what kind of mother... - Al-Anon Family Group

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

what kind of mother...

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Maybe a mother who was affected by alcoholism and didnt know what the right thing was. A person who got her son away from the a after he hit him when she realised this was his chosen parental method. Maybe the kind of mother who tried really hard to keep it all together for her son putting everyone else on the backburner including herself. That mother tried everytbing she could think of to change how it was going. None of it was the right thing though. How cana mother not provide the most basic safety net that a person needs, a roof and a bed?

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

A mother who is instinct injured, afraid, with no real support. She has done her best with what she had to work with and hopefully will be merciful to herself and be met with mercy from others, too. She isn't God or a HP. She is merely a human facing tremendous odds to the best of her ability.

I knew a mother once who did all she could to raise her kids in safety and well. Her daughter did well until she reached the summer of her senior year. She seemed to become a total stranger to the Mother and no matter what the Mother did, the daughter sailed down a self-destructive path with a friend who the Mom blamed for her daughter's changes until one day the daughter turned to her Mother and said: "She isn't making me do these things. I am choosing this road and there is nothing you can do about it." The Mother, heart breaking, let go. What her daughter said was true: She was making the choices for this particular road and there was truly nothing the Mother could do but pray, heart aching, and wait one day at a time for whatever would come next with faith in her HP and in her daughter's.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 12th of December 2014 08:07:44 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 12th of December 2014 08:12:10 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 12th of December 2014 08:27:15 PM

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

el-cee wrote:
Loses control of her 14 yr old son, lets her a husband hit him cos she thinks he knows best. Watches him go off the rails, he ends up in hosoital at15 after taking drugs. Lets him hang around with older people who lead him astray and she cant get him back. Then cant handle the drama and kicks him out at 17. Then hes homeless, with alcoholic dad, couch surfing, not wanted by his own mother and then eventually he gets stabbed by the friend he saught refuge from. what kind of mother is that?

well I never though i was alone having the horrible family that I did, but to see it written saddens me....children like this have nearly no hope of a life......my favorite cousin told me when we were having a chat (she is working alanon kinda through me) anway, we were talking and her mother, my beloved aunt who rode to the rescue for me as often as she could (sadly not enough, not her fault, just that she had a lot of hindrence) anyway, "cuzzie" and i were talking and she told me how her mother and her dad (sire's brother) loved me and how sad it made them know that there wasn't much hope for us kids......they knew there was abuse...yea, they did pick me up and take me home with them on school holidays....WHY didn't ANY of them push and fight to help us if they KNEW we were being spiritually murdered?? I will never know....i know my aunt "H" did the best with the tools she had......

this happens all the time, LC....i lived it...i saw it....it is as old as time....this is why i have so much trouble trusting in any HP b/c of the lack of intervention during heinous acts.....my younger sister died from neglect....at age 14 , i saw she had BAD time breathing....."SHE can't BREATHE" i shouted to them, but they wanted to party and drink...he had his camera and i knew that he was gonna do some porno shots of the alcoholic b4 she got too plastered to pose for him..oh yea, we kids found his "albums" anyway, they tell me "well give her some cough medicine" so i am trying to help this kid who had a bad heart, and docs were gonna do some corrective surgery on her when she got older, as she was only 4 at this time.....shes strangling, I mean she can't breathe....I give her cough medicine, older sister i think gave her some, but i hardly remember, all i know is i was pretty much at age 14 "in charge" of this very sick child.....i bathed her, comforted her as best as a 14 year old can, i even asked her if she wanted me to snuggle in with her as she loved me and followed me around like a little quacking duckling......shock!!! she didn't want me in her bed with her....WOW! first time that ever happened, but i said "ok, holler at me if you need anything" its like midnight...i go to bed and i wake up with a start at 2am, scared half out of my mind.....i went as far as my door and stopped....i thought i saw something kinda "smokey" looking by her door and that spooked me even more, so i hid under my covers, head and all...i guess sleep claimed me b/c in the am, 9am or so, my brother who died at his own doing, came into my room and said to me "you know Luannie died last night" I asked him "WHAT TIME???" he looked at me and said the doc estimated the death to be around 2am......i went into her room, and yea, she was gone!! must be true!!! i felt a numbness come over me and then I got MAD!!! mad that she left and left me stuck with this horrible family......sure enough...her death was called at 2am b/c about an hour later, the alcoholic came down to her room and found her dead...frothing on her mouth....they called the doc and he came out and thats what he said......

what kind of mother??? they are all over the place...rich /poor ... of color/ caucasian.... educated/ uneducated....smart/dumb.....this kind of thing knows no boundaries.....i have asked many times "what kind of mother" and "how did we even survive??" well most of us survived....1 is dead by his own actions (suicide i call it when one has pnumonia and deliberately goes out in a snow storm and SITS in the snow on the back of a boat, fiddling w/his work he did that day and refuses medical help and TOLD me he wanted out of here and was leaving one way or the other) what kind of PARENT??? b/c this kind of thing knows no gender, either.........

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

AND it is possible that the above posts are accurate too....many possibilities.....i just shared mine through my experiences.......one has to wonder why this god gives fertility to women like the one who had me and her oldest daughter, and then denies that same fertility to a loving lady who would give her life to have a baby to love and to cherish and to protect........sooo sad

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

The kind of mom who truly loved her family and was faced with the insanity of alcoholism without the support of alanon. Remember alcoholism affects the entire family and we become distracted and unable to find the courage and wisdom to cope. Now that Mom has found alanon she can work the Steps , make amends for past mistakes and see different options and change her future responses.
Prayers for the son who has been injured and for the entire family especially mom who is blaming herself. even though she is powerless.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

hotrod wrote:
The kind of mom who truly loved her family and was faced with the insanity of alcoholism without the support of alanon. Remember alcoholism affects the entire family and we become distracted and unable to find the courage and wisdom to cope. Now that Mom has found alanon she can work the Steps , make amends for past mistakes and see different options and change her future responses.
Prayers for the son who has been injured and for the entire family especially mom who is blaming herself. even though she is powerless.

hey LC...remember my post about my BFF's sister, Janet dying??? well she had an A husband..I guess it is ok to talk about it b/c she is passed on and resting in peace, but she let a lot of crap happen to the kids, b/c she was too ashamed to tell her family , where the dad would have said , "you made your bed, now lie in it" and so she coped, but i remember the husb. beating up her son, picking on the girls, telling one she was a fat cow, and oh yea, he would get drunk and slam Janet around, and poor Janet, yea, she was trying to cope with all these kids, husb. kept forcing her to have more kids, she coudln't take the pill, so tried other methods to block pregnency and he would confiscate her stuff and rape her......we didn't know this till waaay long afterwards....she confided in my BFF and my BFF shared it w/me b/c she was so upset hearing this......everyone judged this woman b/c of the way things "looked" but they did not know just how bad the alcoholic husband was and how terrified Janet was, she took many blows for the kids, but still they were not spared very much...lots of folks reamed her out b/c of the condition of her children...well she had noone to help her, she was young when married, beaten down emotionally by him to the point where she was so coda and her coda got more and more intense.......

I talked about MY mother quite harshly...she HAD help...her father BEGGED her to leave this bastard that he would help her get a job, get a place, bring the children, my mother had LOADS of help offered up to her......Janet did not....just us young kids hanging out and we would baby sit for her so she could hang oout with her girlfriends to get a break.....i saw wounds on her all the time...split lips, black eyes, and that was AFTER she layed low to heal....she was trapped...no education of much, just highschool, no real training in doing anything but being a mom, and as good of a mom that she could be under the circumstances...."S" and i talked of this just this week, working our alanon stuff together and we pondered that Janet may have lived longer had she dumped him sooner, but when u r trapped, u don't think/rrespond...she was beaten down......

so yea, there is the other "what kind of mother" that deserves, cries out for empathy and compassion.....Janets kids got into trouble, had issues w/drinking and getting in trouble but for the most part, they are , the girls anyway, are working through their stuff....I hope they make it.....this crap goes through the generations like a brush fire till they get into recovery and stop it....look at me...i was very coda, and i know i was a good parent, but hell...i made my share of mistakes....being overly protective, dating emotionally unavailable men who screwed me up, i never brought them home, but i did bring AH#2 home to my kids...

he was sweet but he was a DRUNK!!!! good example for the kids, oh yea!! .....so yea, i have my amends i had to make and I did..the best i could..."S" made amends w/her daughter marrying the turd that she married...he was into porn and drinking......so maybe i should have put this in with my first post, b/c my first post was HARSH......i was thinking about my mother over some stuff my older adopted sister and i talked about that kinda triggered me into this funk, my injured back is still in pain, some over the beatings and trauma, ptsd thanks to them, so yea, i am kinda in a funk over this stinking back pain....even tho it is much better, this muscle just keeps trying to seize up and i am in kinda of a down day today...more pain then yesterday and Wed.......i get sick w/this due to the stress/trauma and i think of those awful people adn think that ALL mothers are/were like mine and that is not true.....poor Janet was a good woman...now she rests in peace....no more bad memories....i just hope her kids, "S's" nieces and nephews continue their healing road.....lots of anger issues with the boys, i hear.........

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

LC, i hope i didn't offend you , talking about my bio mother....lots of bad memories coming up of late about her...things she did to other folks, not just me but other kids....i just have to work it through to move on from it.....oldest adoptive sister and i had quite a conversation about her this week....so yea, i was remembering some stuff.....

there are to me, bad mothers and then there are mothers trapped in situations that are hellish and they can't get away due to maybe finances, or no help available, or they have minor kids, or they are so beaten down, they are like the hostages referenced in the stockholm syndrome where those hostages identified with their captors......I dont' see everything as black and white anymore.....there is a lot of "grey" in situations......I am working on myself to see more "grey" or get more info b4 i pass judgement....

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

The kind of mother that was minimized and devalued; trying to be a good wife and mother with a lousy foundation and poor role models. The kind of mother who did not have anyone affirming the sacredness of her femininity causing her to choose a man that would not or could not hold her sacred. The kind of mother that was tortured each time her child was disrespected, yet was not aware of the torture because she had learned to be disconnected from herself in order to survive. The kind of mother that causes me to want to weep knowing the anguish she is now living with, unable to forgive herself for what she deems unforgivable. I am so sorry this mother is living with this pain.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

el-cee wrote:
Cant live with her own son because it looks like hes an alcoholic? Cant face the full story.x

-- Edited by el-cee on Friday 12th of December 2014 09:12:30 PM

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((el-cee)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) dunno whats up, my little Scottish friend, but pm me if you want...I am up for a while................soooo sorry

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

LC,

I just want to say hindsight is always 20-20 .. I can look back on the last 3 years and say I could have, would have or should have blah blah blah on many many different things. The reality was I did the best I could given the circumstances of my knowledge .. and now I can do better because now I know better. I know my kids are going to have long term effects of this awful divorce process .. there is not one damn thing I can do about it. What I can do is take care of myself better, know me, and all of the good stuff .. instead of focusing on beating myself up about the would have, could have, should have because I lack the ability to go back and fix those things in my life. Not even the God of my understanding can rewrite the history that has already been made.

Big hugs sis .. this stuff is hard and it's frustrating and I will always believe a lot of guilt eats us because while I think I should forgive everyone else I do myself a disservice by not starting with ME first. There is no right answer for any one situation and being an armchair quarterback is easy compared to walking through the fire of these specific situations.

S :)

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

There are many mothers who cannot live with their alcoholic sons because they've tried it and the disease was killing them both. One thing I learned as I freed my son to go his way in his way: If he wanted to live as I wanted him to live, he would do it. He didn't. Some of it is alcoholism and some of it is that urge to go beyond what one has known in life to forge a new way, a new path. Our wounds can also lead us to our destiny, el cee. Mine did. I've met many others whose wounds led them to new life, too. I do think that having faith in our children and in their abilities is a gift for them. They may not have the kind of life we had dreamed possible for them and yet who is to say that the lives they are living aren't beneficial to them and to others in some way that we simply can't and don't see?

I hope I'm not saying too much and yet I feel the need to express this: On the subject of wounds, I want to bring Rosie front and center here. I don't know what mother you are referring to, el cee, but I doubt the son you're referring to went through anything similar to her childhood. Yet, here this beautiful woman stands in solidarity with us alive and wanting to love and be loved. Her life can give so many of us hope for our children and although they may not live their lives as she has or reached the age that she has reached, they can be a help to so many people along the way that we can't reach because they can understand things and people that maybe we'll never understand or be able to lift up in the way that Rosie can or the way that our children can or will.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 12th of December 2014 10:14:26 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 12th of December 2014 10:15:08 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 12th of December 2014 10:15:50 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 12th of December 2014 11:06:34 PM

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Keep doing the inventory Sis...this isn't a moral issue...its about disease. 3cee it and use unconditional acceptance. No mallets allowed and only HP does the judging. In support (((((hugs))))) smile

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you everyone, I had a bad night last night. You helped me, thank you for being here. I cried for hours and I just dont do that. I think its done me good. Sorry if I worried you. Rosie, your a sweetheart.x

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

el-cee wrote:
Thank you everyone, I had a bad night last night. You helped me, thank you for being here. I cried for hours and I just dont do that. I think its done me good. Sorry if I worried you. Rosie, your a sweetheart.x

((((((((((((((((((el-cee))))))))))))))))) tears to me are liquid prayers.....they are a good release....I am sorry u were so sad, but glad you could cry and cleanse yourself of the pain..........each time we work through something really intense like this, we are a step closer to more peace and serenity....I have been feeling some heavy stuff too, now i just let it run its course , like the flu, and i can move on............I was worried, but its OK...I knew you would be ok....felt it in my heart........hugs and friendship always.......

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

((((((((((el-cee)))))))))))

'Living with an alcoholic is more than most of us can bear' - to my mind that statement even includes mothers, the most resourceful, tough fighting, loving people alive. I imagine a tiger mum with a cub that, for whatever reason, chooses to turn on the world. I wonder what that beautiful tough fighting and loving tiger mum would do? I think you are as wise as a tiger mum El-cee, and I respect your choices. Take care my friend, I can't imagine how tough it feels, but I hear you. Sending gentle hugs and much love.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

LC Be kind an gentle with yourself. You are so worth it.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I work with juvenile delinquents who use drugs. Prior to that - foster kids - and some of them were in foster care simply because the parents could not handle them anymore. The kids were not breaking the law enough to go to jail (unlike the current teens I work with) but they stayed out all the time, did drugs, and were gone half the time anyhow. Some of their parents are terrible. Some of them are great and there is NO reason why they act like they do other then that they are seriously rebelling. Not everyone has the money to ship their unruly kid off to a boarding school or military academy. Teenagers also run away and then what? They can be incorrigible. Parents (especially single moms) have to work and can't lose their job picking up their kid ever 5 minutes when they get suspended, arrested...whatever. It is sad, but I would say that after 15 or so, kids nowadays start making adult choices with adult consequences.

Also, what kind of substance abuse therapist for kids is an active, sloppy pass out drunk by night? Why would someone with education in psychology (practically a Ph.D.) have mental illness, drinking issues, like 5 failed long term relationships...wouldn't you think that person should know better? That person who grew up with 2 parents, no alcoholism in the immediate family, upper middle class...How could that happen?

If I wanted to rip myself the history is there. So...I have learned in the program that the only purpose for looking backwards is for objective self-inventory purposes so we can keep moving forward (never to get stuck there or pass judgment on ourselves while we are trying our best to change). Other than that...

Only look backwards to measure how far you've come.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Also - damage done by an alcoholic father at a younger age may play out later when the mom is the only active and involved parent left. Hence, it looks like mom caused/contributed to it but really she's trying her best ALONE and with NO HELP to deal with the fall out. Couple that with the fact that alcoholism is hugely genetic and passed down from father's to sons especially and there you have it....A 14 year old walking a path towards drug addiction and alcohol despite mother trying her hardest.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

What kind of single mother from another country sends a wedding gift for a gay persons wedding when they haven't ever even met them face to face? Probably one of the kindest things I've ever experienced in my whole life. 2 people did that for me here and you were one of them. Show yourself the same kindness.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Glad you made it through the darkness of night into the promise of a new day and a new perspective since you are the woman you were talking about. I have met and heard stories of some really sick moms whose kids rose above their circumstances and went on to be a great help to many. Oprah Winfrey comes to mind. I have also met some really healthy Moms whose kids made choices that simply didn't compute in any logical way. We just don't know all the reasons or answers to the question "why" and that's one of the reasons I see people to be mysteries to behold rather than problems to be solved. I hope today is better for you, elcee.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 13th of December 2014 09:48:55 AM

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Elcee, how cleansing. So glad you trusted us with a very deep part of you. I look forward to seeing your tree smile

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks for your help and concern and kind words. It means a lot to me. This particular layer of my onion is a stubborn one that comes back from time to time. Thanks for helping me with it, so grateful to be part of mip.x

cloudyskies · ~*Service Worker*~

Praying for you ((el-cee)).

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear El-cee,

It is perfectly natural for parents to want/need to nurture our children always, Even as adults.

Then we find Al Anon and learn to be a good parent to an A child we must do the worst thing. We need to do nothing for them, but love them. They have to be 100% on taking care of themselves, fall and get up completely on their own.

If they were not sick with a disease we of course would still help and support them and they us. Sadly not the case with A's.

We cannot even treat our spouses like a regular marriage unless we want to go down too. We don't share moneys, don't put our names on things together, cannot trust each other.

You are doing fine. We all sorta go full circle back to what we are working on. respond to a raging A after a long time of using our tools, picking up the A from jail, ooops it was up to him to figure it out.

My son is not A el-cee but i have to allow him the dignity to take care of himself. I have always shared money with him if I got some extra. He has had tough times, but would not take it. I would slip some in his door. Just recently he was catching up again. I asked if he needed anything. nope.

He wants to feel the deep need of taking care of himself. He takes pride in it.HOpefully your son will someday too. He has to feel he needs to.

I was in a rough time. no vehicle, no money fighting to live alone. some friends kept helping me. I wanted them to stop so I stopped contacting them. We are fine of course but it felt good to get back on my feet on my own, and stilldoes. I even have food and money at the end of the month now.

It is honestly accepting, and "believing" he can do it and if we interfere we take away from them, not give.

yes it is freaking hard! It will get easier. He has his own path and has to figure out what he wants for himself. He won't if mommy cushions it uno?

HE is A, he needs to figure that out for him. Many A's lead really cool lives, might mess up but get back up and go again!Being an A is not a death sentence.Some of our coolest people are A's.

My ex A was an amazing musician. played music all over. was a song writer too. he built me my barn, made me laugh, amazing lover. surprised me, loved me. He is one of the most damaged A's I have ever known.

el-cee I am soo happy you stuck here and are part of us, a big part of us. Hugging you, we love our sons, A or not, we have to let them go, and it hurts!

Betty of all people knows this

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.