al-Anon meetings to get support and help for you....there is help and hope in recovery!

WestMan · Senior Member

(Sorry about lack of paragraphs. Site doesn't seem to like my mobile) Hi Em. You are dealing with a lot right now. I can relate to much of what you said. My AS started going to AA about three months ago. Since then it has been a roller coaster. I too felt confident that she was going to remain sober. She was demonstrating a level of straightforwardness I had not seen before. Unfortunately my spouse also ended up drinking again several times. Prior to that though I was terribly angry. I still am. I didn't quite understand why I suddenly felt so much rage. I still am not quite sure why. I think one reason was even though I didn't realize she was an alcoholic I was still doing a lot of unhealthy things to get along in our relationship. Many went against what I felt was right and moral. I had changed my approach to the whole world in order to dance around my AS' issues. Once she started going to meetings it was like having my blindfold ripped off. I am having to face all the ridiculous habits I've formed over the years in order to deal with the BS. I'm realizing just how much of myself I gave up trying to be in a relationship with her and that it was for nothing. I feel owed, which I know is also a wrong attitude, but there it is. She's also distant and goes to a lot of meetings. I don't trust her anymore and suspect that she is still drinking and hiding it. Maybe doing other things as well. She doesn't seem the type to cheat but it is one of her all-time favorite accusations so who knows. I know that there are a lot of very sick people at AA. I realize there's a risk that she could connect with the wrong person. Thankfully, because of past experiences with other addicts I believe that AA is the BEST chance for her and my family. The people I've seen have the most success were always involved in AA or a 12-step of some sort. As I have faith this program will help her I also know that there are no guarantees. For that reason, and others, I have to start working on myself. I have to get my life back on track. If she comes around then it would be great if we could have a relationship. If she imploded then I'll hopefully be better prepared to handle it and protect our children.

a4l · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Em. I recently left my alcoholic marriage, and only then could I dispassionately read the wives and families section of the big book. It made sense, but for me personally, its too big of an ask. It ain't what I signed up for, nor do I accept that recovery is an excuse to flounder along being selfish but dry. I'm a double in both programmes, and that's how I choose to view my own recovery, and those are the recovery friends I choose. Everyone's different. Alanon helped me to detach, get organised, and really restored if not rebuilt my self respect. The changes happened gradually but undeniably. Today, we are both happily ensconced in separate houses. My life is no longer forced to be subjected to his alcoholism, wet,dry or in between. It is a huge weight off, and it came off a bit at a time, by continuing to show up at alanon. Keep coming back because you are worth it. Take care.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Em - I am so sorry for your pain and what you've discovered. I'm sending you tons of positive thoughts and prayers. My hope is you can find your way to some meetings and consider some support and help for you. My ESH is that AA works for those who want to recover. Al-Anon works also for those who want to recover. Both programs (not just AA) are filled with insane and sick people - keep in mind that healthy, well individuals usually aren't seeking out recovery.

AA saved my life and Al-Anon saved my sanity. Both armed me with compassion for those hurt and suffering because of this disease. Neither are easy and both require complete honesty. They each have a minimum requirement for membership - AA: A desire to stop drinking; Al-Anon - bothered by the drinking of a family member or friend.

It's a choice to recover; it's a choice to not. One's recovery is only as good as one's effort. Keep coming back - you are worth it. There is hope and help in recovery!

Aerin · Senior Member

A41... Starting to agree with you. All I have been through in past 5yrs is damn roller coaster. Drunk, AA, relapse.. back to a meeting... And like the original poster.. I had to deal with the drunk texts to women too (on Facebook) I hear Recovery is a longgg process. I am starting to use Al Anon as tool to rebuild my self esteem from being affected by this insanity. Mattie its true the older members know its not as easy as my abf thinks it is. He still sees a replase as ok as long as he goes to meeting next day. Not sure he gets what "sober" means yet. And Im sooo done focusing on him. It ruins MY life. And that leaves me with a very sad relationship.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Em and keep coming back...I am amazed at your courage to continue to understand when mostly what you are getting is the insanity of this disease. Understand ...insanity is the normal mental condition without the help of a discipline program such as what we have and practice. The suggestion to get and use every bit of information about this disease is the best one I every got and for me that included college. I am formerly a drug abuse and alcoholism therapist after I got into the program and had lots of practice. I am also a double and I was born and raised within the disease of insanity and one of the early understandings I received is Alcoholism affects everyone it comes into contact with. When you see what the chemical does to the brain all thoughts (for me at least) that my alcoholic addict wife and others would be on a rational level went away...it did not happen and it did not happen for me either. Alcohol is a mind and mood altering chemical and on the world-wife level that it exists today more are affected by the chemical than not. The insanity of our disease affects everyone it comes into contact with and without this program rarely is there an escape although there are many here even who have adjusted very very well. Al-Anon has a vast library of literature at reasonable cost for those so inclined to grow. I suggest you look thru the AlAnon.org internet site and get the info. Locally we have many alcoholics who are double winners or hold membership in both programs because both programs are huge on mental, emotional, spiritual and physical health. Please keep coming back to MIP and let us know what you have learned so that we can be helped also. ((((hugs)))) smile

Em1234 · Member

Thank you all so much for your replies once again. It can be very lonely sometimes, as friends and family tend not to understand or judge. I sure a lot of you feel like that. It is good to talk. I went to my alanon meeting last night, and whilst I am feeling very angry at the moment it is probably more anger to the alcoholic not the programme. Whilst I am still finding his way of using the programme confusing. I can see that I have learnt things from alanon, even from the short time I have been going. I know now that I am not alone and that looks of people suffer with this chaos in their lives. I know now that the only way to survive is to do things for me, to improve my life and not focus on every single thing the alcoholic is doing. For me it is the chaotic behaviour that ruins things.

Last night the alcoholic said he is not going back to the meeting and has handed his commitment back(key collecting), he also won't be sharing at a meeting he said he would. He has said that it is because he is starting college in the evenings so won't be able to go but I can't help thinking it is convent because of the relapse on the weekend and me telling him AA is a cult. Or at least the way he is behaving is cult like. I'm not sure if he planstogo to any daytime meetings, Or what he intends to do AA wise. He has totally shut off from me now. He says he doesn't want to bewitch me, but won't move out until he has somewhere substantial to live. He is 'waiting' apparently. We'll I wish he would wait somewhere else. If he doesn't want to be with me then I am not going to be supportive.

I am going to put it down to the insanity of the illness. There is literally no reason that he can come up with that he doesn't want to be with me, I haven't done anything to him, I don't nag, I let him do pretty much whatever he wants, I cook, clean, parent etc... That is why it is so hard for me. If I knew why he hates being around me then at least I could work on that now or for the future, but I have nothing to work with. I am his biggest support. Where where his family and friends when he locked himself up I his workshop and was seeing and hearing things, scared out of his mind, where we're they when he fell in a lake drunk and nearly drowned... The list goes on. They were no where to be seen. No it's all good (or so they think) they are back in his life.

He says he can have a stable life if I'm not there, but alanon teaches that it is not your fault you are powerless of alcohol. So I am feeling confused.

I will check back on with you all later when I have more time to retread all your messages. They are so helpful thank you

Em1234 · Member

Sorry for all the spelling mistakes, the iPad likes to auto correct!

Em1234 · Member

@westman 'I'm realizing just how much of myself I gave up trying to be in a relationship with her and that it was for nothing. I feel owed, which I know is also a wrong attitude'

This is how I am feeling at the moment.

pumkin26 · Veteran Member

Hi Em1234 (((hugs))) to you!

I haven't been in the program long (about 3 months) and still have a very active spouse. My story is very similar to what you are describing, I was where you seem to be months ago. My A has tried meetings, tried IOP (intensive outpatient program), has a counselor and sponsor. But is still not ready to accept the disease and what recovery means. When I read your most recent post this morning it occurred to me how far I've come in a short time period. My share, my story is that my A said all of those things... Wanting to move out and get his own place, that he couldn't stand me (and that's why he drank), etc. I am a good woman/mother, I hold the house down, I take care of our children, I do everything (oh the martyr in me!!) why can't he just appreciate me???? BC the disease always wins. It's not about me. None of it. And everything he said and did was the manipulation to keep me in my enabling role. Manipulation is powerful. Once I dove into Al-Anon and started working on me that manipulation no longer worked, in fact it's pretty much stopped on his end. There are moments, for sure, that he tries... But I dive right back into program and don't engage. He is no longer in the house due to a boundary "I" set. I no longer could live in the insanity. I didn't "kick him out" (as he likes to say to me all the time). I can't force him to find recovery, but I can chose not to have the insanity around myself and our children. He is welcome in our home at any time, but has to be dry. He pushed that boundary a couple times in the beginning, tried to make me say "leave", but now he knows. And when he is around it is peaceful. I don't know what tomorrow brings, but for today I focus on me and leave the insanity alone.

"He says he can have a stable life if I'm not there, but alanon teaches that it is not your fault you are powerless of alcohol. So I am feeling confused."

I read this and I think I've heard this... my A says this and I say ok. We are powerless over the alcohol, so whether he chooses to stay or leave I have no control over the drinking. Me wanting him to stop is just that ME. My A asked me once "do you want me to leave? Just tell me what you want?" and I said "What I WANT is for you to be sober, but I can't control that. It's not about what I want. If I say leave then I'm "kicking you out" If I say stay then I am allowing the insanity. It's not ok to put that on me."

(((hugs))) be easy on you. We are all in this journey together.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

(((EM))) - great that you got to a meeting and are learning how the program works! Practicing what we hear that applies each day is how we move forward. I try real hard to not 'analyze the words' from my qualifiers especially when they are active. It is easier for me to accept that I am powerless over them, their words, the disease and what the disease brings. I also learned in Al-Anon to QTIP - Quit Taking It Personally - even when it feels and sounds very personal.

My best suggestions is to be gentle with you. I could guess and suggest he resents you as mine do me simply because you have interrupted his disease. The pull of the disease and the obsession to self-medicate or be/stay numb is very strong, and when there is a caring person stepping in....it's a hard spot to be in.

I am sending you positive energy, thoughts and prayers - it does get better as you work recovery for you. (((Hugs)))

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Em1234 wrote:
He says he doesn't want to bewitch me, but won't move out until he has somewhere substantial to live. He is 'waiting' apparently. We'll I wish he would wait somewhere else. If he doesn't want to be with me then I am not going to be supportive.

... I am going to put it down to the insanity of the illness. There is literally no reason that he can come up with that he doesn't want to be with me, I haven't done anything to him, I don't nag, I let him do pretty much whatever he wants, I cook, clean, parent etc...
He says he can have a stable life if I'm not there, but alanon teaches that it is not your fault you are powerless of alcohol. So I am feeling confused.

Hi Em,

Your alcoholic husband seems to be getting pretty much everything he needs, so I would expect wait time to be forever. You are cooking for him, raising the kids, cleaning etc. Combined with the fact that he is texting others for snogs, he is getting everything he feels he needs, so why change?

In general, people don't change unless the pain of changing becomes less than the change of staying the way they are. The only reason my wife changed is because she had two DUIs, and faced jail time and felony charges. There was nothing I could do to make her change. Well, there was, but I wasn't willing to do it. I could have made it impossible to see our son without her getting sober. Not being able to watch our son grow up was her biggest fear, and kept her out of jail once she understood that I even though I wouldn't take him away, the law would.

In Alanon we say that nothing changes if nothing changes. If he's not going to change, but you want change, you will have to be the one to do it.

Such excellent questions and responses, thanks for sharing with us EM!

Kenny

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

Em,
I could have written all that you wrote.

He got into AA in 2000 and it was all secret, secret, secret. We would be on the street and he would meet someone from his meetings and he would totally ignore the fact that I was standing there. (Finally I learned to keep on walking and let him stand there... and then run to catch up with me). He would get emails from ladies from his meetings telling him what a wonderful share he said at the meeting and how they enjoyed when he spoke because it spoke "to their heart"..... and I saw it as just so much bar talk. He ignored his wonderful 4 kids and let me raise them (which was actually a good thing and as the kids grew older they figured him out).

He is still in AA and we are both retired. We travel a lot and we travel with his sponsor and his wife. I learned that his sponsor also has many anti-family beliefs and that just fed into what my spouse wanted to hear. I don't agree but I keep my mouth shut in the interest of happiness.

That gets me to the point of all this..... You have to keep the focus of your life on you and your kids. If you are really, really angry you might consider some wise works from somebody else (I don't remember who), but it says that "the best revenge is a life well lived." Be happy in spite of him. Make him jealous that you have a wonderful life and your kids love you. You don't have to support him or worry about him or even think about him. Detach.

Take care of yourself.

Em1234 · Member

My worst fears have always been him not wanting to be with me. Which seems to be happening. And second to that, him manipulating the children and turning them against me. Alcoholics are so manipulative, he has said things like when they are 13 they can choose who they want to live with. And even though I think the children know and dislike some of the bad behaviours he has, like aggression etc.. He would be able to convince them as he is the fun dad and I am the boring responsible mother (the one who has actually been there and brought them up, while he has been too busy going on 3 day sessions). They would probably be fearful of his reaction if they said no they didn't want to live with him.

So @maryjane, I'm worried and scared that even though the children have or will 'figure him out' he will still manipulate them to get what he wants. That is probably one of the main reasons I have put up with the alcoholism for so long. I do still love him like crazy, but he has so many different personalities, and I have been hoping that the good one will concur. The one that treats us well, says nice things and means them, works hard and provides, wants to live life to the fullest as a family. But I guess that's what we all want here.

I am going to really focus on 'be happy in spite of him'. That is what I have been trying to do, but when I saw the messages my whole world just came tumbling down again and put me on such a negative spiral. I often try to block feelings out or pretend bad things aren't happening, which do often work for me, but when it is black and white in front of you it is hard to ignore.

I feel like even if I go get my own life, which I am starting to do, his own new life will be better. That's the way he makes me feel, even when he is not trying to. He is a very fun person, even without the alcohol. He makes friends quickly etc... It makes me sad that he doesn't want me to be in his life. I used to be fun (I think). But I think the years of chaos and having to be the responsible one have slightly taken that way. Yes we probably have grown apart abit because of this, bit we could grow back together. I wish he could see that although I have played my role of the victim in this and let him control me this whole time, he also has a part to play in why my self asteem is so low etc..

Em1234 · Member

I will keep checking back in and rereading, I'm going to get some sleep now. The alcoholic is sharing tonight at an AA meeting. I am very curious of how that is going to go, as he relapsed a few days ago. I am not going to ask him though, if he wants to share it with me then I guess he will.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs Em,

I hope you get some good sleep it helps a great deal to see things with better clarity.

Your share brings back some memories for me .. LOL .. oi .. now my XAH professes to be sober however hasn't followed through on that part of the deal .. LOL. He did move on with his life 5 days after our divorced was signed for the second time .. that's a story in itself .. AND he tried to play the kids against each other as well as me .. let me tell you how that worked out .. it didn't .. my kids were 7/12 respectively when we split and 9/15 when he married. Our divorce took 3 years I know the math looks weird however it works out based upon birthdays .. lol. Anyway, .. kids want stability .. yes he can be the fun dad .. however even that comes with responsibility and that is overwhelming for any parent let alone one who is dealing with coming out of an altered state of mind. My X couldn't keep the kids for more than 2 hour blocks until he got married and then it was 4 hour blocks after.

His attorney in front of myself and my attorney basically called him a child support parent and he needed to butt out of things I was doing for the kids. I had to laugh about that one to myself of course. His attorney gets it. So hang in there .. I know it's hard.

The good stuff I would have believed the current wife is getting .. I don't know how 50k worth of debt sounds to you however she's more than welcome to it. It really makes me LOL on a LOT of levels. This is what she didn't know about when they married .. NO .. I'm not interested at this point. There's more coming without question and she's completely unaware of it at this point.

Have you asked your A if you can come to a open speaker meeting with him? Sometimes they have them at different meetings in town. They are really good because while I have a difficult time having compassion for my XAH .. I do have compassion for others. So I'm working on things and that's not a bad thing.

There are family events .. not normally monthly .. however they do have things during the summer, new years and so on .. there are conventions I know sig others have attended .. sometimes just opening the dialog is a good thing.

My X couldn't deal with the guilt regarding me and the kids so he needed his feel goods separate from us .. I was suppose to stick around for him to look good .. however he wanted to do what he wanted to do (not AA meetings).

I hope you DO keep coming back because there is a lot of healing on the boards. I have learned to change my prayers from change him .. to bless him and change me.

Big hugs :)

Jayla · Senior Member

(((Em))) I'm so sorry you are dealing with such a painful time right now in your life. I'm also married to an A and although I wish he would want and find sobriety, I fear AA for the exact reasons you are describing. He already meets enough drunk women at his job, he doesn't need drunk women now having an AA-sanctified excuse to get his number and be in contact with him etc. Yes I know it's probably a minority of people who are in AA and are still drinking but it does happen. I just wanted to say as clearly as I can though that he is FULL OF IT when he blames his addiction on you! It IS NOT YOUR FAULT no matter how many times he says it is! He is in complete denial and needs someone to blame to keep his denial going so he can keep drinking. But we didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it! I agree with what Mattie said that he is not actually in AA to get sober but is using it as a new cover for all the things he wants to do. I also relate to you saying he gets to leave and have this fun life while you have all the responsibilities. That's how it would be for my A to if I kick him out. He'll go live with friends and party 24/7 while I would be left with financial problems and 3 small kids to raise. I'm just trying to start living the life I want for me and my kids and he can be there or not. I hope you are able to do some things for you and your kids that you want to do. Hugs!

Faith101 · Newbie

My experience with my recovering alcoholic husband, is the same that it seems every other woman is experiencing. I have attended Al-Anon meetings, I have tried to be understanding and supportive. But, I too still after 16 years of him being in recovery and attending AA mtgs religiously.... I am jealous, I am sad and tired of what I feel that I have to put up with on a weekly basis. My husband says I don't trust him and I know I treat the situation as such. I traveled for my job recently and found that my husband had been texting an AA woman from one of his meetings had her come to the house, so he could teach her how to carve and while she was there she helped him with his accounting program.....etc. He wasn't going to say anything about this to me... I just happened to see some texts on his phone that he had left open on his desk. I confronted him and he said it isn't what I think it is. None the less, it made me very uncomfortable. I recently was at his anniversary meeting and a woman stood up to share and made the comment, "I have a lot I could tell about Fred" but that's for another time. Knowing that his wife was sitting right there. So, you see.... things like this have been going on for years with him. The feeling of not being able to fit into his world. The anxiety of not knowing what he is doing and sharing in the presence of his "friends" in AA. I feel like, even though he tells me he has been and always will be faithful, that his intimacy and close relationships reside with his AA friends. I have always felt like the outsider looking in and I don't think it is ever going to change. When I try to talk to him about how all of this makes me feel.... He tells me that those are my feelings and there is nothing he can do about it. Proceeds to walk out the door with me standing there feeling empty, at a lose for how to fix things between us. As long as I am being a good wife, not saying anything or y

I looked so forward to my husband to stop drinking so we could build a good relationship. It hasn't happened and I don't think it ever will. I feel like he is brain washed and is incapable of thinking beyond Bill W. and his teachings. He doesn't know how to feel and doesn't have the desire to learn and grow in an intimate relationship. He has learned to be closed, unfeeling and knows the big book front and back. He can preach it well..... I'm only sorry that the men that he sponsors, don't have a chance of learning what they need to do for their families after they get sober. Oh wait..... that's because they are taught..... "Your Sobriety Comes First." As I was told by his counselor while in recovery.... "You will never be his priority." and.... I nor our relationship has been and never will be.

mamalioness · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi EM...I did what a41 did...I left my alcoholic marriage because it was too high maintenance, and I didn't sign up for it either....I had given him a ultimatum....recovery for both of us or you are GONE....pack your bags, dude and LEAVE...he chose to leave.....I got into Al-anon shortly after the breakup and I saw that this program is for ME...to find ME...to focus on what I can change and that is ME.....Al-anon helped me to "unhook" from the sibling alcoholics and druggies in my life, how not to be "gamed by them" and manipulated by them...I can love them with compassion, but keep my boundaries and take care of me....this took time but I did it......As to your situation?? a LOT of alcoholics dedicate themselves to getting sober and staying that way...MANY of them do not use the program as a "cover up" for screw ups and fraternizing with other women...NO!!! they work their A$$es off to stay sober....Your husband is "gaming" the program and is clearly not ready to surrender to any higher power and the program to get sober and stay sober....it happens...but Al-anon will help YOU keep the focus on YOU...whether you cut him loose or not, is up to you and you will decide when you have had enough recovery under your belt so as to make sound decisions....texting other girls is a bad sign...usually , not always, but many times it leads to sexting and actual physical contact.....I , myself, that would be the deal breaker for me, but to each his own...All I know is that you need to focus on YOU and re-claim YOU and live YOUR life as happy, joyous and free because you are focusing on you and letting him to his own devices...you can't change him, but you can change you......You got great feedback here so I'll end because I can't add anything to the great support you got her.....try and find a face to face Al-anon meet and hang with the oldies and learn....work the steps with a sponsor so you can rebuild your life into the one you deserve.......IN SUPPORT

-- Edited by mamalioness on Saturday 5th of August 2017 12:38:44 AM

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

((((Em))))) Totally relate! I've come to learn that my exAH needed AA as his first priority for survival. In his effort for recovery, like many, his mentality was that of a 9 year old. Living from moment to moment was all he could handle. It hurt so much that he was still not present for the marriage. This is a good time to work Alanon with a sponsor for a strong program for your own self-healing and take each day that comes one at a time.

rocky1962 · Newbie

I wish I could offer good news, but alas I can't. My husband of 25 years just celebrated 7 years sober. Hooray for him! But the toll it has taken on our marriage is almost (not quite) as bad as his drinking did. He gets all of his emotional intimacy from his AA buddies...and I am essentially a roommate. I still love him, and will stay with him, but AA has become his emotional partner, replacing me.

We have figured it out...I have outside relationships and he has his 10 meetings a week, on top of half a dozen sponcees and uncountable hours on the phone with other AA members.

But if I could go back 25 years and change things, I would walk out of that restaurant without saying hello.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene