The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
SORRY IT IS LONG, BUT PLEASE BEAR WITH ME, IF YOU CAN.
It's been a long time since I've been here. Not much has changed, except that I went for my own counselling at the Addictions center and some Al Anon meetings. It was suggested to me by several different counselors that I should go into a shelter, due to the continued and at times, extreme verbal and emotional abuse, but I didn't. I thought that if he wasn't physically harming me, I couldn't justify that. I was also afraid of leaving him - the anger and the smear campaign that would follow and chose what I thought was the 'simpler' route. I learned how to find my own projects and happiness within the alcoholic realm. I found a way to learn how to enjoy my own life. I've been on disability for 8 years now, and really don't have much else, so that plays into the decision too.
He used to just drink in the evenings. He's a hard drinker. He's tried to quit a few times and with the help of a pill to sleep, he actually did it for a month. Wasn't long enough for things to start to get better, but it could have been. It will be 20 years this year, that we've been together. I've found a strange way to actually get used to it, and as I said - I have my projects.
His (adult) kids now want to do an intervention. When he calls them he's always drunk and it has gotten worse with some new job stress, so now it is ALL weekend long as well, and even I know it's spiraling. Evenings and weekends - straight vodka til he passes out. He's always worked though. His job keeps him from falling over the edge and JUSTIFIES his RIGHT to drink.
So - an intervention - like on the TV show, with the hard line of saying that IF you don't get help ... we won't be in your lives - EVEN THOUGH we all read an article together on how that doesn't work. That them hanging up on him when he calls drunk, just makes him want to drink more to fill the empty hole. That the best thing for the alcoholic to WANT to quit is to love them unconditionally. I've distanced myself with my projects too and am available for LISTENING for several hours every night, until I can't handle it anymore. I've been through the ringer. I can't sugar coat it. I don't even know why I'm still here, but I guess I carved myself out an existence and learned how to endure the extreme outbursts and horrible verbal abuse (that isn't every day), along with some physical violence, but nothing that really caused injuries - like shoving me or slamming the computer lid on my fingers, or damaging doors. Oh - I could go on and on, but nothing anyone else hasn't already heard. I should have left long ago, but there was always something, financial or otherwise, that kept me in this 'lovely prison' (as someone once called it).
HERE'S THE PROBLEM - I understand that if there's an Intervention and he decides to go into Rehab, I am to be supportive. I would be here on weekends as part of his program, so that he can come home and learn what his triggers are. I'M SUPPOSED TO FALL IN LOVE AGAIN - whatever. I'm NOT in love. I've been waiting for a perfect opportunity to get out of this mess, and this seems as perfect as I'll ever get. I can't forgive the horrendous things that have gone on. I'm used to him. We 'get' each other, we're used to one another, and we have been companions. We're complete opposites, and somehow complete one another. Not in a romantic way - but rather I do everything he can't and he does everything I can't. The twain doesn't really ever meet. We really have little in common.
On several occasions, when he's been drunk, he's told me that if he ever gets clean - we'd be over. I know and understand that thinking because I am the enabler and I'd have to go - along with the alcohol. I too, have thought the same and have had one foot in the door and one out, during this whole relationship.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY his daughters feel that I will be an important part of this process. I mean - I DO understand, but I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN DO IT. (I tried to be there for them growing up, but they all just resent me anyway for enabling - and in fact I overheard his daughter talking to him and she referred to me as a 'THING'). I don't see why I owe them ANYTHING! How can I be a part of this, in a loving way, when I really don't feel loving at all? This is going to disrupt everything that I've been working on. We'll lose the house, since we live paycheck to paycheck and drinking has been EXPENSIVE. WE CAN'T AFFORD for him to be off for several months in rehab. I don't want to tell his daughters that, because I'M SO DONE - that I really want this to happen, although I don't want to end up in bankruptcy. I really want him to agree to get help so he can be there for his children and grandchildren. BUT I'D RATHER LEAVE NOW. I can't lie in this process and tell him that I won't be there for him if he doesn't do the program BECAUSE THAT WILL BE LIKE PROMISING I WILL BE HERE IF HE DOES!!! Am I supposed to pretend, until he's well?
As much as I'd like to see him sober and enjoying his life, I seriously don't want it to be with ME. I've seen evil that I will never be able to erase from my mind - whether he's drunk or sober. But even the thought of all this is stressing me out, because I don't have extra money to get the house ready to sell. Beautiful houses take up to a year to sell where I live, so we can only take a loss, which I can ill afford on my disability. I'm not worried about myself so much, but I'm worried about the EXTRA STRESS of going through this whole thing and the aftermath. I don't want to BLOCK IT from happening either, because I know something has to give. I know I've been living in an 'insane' world for a long time and I understand that it's time for it to be over. I just don't know how I'll get through it when my intentions aren't in the RIGHT place. I believe I'm supposed to care in order for this to work, but I just don't think I do ...
And - he's never gotten help before in his life, other than to tell his doctor that he wanted to quit drinking, but had problems sleeping, so the doctor gave him a pill. That's not really HELP. I've told his girls that he may not agree to this, because he's waiting for a better job to come through at his work and this might throw that off, but they don't care and feel I'm just making excuses for him, so I said okay then - let's go for it. There is a good chance he WON'T agree. I've had him at the door twice for help, and when a bed became available, there was always an excuse. That's why they're going in with the hard line that they'll have nothing to do with him, and they want me to do it too (like to leave him if he won't quit) and I believe they want me to leave him anyway so it could be a win win for them, because maybe he'd stop drinking if his enabler left anyway. I can do that. I can walk away, and leave him to tidy up the whole mess and try to fix up the house and sell it himself and take over all the things I've always felt responsible for. I'm just confused about the part where he will get sober and expect me to stay if he goes with the program. He's a nasty 'dry drunk' too. Just in a different way. YES - I AM CONFUSED and I really need some help and guidance with this.
Again, sorry for it being so long, and if you're still here, thanks for listening. It feels good to get it out there and know that at least I'm understood ...
Hi. I'm not clear as to whether or not you are still attending Al-Anon and counseling sessions at the Addictions Center? If you aren't doing that, I hope that you will reconsider and return to the people who can help you most in this circumstance?
On the subject of being there if he should begin recovery? If you don't want to do that, you don't. He can choose sobriety or not. He can choose it whether or not you are in his life. He can choose to continue sobriety/recovery without you in his life, too.
No, interventions seldom work and I can understand the family wanting to try one last ditch effort to save him. They can do that with or without you. Sometimes, parents are more willing to hear their kids than their partners?
The most important person to me is you. You're the one who wants to make changes and you're the one who has had enough. I can certainly understand from what you've said here why you are thinking and feeling the way that you do. Al-Anon meetings, a sponsor and the addictions counselor can all help you make those changes that today you don't think you have the energy to make but want to make. How and when you make those changes are up to your HP and you. The help of the fellowship and outside witnesses to what you are going through will be able to support you as you work the program one day at a time.
I want to add that slamming something down on your fingers and the rest of what you said made me sick to my stomach. I'm not sure what your disability might be, but moving away from that violent man can very well help you recover some of your power and your ability to provide for yourself financially?
-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 29th of January 2015 01:53:13 PM
I want to add that my x was also violent. I did not return the violence as some partners or spouses might, but I absorbed it and permitted it. By doing that, I did a double whammy on myself. I enabled his violent behavior by staying in the relationship and letting him do it. When I'd had enough, I'd had enough. Nothing stopped me in following the clear guidance I received from my HP and acting on it. If you are willing to make changes, your HP will supply the guidance and the power to do it.
I agree with grateful...reading your post made ME cringe too, as a survivor of child abuse and domestic violence with my first EX alcoholic, I can relate to you have HAD ENOUGH
let his kids deal with him if that is what they want......so saddened to hear they refer to you as "the thing" that also made me kinda ill where i had to digest your post b/4 I could answer it
stuff like this makes me sad and sick to hear one human being treating another like that...sounds like his entire family are folks you don't want to be around
if you don't want to go to intervention, then DONT....YOU are the most important one here in my opinion....You need you....to heck with what they or him want....its time to take care of YOU....and i am so glad u reached out to us here on the board....we all have been there...done that or close enough
i would get into as many fac2fac alanon meetings as i can b/c the changes coming up, you're gonna need all the support you can get your hands on.....others who have been there
also i would find the nearest domestic violence shelter and contact them and get their take on what you can do to take care of you....
please keep coming back....you don't have to live like this....there always is a way when we work the program, get pointers from others, rely on our higher power within, and reach out for help......i would contact the shelter for pointers while going to alanon meets...........leave him to his own devices and to his rude family.....
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Dear had enuff -- I love your logon name and by reading your posting, I can certainly understand why you have "had enough".
I am sorry to read that the you are living in such a difficult situation and support the idea that you must seek recovery for yourself before you ever consider supporting your partner's recovery.
it is important to remember that alcoholism is a chronic, progressive, fatal disease over which we are powerless. Intervention or not, you being at the intervention or not, will have very little to no affect on his recovery.
I urge you to seek out Al-Anon face-to-face meetings for yourself once again and begin your own journey to recovery. This is a simple program for complicated people that you are not alone
I could have written much of what you say here. I dont know where to begin with sharing my own esh. I can tell you that i once was you but not anymore. Im happy, i dont let anyone manipulate me, im independant, i dont play the martyr, poor mes, the alcoholics power is gone, im in my own power and im so much better.
You said you were here before so im assuming you have heard of alanon and know there are meetings. You have probably heard it before but have chosen not to do anything, which is fine, maybe you werent ready, maybe you are now. All i know for sure is if you dont make changes now then you can write this all out again and add a bit more of the hard stuff because theres n owhere to go but worse if you dont get into recovery for yourself.
You have got choices, despite any reasons you may think up, go to meetings, get better, make the changes that make life better or wait around just in case he stops drinking.
Thanks grateful2be! It has been my HP that is actually keeping me from trying to block this from happening, even though I have no idea how we'd afford it and could be in trouble. I've been 'wishing' for something to change for a very long time and I think I've been heard. Now I just don't know how I'm going to deal with it. I may see the addictions counselor again, if I still can't figure out how to deal with this. I guess you've REALLY had enough, when you're able to say that you don't know what you're going to do, but you're 'almost' willing to accept that you can't control how it will go. It's scary for me, and I'm not sure if I'll have the energy I need to go through the process, but I think he just may decide to get help, if he believes that somehow I'll take care of everything while he is gone and make sure we don't lose our house (which I can't promise). He's never helped with the finances, and I've had to make all the major decisions on everything. I've been told that that is very abusive in itself. Times we haven't had money for alcohol - he's told me to 'find some' (borrow or whatever) and I've always figured out a way.
Slamming the computer top down on my fingers was not as bad as one of his rages when he called my deceased mother a slut and a dumb c*nt. She was valedictorian of her class and graduated University with honors. He is a blue color worker with barely any formal education - and not that that's what makes or breaks a person, but it's things like that feel so unforgivable.
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".
It's the same working with an addict. You can do the intervention but if he's not ready for treatment it won't work. As much as we'd all like to be able to cure our A's, we can't. The addict has to want a better life and until that day comes, they'll be an addict drinking or sober. There are reasons why people turn to chemicals to relieve the perceived chaos in their lives. We can't fix that for them, only therapy and counseling and sobriety can help that addict. Even then, if the addict isn't willing to face their demon's, they'll go back to whatever form of self-medication makes them forget about their problems.
Al Anon is about you, the family member of the addict. You need to think about what is best for you and what you want out of this relationship. You can't save him, you can't cure him, you can't make him stop drinking. Only he can do that. Work on you and let him figure out his own life.
There are hundreds of threads on this board that offer wonderful help. Everyone here is or has been in your shoes in some sense. Keep coming back.
Thanks everyone - I'm crying because it's so heartfelt to have some support. I was going to the addictions counselor that HE was supposed to go see (and didn't), but since it was for families - I took the initiative. I sat in her office and cried the whole time - for EVERY session. I couldn't even stop myself through all the meetings. I felt so stupid, but just to have some who listened and understood, was almost beyond my comprehension. Now I'm doing it again, but normally, I rarely cry. Last time I really did, was when my 16 year old dog died a year ago. I brought her home and put her into the garage (it was cool) until I could face burying her. The next day he sent me out for alcohol, which I didn't want to get, and when I got back he'd dug a whole IN THE GARDEN and thrown her in it. I was so devastated that I took her out and brought her back into the garage. That night I did smudging and lit candles and said my goodbyes. He was horrible to me that whole day and kept yelling at me that I was morbid and sick to do that. She was my baby and I didn't care if he wanted to tell the world that I was morbid (to remove her from her grave that HE put her in while I was gone). These are the things that I can never forgive - whether he sobers up or not.
I will NEVER be able to become a LOVING wife to him again and I know this in my heart. Is it even fair to go along with his daughters through this process when I really want to tell them that I HATE THEM AND THEIR FATHER? I don't really hate though - I just feel so very beaten down. They have pointed out that he will NEED ME to get through the process.
He does not "need" you to get through it. They are misinformed. It sounds like fear of change is a major thing here. Alanon is my best suggestion for getting through this for you.
Cryings good, its healing. Have you tried alanon meetings, a councellor sounds like it will help but most of us here attend alanon meetings in our communities. Go to the alanon website and type in your town and you will get a list of meetings. They are free and filled with people who know exactly what your going through, exactly how you feel and you will get your own program of recovery, just for you. It takes committment, you will learna brand new way to think and everyhting just gets better and better, anyone here who goes to meetings will tell you that.
Also, he needs you to help him keep the drinking going. Its you that needs you to help yourself. Living with an alcoholic is too much for most people. The daughters will have their own motives for keeping you attached to him and his choices to drink.
If you were my daughter, I wouldn't care what a sick man says about me. I would care about you. We can't make you go to Al-Anon or to leave this relationship or to find an addictions specialist that is right for you and only about you. We can care about you, we can listen, we can share our e/s/h, and we can believe in you and your ability to make the changes that are right for you now. I am sorry about the loss of your dog. It is obvious to me you have a very tender and kind heart. Al-Anon can help you in so many ways. No woman deserves to be treated in the ways you are being treated. Is it that you hate him and them or is it the way you feel that you hate? Those feelings are there to help you know that you are hurting and you need help from others who won't violate you but will be there with and for you. Some of us weren't ever validated for the good and loving and talented people we were as children. We can't go back and change the past. We can change the present. Al-Anon can help you validate yourself in gentle and loving ways. It can help give you hope and a good future. Keep coming back here, too.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 29th of January 2015 03:09:12 PM
Thanks! I did go to some Al-anon meetings, and they did help a bit, but I wasn't comfortable going through the 'rituals'. I did take from it what I needed and did learn how to detach (not sure with love), but as I said, I found my own things to do and am very happy with them now. I could almost live this way forever, BECAUSE I did get that help. The problem is that I know this isn't fair - to him or his children. Staying with their father and not feeling love toward him anymore.
I want to write to them and tell them some truths about this whole thing. I want to tell them that I know they resent me and that I'm better off to leave and quit enabling him (which as I said - is what I believe they want anyway), and that I'm done. I want to tell them that I could save them a lot of trouble with an intervention and maybe they'll have their Dad back. Once I realized that they didn't want me with their father anymore, that sealed the deal for me. I wasn't perfect, but I went above and beyond to try to be a good Step-mom. Seems none of it mattered and I'm over that part now. Now it's just a matter of putting it into play and I have no IDEA where to start. He'd be furious and I'm afraid of what he'd try to do to sabotage me if I decided to leave like that. It would be okay for him to leave me, but it would not be okay for me to leave him. He's the BOSS!
I want to write to them and tell them some truths about this whole thing. I want to tell them that I know they resent me and that I'm better off to leave and quit enabling him (which as I said - is what I believe they want anyway), and that I'm done. I want to tell them that I could save them a lot of trouble with an intervention and maybe they'll have their Dad back. Once I realized that they didn't want me with their father anymore, that sealed the deal for me. I wasn't perfect, but I went above and beyond to try to be a good Step-mom. Seems none of it mattered and I'm over that part now.
Why bother writing to these negative/nasty kids??? why put yourself out there for more misery???? they showed you zero respect, even resentment....and I am sure, by reading your post, you did your best.....and you cannot save them from anything....the only one/thing you can save is you.....I would hang with the meetings and share when you feel safe enough....nothing u can say will surprise them,, trust me...we've heard it all.....
I would let this all go....hunker down and make my game plan, do what i gotta do to save/care for me and let all this go b/c you are 100% powerless over anything else.......i woldn't bother with the kids.....they didn't appreciate you....so be it....their loss.......sending you hugs of support
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
He rarely sees them and they rarely talk to him because he always calls when he's drunk and they just hang up on him, which just causes him to call them little Bi*ches. SO - here were are - going to have an intervention, but I'M the one who is supposed to bear the brunt of worrying about finances, dealing with him when he comes home and trying to keep him occupied and happy and not trigger him to drink. I want to ask them what they're going to do, while all this is happening. Just sit and wait for a sober father to appear? I've been through enough, and now it's on me to MAKE THIS HAPPEN!
He'll be furious that he wasn't aware of it, but I'm supposed to keep it a secret until everyone can make it up for the session? I'm supposed to back him as he goes through this process, when I don't know if I can ever find it in my heart to forgive him and go broke in the meantime? These are the issues I feel are facing me now. Even though I'm always trying to do the 'right' thing and say the right things and be the best person I can be, I'm finding it hard not to just tell them to just go do it themselves if they want to and he can go to THEIR place on his weekends off, etc. I'm angry that once again, I'm expected to be perfect in all of this, in order to keep the peace. I just want to tell them where I'm at, and burn the bridge from my side that it seems they've already burned from theirs ...
is there anyone you can reach out to???? We are here, but maybe you need to sit and chat w/someone???? i know meetings will help, but as I had to do, u gotta at least try them for a while b4 you decide that they work for you.....
this program is awesome....it sounds like u are totally focused on him and his kids and not thinking what to do to help you....maybe an abuse shelter can give you direction?????
sending support
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
You are not "supposed" to do anything but what is right for you. It is not your job to keep him occupied or not trigger him. With him being this severe of an alcoholic and for this long, EVERYTHING is a trigger. There is zero need for you to take on anything related to his recovery. Worry about yours. You are describing elements of a toxic codependency. That concerns me for you.... His kids can do whatever they want. You don't need to be a part of it. You admitted you enable him...probably he enables you from growing and changing in healthy ways too. This is about YOU and you getting healthy. He will either drink or not. He will either refuse help or not. He will either cut off his kids or not. The kids will either write you off and hate you or not. All those are things not in your power. Him and his kids do not define you. Not sure what rituals bothered you in alanon, but I truly can't think of any better support for you. Right now you have a bunch of sick untreated alanoners chattering at you along with a sick alcoholic and you are trying to make sense of all of them while you have your own healing to do...it sounds maddening.
There is nothing wrong with letting his kids do whatever "intervention" they want to do without you. Yes, it would be good if you could stop enabling him. That would be good for you and him, but honestly, they don't NEED anything from you, because if he's gonna drink, he can find another enabler other than you just as easy.
I hear a lot of confusion and a lot of frustration and placing what HE might do and what his KIDS want above YOU. I don't think his kids are nasty for wanting a sober dad...I get that. I also understand that you never planned to have the relationship slide into this... Nonetheless, there is healing to do...Healing for you. You need recovery just as much as him and all this attention to him and his kids is taking away from that.
Who expects all this of you? Is it the people outside of you or is there a part of you that expects it of you? Part of my codependency issues were developed in childhood. One of those issues was to expect myself to be more than I could ever be and do more than I could ever do. I realized one day that I was no longer and a child and I was trying to live up to an image that didn't even fit me. I was just an ordinary woman who needed to eat, sleep, breathe air, use the restroom, take myself for walks, and do what was right for me alone. All other adults were responsible for themselves. I didn't need to be perfect. I just needed to take better care of myself one day at a time.
Yes - I can go see the counselor again. I'm just better one to one and I know there is something called Face to Face, but no one mentioned it at the meetings I went to. The counselor was very good and may help give me some direction regarding this issue. I'm very grateful for all who responded to me today. You probably saved me from sending a nasty message to his kids, which is what I don't need to do right now, as much as I'd like to. They barely speak to me, trash me behind my back, and then tell me that they need me for something? I can use up ALL of my energy helping them with this, or as most of you have said, I can start helping myself, instead. They all say 'no more excuses' and one of them said that I was always making excuses for him. Well is it an excuse that if he does this with no pay that my mortgage will go into hock? Is that a good enough excuse? Do they want to help with mortgage payments while their Dad gets better? Yeah, exactly ...
I have come a long way. I have received some help. My biggest issue is that I can't get apart from him. When I mention leaving - he tells me 'GO' but both the vehicles are in his name and he'd call the police if I took one. He tries to sabotage me from leaving and I know that I will have a war on my hands when I do. I don't have the energy for a war. I want him to agree with me that we aren't right for one another and break up peacefully. Why can't we just help one another to move on? I just want it to work out this way ...
I would read and RE read pinkchips post to you....
what he says is spot on.....also I truly believe that peer to peer recovery work in alanon meetings is the best thing....it saved my life....those meetings with others who had walked my walk or a similiar hell, helped me the most......being with healthy, recovering folks, who related to me....could empathize w/me w/out enabling me if i was focusing too much on the abuser and not enough on me.......and having a good sponsor is m "guard rails" when i start to go off track, obsessing about something over which i am powerless, my sponsor, firmly yet lovingly brings me back within where I should be
Again...read these replies to you...You got some GREAT insight and experience from a BUNCH of good alanoners who work their program....I read EACH post to you and I agree with everyone of them......this whole thread of yours should be a good guideline as to where you need to go.....Al-anon.....as i said b4....it truly saved my life....i was a coda...enabler....focused on everyone elses needs , thoughts, but me...I abandoned me in the process of growing up with addicts, marrying addicts....there was no room for ME...
now i make room for me......this community here has the best resources of love, support, experience, wisdom that you can find on a board.....I have been a member here for several years, now, and I was really screwed up when i joined up, but there are folks on this board who didn't give up on me...b/c they knew deep inside i hungered for change, and i was open to new ideas...the ones who stuck by me, I thank God each day for them......this MIP community is my ballast when the winds of life get too harsh and i cannot get ahold of my sponsor...or run to a meeting.......this and the face to face meetings and working with a good sponsor can start you on a healthy, joyous and free life.....JUST saying.....keep coming back
-- Edited by neshema2 on Thursday 29th of January 2015 04:25:12 PM
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I have been reading all posts to your very distressing share HadEnuff. What I am getting is that you need out, you have literally had enough! It doesn't matter anymore that AH continues to drink or stops, and his children are not even an issue at this point. I also am gathering that what is holding you back is that you are worried about your share of the marital assets and that you do not want to be left out in the financial cold! If you begin the legal separation process with an attorney representing you, you will be able to correctly protect your half of all the assets you both own. I realise that every state has it's own interpretation of marital assets, but if you have been married for more than 10 years to this person, it doesn't matter if all the cars are in one partners name, all cars are considered property of the both of you. If you were to start the process of separation to ultimately finalize a divorce, you can, through your legal representation, reserve the right to stay in the home and therefore be able to protect all the assets til they are divided or sold. Forgive me if my post seems fatalistic, I am just reading your share over and over and all I am reading is that you need to get out and not be left out without any funds or car.
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"Forgiveness doesn't excuse bad behavior, but it
does prevent bad behavior from destroying your heart". ~ unknown
Thanks Pinkchip - do you think I should tell them that I am too sick myself to do this with them? That they must work on themselves? They are all in their late 20's early 30's and they don't know that this illness has to do with them too. All they know if they grew up with an alcoholic Dad and they want him to be healthy and there to walk them down the aisle and be there for them and his grandkids. They all turned out EXACTLY the way he ISN'T. All have great careers and have always been hard workers (well that part they DID get from him), but they're not addicts. I know they don't respect me, because they saw what I put up with and still remained.
All I know is that I've worked on ME and I'm doing things for myself, and when I mean enabling, I mean remaining in the relationship. I don't condone what he's doing. I also don't bother to try to stop him, because I figure pouring his alcohol down the drain and things like that just cost us MORE money, and would cause a fight. That - to me, is enabling. He knows I've been unhappy for a long time, but he just needs me here to listen to him when he drinks, which I do a little bit, but then I tell him when I've had enough. I have my OWN room, and I HATE being intimate with someone who has been so nasty, pushy, demanding and needy.
I've learned to be happy in my own little world, but as I said, I know it's not fair when I don't feel much anymore. I really think it's only fair to all involved to remove myself from the situation. And then I come to the part about the fight. It will be 20 years this year, but we are NOT married. We both had previous marriages and I thought this was going to end a long time ago, so I didn't see the point. Now it's gone into the 'grandfather clause'. I feel as though I'm just riding my time out here ... Starting over, on disability, with not much support, is not the most fun idea for me, but staying under these circumstances is really not either. Nothing is really ... it seems it doesn't really matter now, and I'm not saying that in a depressed way. Just a realistic way.
Thanks Pinkchip - do you think I should tell them that I am too sick myself to do this with them? That they must work on themselves? They are all in their late 20's early 30's and they don't know that this illness has to do with them too. All they know if they grew up with an alcoholic Dad and they want him to be healthy and there to walk them down the aisle and be there for them and his grandkids. They all turned out EXACTLY the way he ISN'T. All have great careers and have always been hard workers (well that part they DID get from him), but they're not addicts. I know they don't respect me, because they saw what I put up with and still remained.
I know u are asking pinkchip, but my take is , what good would it do to justify or argue or defend or explain ANYthing to these kids???? you don't OWE them.....are u expecting them to care??? to be concerned that you are sick or not???? and whether they work on themselves or not, it isn't in your power........I wouldn't bother....I would just say "no i am not getting into this intervention" and leave it at that..........you owe them NO explanation....You owe NOONE any explanation.....its their problem to either get into recovery or not....none of this is in your hands /power.....i would not bother with any communication save for the barest of essentials like when you say "no" to the intervention thing...."NO" is a one word sentence...you have the right to say "no"....and you also have the right to not offer any explanation that may be attacked....so why bother?? why put yourself over the flaming hot stove to get burned again.....you already said they have zero respect for you.....i would accept it and move on.....what they think or don't think is not your problem......you need to focus on you and only you........JUST saying.....
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
It seems as though youve given up and that can be a good thing in a way for us. When i gave up i decided to try to reach out for help. You seem to habe put up walls and have reasons in your head about why alanon meetings are not for you. I understand that. The thought of walking into a room full of strangers and listening to the preamble, you call ritual, i call wisdom. It can be daunting and scary, i dont know anyone who wasnt scared about gojng to ameeting at first. I just got to the stage that the fear of meetings was the least of my fears. I knew i wasnt living right, i was miserable, hopeless, saw no way out. The difference between meetings and just dipping your toe in is huge. At meetings we break the isolation, the loneliness and this helps break all those negative thoughts we have held onto for so long, we get hugs, sounds irrelevant but that physical contact is huge, its like walking into a family who can see into your soul and they still want you there. Then theres all the literature that talks about this disease in a true honest way and helps.
Anyway, of course the choice is yours, im passiknate about alanon, especially meetings, i believe thats where the growth is. I can relate to how you feel and the help is there when your ready to take it.
Thanks too - Debb and Neshema2 :) I've already told them I'd be a part of this. I felt it was my responsibility to show that that I WILL try to help their Dad get healthy. That I have good intentions and that I am partly responsible for the continued alcoholism, so it's MY job to play a major role. It was only afterwards that all of these thoughts started rising to the surface and that this was opening a floodgate of emotions. Planning and tricking him into an intervention (which I hate the thought of). Worrying about the finances IF he does go, and worrying about what will happen with his relationships with them if he doesn't. Worrying about his recovery. Feeling awful about having to coordinate this with them (who likely blame me for most of it). That's why I ended up here. I didn't know what to do with all of this worry and emotions, and one of our vehicles is broken, so it's not like I could run off for counseling. I just felt overwhelmed.
What I'm trying to say is that I feel responsible and THEY feel if I'm staying in this relationship that is IS my responsibility to help them 'get their Dad well'. I can't even imagine how they'd react if I got back to them and tell them that I was opting out. They don't believe they can do it without me.
-- Edited by HadEnuff on Thursday 29th of January 2015 05:45:38 PM
What I'm trying to say is that I feel responsible and THEY feel if I'm staying in this relationship that is IS my responsibility to help them 'get their Dad well'. I can't even imagine how they'd react if I got back to them and tell them that I was opting out. They don't believe they can do it without me. -- Edited by HadEnuff on Thursday 29th of January 2015 05:45:38 PM
OK..u said something in your disease.....has HE let you down??? have his kids let you down???? so you had a change of heart.......sounds to me like you are stuck on focusing on them and not you even tho many of us told you you owe them NOTHING.....Its your choice....I would just say "after thinking about this, I have discovered/decided that going will NOT work for me" and end it.....I note you called meetings "rituals" and you weren't too impressed...how many of them did you try???? I had to kinda search and check out a couple of rooms b4 i found my home, but nevertheless, as el-cee said, I , too, am real passionate about al-anon and the meets, steps, etc.......
so I am going to ask you, in regards to your quote above.....at what point are you going to put your health and welfare first???? we CAN say things out of emotion and we DO have the right to change our minds.....it kinda sounds to me like you are thinking you should go to HIS intervention....HE and his kids are on their own paths and only they can get help or not get help.......I guess you will take care of you, put your needs first when you are tired of people taking advantage of you....I am sure you did your best with this UN doable situation......so when you do cut your losses and get out????? also like Ellen said.....you can get a good attorney, ask around, maybe ask the abuse shelter about good lawyers and you CAN protect your interests.......
-- Edited by neshema2 on Thursday 29th of January 2015 06:13:17 PM
-- Edited by neshema2 on Thursday 29th of January 2015 06:15:40 PM
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Its not your fault. You didnt cause his alcoholism, noone causes anothers alcoholism, you dont have that kind of power. You cant possibly make him pick up a drink and get drunk. No way, hes a grown man, not a baby. You also dont have the power to stop him drinking, your helping is most likely not helping at all. He gets to make his own decisions as to whether he drinks or doesnt or gets into recovery or doesnt, his own thinkjng is in control. Nothing you can do or say can stop him. All of us here and around the world for ever and ever have tried. If there was a way to stop an alcoholic drinking there would be no alcoholics.
Your own distorted thinking keeps you on the merrygoround, going round and round for years, thats what i did. The only changes you can make is for you and your life, noone elses. The only responsibility you have is to yourself. You are worth the time your spending worrying and fretting over others. Im glad your here and reaching out.
the title of your post says "need advice" although it is not alanon to give advice, we do give our suggestions based on our experiences and our strengths and our hope, which we all were blessed w/by working this wonderful program.......
I want to see you have hope and a life, like I now do....
you got good replies....great responses....i do hope you keep coming back....read the posts written by the ones who are progressing and thriving.....They got that way going to the meetings and working the program and being open to help and new ways to do their lives.....I know...I was a mess when i came here....alanon saved my life...I was a total wreck, suicidal, but I was open to try...I was sick and tired of the same ole rounds and rounds of misery......it was hard work but I am worth it.....
You are worth it as much as I am.....I hope soon, you will see that and reach out..open your heart to al-anon and its love!!!
keep coming back....give al-anon a chance
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
No reason you can't let them know you've changed your mind and you wish them well with the intervention with their Dad if you choose. It was not my job to help my husband get into a recovery program and stay in it. That was his job. My job was to get into a recovery program for myself and to make the changes I could make that benefitted me and my children. The more I focused on him, the more fearful I became. The more I focused I was on myself, the more strength and power I felt returning to me. With that renewed focus on myself and my wants and needs and responsibilities - and he wasn't one of my responsibilities - the more I saw ways I could support myself and my children on all levels.
Since you have decided you no longer want to be in this relationship, you don't owe them an explanation. You can simply say you have changed your mind. If they get upset, they do. You don't have to listen if you choose not to listen. Whether you are involved in the intervention or not, nobody is going to be able to help him go to rehab or AA. He decides that on his own or he doesn't. In fact, knowing how oppositional some alcoholics can be from experience, the more people insist, the more they might say they will and then they don't.
This is your life. You get to choose if you want to stay or to go. You don't have to justify any choice you make to anybody no matter how many family members say you do. Sending you lots of encouragement and support as you take a stand for yourself and for what you are truly thinking, feeling and wanting to do and supporting what you truly don't want to do.
No Neshema2 - I DON'T WANT TO BE INVOLVED AT ALL! I feel as though they feel as though if I'm not part of the solution, I'm part of the problem and that I am part of the reason he is sick and that it's my responsibility. They've made suggestions about it in the past too, and not been accepting when I told them I coudn't afford to send him on a program that would cost $15k. Even when I explained to them that I had him at the door of 2 places for help, and he didn't go, they are willing to challenge that THEY will make the difference, when they tell him that they will have nothing to do with him and he will not be a part of their children's lives. They have told me they want me to do the same, as mentioned above. I'm not sure if it's just to get me out of his life or what, but it's pretty risky business for them, I'd say, because he may have another excuse.
The more I read and consider this entire issue, I believe that this "intervention " will not come about. The more you argue or explain your side with the family, the more opportunity they have to blame you once again if they fail.
You are mixing solving your on going relationship issues with this intervention These are two different issues. I would encourage the family to proceed WITH THIER INTERVENTION AND LET IT Go-- no more discussion.
Later you can review your position on the relationship and take appropriate actions . You do not need their approval
Good Luck.
Or the answer can be in the middle. You can speak your truth. They are the ones ready to say "we will have no contact with you if you don't do this"...you are not at that point and that is fine. You could simply say "I'm here to support you and the family" I am not taking sides either way. If you choose recovery. I know from all these years, I can't make you do anything. Then say no more.
Yeah...you could tell the kids that all these years in a relationship with their dad has affected you and you are really delving into your own recovery in alanon but it's been 20 years over getting worn down repeatedly. Also it sounds like not all your behaviors are enabling. Some of them are actually positive alanon tools you are making use of to keep peace in a way and to create your own serenity. You have been on the receiving end of abuse when you confronted him in the past and it was traumatic. Maybe it's not a wise idea for them to put you right up into confronting him after your history with him....Hence, it does make perfect sense to voice you need to work your own recovery to get your voice back and more of your esteem and independence. So for those reasons, maybe a conflict oriented "intervention" is not for you at the moment. I could absolutely see you taking that route as well.
I don't know the right answer exactly...I never do. But these are some possible choices that take YOU, YOUR experience, and YOUR needs more into account. Because here in alanon, what we care about is YOU! not as much him and his kids.
No Neshema2 - I DON'T WANT TO BE INVOLVED AT ALL! I feel as though they feel as though if I'm not part of the solution, I'm part of the problem and that I am part of the reason he is sick and that it's my responsibility. They've made suggestions about it in the past too, and not been accepting when I told them I coudn't afford to send him on a program that would cost $15k. Even when I explained to them that I had him at the door of 2 places for help, and he didn't go, they are willing to challenge that THEY will make the difference, when they tell him that they will have nothing to do with him and he will not be a part of their children's lives. They have told me they want me to do the same, as mentioned above. I'm not sure if it's just to get me out of his life or what, but it's pretty risky business for them, I'd say, because he may have another excuse.
OK....guess I didn't read your post right......
so OK!!!! Lets detach , get into meetings....work the program.....and with our encouragement and support, you post on here, in supplement to meetings and hopefully you can find a good sponsor to get you through the steps.......i know its confusing to think about, but his drinking and abuse impacted you greatly ....I mean he BIG time messed you up.....Just like my alcoholics did to me....they ALL affect their families in negative ways.....and who CARES what his kids think or don't think??? Do you???? I think the best thing is to just say "I have changed my mind about this intervention...it just won't work for me with my going" and END OF CASE!!!!
SO....lets focus on you....alanon is for you......we have on line meets here 2x per day if you are a bit shy about the face to face ones.....we have them here...and they are great.......there is a nice step board on this site, you can work the steps RIGHT HERE......while you hunt for a sponsor to guide you in the rest of the program....good literature , i got used at amazon.com......hope for today...courage to change...one day at a time in alanon......from survival to recovery....ALL alanon approved and great literature that never expires b/c the dailies are suggested we read over and over as the years go by........toby rice "getting them sober" will help you understand as well......LOADS of online stuff you can google that will have worksheets on the steps and issues within the program, like boundaries....knowing how to detach......I could go on......
Lets focus on what you are gonna do for you.....i know talking about it helps , and booy did i talk, but i was always looking for the "what can i do for me now????" yes, we need to vent and talk and get it out, but also to be open for the solution and suggestions and the program.......
keep coming back
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
