I really feel for your pain and the hardship it is causing on you and your children.

I have been thinking about this alot... guilt.  As I am learning of the steps and techniques offered by AA and Al-Anon, there is a lot of reading between the lines to do, to deal with deep seated guilt.  It is very possible that what he is saying he really does feel and believe.  That he is basically undeserving to stay.

My family is everything to me.  (I'm learning that taking it to the limit is not healthy)  I grew up in a rural area and most of my free time growing up was around my extended family.  If I came to the realization that I had done everything possible to make their lives miserable, I'm not sure what punishment that would require of me without help.

Guilt is why I am here.  Guilt over failing my wife - by not making her happy enough to not drink herself to sleep every night.

I think you have given him something good to think about when you said "...your ruining my life now by leaving. "

IF my wife ever stops drinking she will need some real help in this area.  Professional help!  Whenever she does take responsability for anything she has done, she goes way overboard punishing herself for it.  It is a self-esteem issue for her.

Stay strong, and try to stay positive with the kiddo's.  I didn't have much growing up, and barely noticed that.  I was surrounded by a loving family. 

You are doing a great job IMHO.

sdisnie wrote:

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I finally talked to my AH after almost 5 weeks.  It was really weird.  I remained calm talking to him.  We talked for about an hour, but it just went in circles.  I just have questions and I kept asking them, I can't help myself.  I want to know WHY he left me and the kids, why he has chose to stay in another state and not come home.  He said the same things he said a month and a half ago: He says he's sorry he ruined our marriage and my life.  I said your ruining my life now by leaving.  He says he can't be with me because he can't live with the guilt of his lying, scheming and cheating.  This stuff in his head is what leads him back to drinking.  I'm sorry, but I just don't get that.  Why would you leave someone because you can't deal with the fact of what you've done to them.  If I got over it, why couldn't he?  It's like he just wants to dwell in the past and be miserable about it or something?  It all doesn't make sense to me, I really feel there has got to be more to it, but he says there's not.

Why.... we always want to know why.  What I did was start learning as much as I could about this disease and how it can affect the alcoholic.  Something that I learned is even after they quit drinking, it takes a good year (or more) for their brain to dry out.  Now how can you expect a person to be able to think clearly when their brain is still under the influence?  Recovery takes time!!  Simply putting the bottle/can down is not the cure-all.  They have to relearn so much, they have to begin to grow emotionally/mentally again.  They are stuck at the maturity level of where they were when they first began drinking, and until they quit drinking and find recovery, that is where their maturity level is at.  Once they quit drinking, they can grow again in maturity if they work at it.  I'm 44, in Al-Anon recovery 28 months and just now seeing how much of my past affects how I think and act.  I'm having to look at this past of mine and relearn new ways of thinking about it, looking at what MY part in it was, learning to forgive myself for what I need to forgive and acknowledging what wasn't my part and letting it go.  This doesn't happen overnight... it's a long process.  I find myself slipping back into old habits (thinking processes) often - I have to catch myself and change my thinking around.  One of my old habits is getting upset when others are not doing what they should, I begin to nag at them or nag at my husband about it.  It does not help for anyone to say to me "you are nagging again, why can't you just cut that out and get over it."  I hear something like that and it just pisses me off more - I am aware now when I'm stuck in this old habit and it is up to ME to get myself out of it.  Having my bad habits/old thinking thrown in my face constantly doesn't help me.  Encouraging words when I am NOT acting that way does help.

 Baseball season is starting for the kids, he and I used to love these times, we were at every single one of the kids games, and I can't believe that he can really just let all that go and live in another state and miss out on all these activities that we all enjoyed as a family.  In my mind I think maybe he's began a sort of mid life crisis and doesn't want to be tied down to a family anymore?  That makes sense. Apparently he was annoyed and told my friend I contradicted everything he said and felt I was telling him he was doing his recovery wrong.  I didn't intentionally say that.  I only told him what I've learned which is this:  AA says you shouldn't make any life altering changes in the first year of sobriety, (he's done that, MAJOR) Having the support of your family and loved ones is important in your recovery (he has none of that at all, he's surrounded by strangers he's met in a new state) He says his sponser says he has done the right thing.  What the hell kind of sponser says leaving your wife and kids is the right thing!?!?  Someone has the wrong impression here or something.  What works for one person doesn't work for everyone.

Are you contradicting everything he says?  If he says "I feel..." do you respond with reasons why he should not feel that way, or do you acknowledge he has the right to feel how he feels?  Feelings may not be facts, but feelings are valid.  Do you refuse to accept how he feels because it isn't what you want him to feel?  New sobriety is tough.  Every day they struggle against the compulsion to go drink.  Add to that the fact that they are beginning to feel/think and they have no idea what to do with those emotions because what they used to do (drink to drown them out) they can no longer do.  If we (their family/loved ones) are pushing them to "just be normal now"... what kind of support is that really?  You want him home doing the normal things.. ball games, etc.  Is he able to handle that right now?  You want that to work for him, but can it at this point in time in his recovery?  Could that be why he isn't home yet?  Are you willing to allow him to work his own recovery however he NEEDS to work it, or are you trying to control/direct his recovery with how YOU want it to/think it should be??

My AH says in our 16 years together we grew up as one person together and not as individuals, well part of that is true, and that is what marriage is about.  But we were individuals to, he had his friends and interests and I had mine.  I swear, he has gotten the wrong idea from his little "CULT" he's gotten into down in Arizona.

...grew up as one person together and not as individuals... well that sounds like maybe he feels he doesn't have his own identity as an individual.  And if so, that is something he'll need to work on himself.  And I really have to disagree about that being what marriage is about.  It's not 2 halves joining to make a whole, it is 2 wholes coming together to share with one another.  I heard a nice illustration about this a while back.  Someone likened marriage to having 3 acres of land.  The husband had one acre, the wife had one acre, and the 3rd acre they worked together.  If you are "joined at the hip" in your marriage, how do you ever get to work on  your own acre by yourself?  Also, we are all individuals, we all grow at our own pace.  I can see where I might be more advanced than my husband in some areas, and where he might be more advanced in others.  We constantly change too as we grow.  There will always be adjustments in a relationship due to this growth.  And yes, it can be pretty hard to be on the side where you are waiting for the other person to "catch up" - but even then, maybe being in that position helps you to learn even more.  I would ask, are you so angry about how he "feels" about your 16 years together that you are closing your mind/heart to his feelings and casting blame at an outside thing (the "Cult"), rather than simply hearing him out, acknowledging you hear how he feels, and allowing him the time to work on changing those feelings? 

My kids are in desperate need of shoes, and my middle son is down to two pairs of pants, but he's out there just spending and living without a care in the world.  Will he ever wake up from this??

He can "wake up" if he continues to really work at his recovery.  Meanwhile, what are you doing for YOU and for your children?  Working our own program is so important.  We need to change too.  Anger/resentment can only hurt us.  If you are short on funds to care for the children, have you considered going and applying for state aid?  That is what it is there for.  You can do your part in making sure the children are cared for.  The state will provide what he should be providing for his children and the state will also go after him to repay them for that.  That is one way of making sure his part of the obligation is met.  Single mothers do not have to choose to be "the victim".  They can choose to ask for help from state programs that are there for just that reason, who can enforce these things and help us and our children be able to live decently.  Or you can choose to work 2 jobs and support the children on your own.  You have options/choices.  When my 2nd husband abandoned me and my 4 children, I had nothing, no money, no job, high school education.  I went to welfare (feeling embarassed, shamed, etc.), I went to the required classes, I did what I had to do in order for my children and I to be okay.  I learned I could request job training/college and I did so, insisting upon it.  I got my AA degree in Business at a community college and worked part time in one of the college offices.  With that degree I was able to get a decent paying job.  We went years without income from my ex, but I had the check from welfare, and they have since attached his wages and been repaid what they paid out to me, and I still have child support coming in as I took the steps to apply for the state to collect that from him for me.  I am not a victim.  I stood up for myself and my kids.  Ever since then I have always encouraged every woman (and man) to know her/his rights, to educate themselves, to use whatever resources are available so she/he can be self-supporting in the end.  Whether married or single, we all should be self-supporting or have the ability to be so.  We don't have to be victims.  Lots of support is available, and add in the support of Al-Anon, wow! life CAN be good!!! 

Whatever you choose to do, know that we are here to talk things thru with you, to reason things out, to support and love you.  Sometimes when we are right there in the midst of crisis we can't see clearly, thats why talking with others and hearing different perspectives is so helpful.  We can choose what will work for us in what others have said, and leave alone what won't work for us...thats what the phrase "take what you like and leave the rest" is all about.  Take care of YOU first and foremost!  Lots of love to you.

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(((((Shanda)))))))))

There is no why. I know you want answers, I would too. But the fact is that you probably couldn't believe what he says anyway.

He doesn't have the answers. I have a lot of issues with rehabs myself. They take a selfish person and tell them to be concerned with only themsleves. Pretty horrible thinking for a person with responsibilities. They take what they hear and twist it to their best interests.

When I was in a similar situation, my father made a comment that I still can't get out of my head.  When the rehab told me that my husband should not worry about working, that the children where my responsibility and that all he should do was worry about himslef and his recovery. I was furiouse. That is fine advice if the person has no responsibilty, but a husband and father has things he needs to do. They kept telling me he can't.  Rehabs focus on the A, helping them get and stay sober, no matter what the cost. It does not matter who gets hurt in the process. They have to focus on only themsleves. Accountability goes out the window, until if ever they are ready to embrace the steps, and really work at recovery.

My Dad said, what the h*ll is the point of him being sober if he cannot work, accept responsibility for his children and become a usefull member of society. He might as well stay a drunk. I can't argue with that logic.

Don't worry about the why's or how's. Don't concern yourself with his recovery, or his best interests. Do what you have to do, to protect you and your children. Go after everything you are entitled to by law. Get any help you can get.

They are his children too, and someone needs to hold him at least financialy accountable. Find that someone.

He is being selfish and you and the kids did not cause this and should not pay the price.

               Love jeannie