detachment question - Al-Anon Family Group

akk · Member

detachment question

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

There is no wrong time to detach but there are different ways of detaching - some better than others. If you are not in Al-Anon, our suggestion is that you attend at least six meetings before you decide if Al-Anon is for you. There you will find the help you need in learning how to detach in ways that can protect yourself from the effects of the disease without contributing to its destructive pattern. You will also meet people who might sound as if they are telling your story and have learned how to put emotional distance between themselves and this disease. One of the things we learn in Al-Anon is not to allow ourselves to be abused or used in the interest of a loved one's recovery.

I am the mother of an alcoholic son. I know that head/heart pull on an experiential level. I've also learned that I didn't cause my son's disease. I can't cure it. I can't control it. I also know that the disease is killing him and there is nothing I can do about that. The best help I can give him is to take good care of myself and let him suffer the consequences of his disease without interference. He stopped being verbally abusive when I stopped listening to it. I stopped listening to it by saying goodbye when it started, not answering the phone when he called in the early morning hours, quit allowing him to come to my home until he returns to a recovery program which he may never do, stopped celebrating even his birthday or Christmas with him when his disease is operative and letting him figure out where he's going to live, get clothes, shampoo, you name it. I didn't make those choices to punish him. I made those choices to take care of myself and to let him experience the consequences of employing inappropriate and unacceptable behaviors in relationship to me. I wouldn't tolerate that behavior from a healthy person. There is no healthy reason to tolerate it from an unhealthy person either - adult child or not.

I do hope you will find the doors of Al-Anon where you can find help and hope for yourself. It has made a huge difference for me.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

I didnt really KNOW detachment until I experienced it. I knew what others had said about it, so, I practiced it from what I knew in my head. As Grateful said, there are different ways of detaching. In this situation with your daughter, check,your motives for your pull to follow her requests. If there is guilt, shame, martyrdom, etc in the mix it might be best to say " it won't work for me to bring these things to you...I know you are well cared for now, I love you, bye for now".

Regular attendance at al anon meetings and sponsorship can help bring you peace.

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome AKK

I'm the mother of a AS and I can understand what your going through. I too went many years enabling my son out of guilt, worry and fear he will die. Detaching was so wrong at first because I didn't understand what it really meant. In the two years I have been with Al-anon and MIP I have learned a lot about how much I really loved my son and wanted to save him.

If I had continued to keep doing what I have done in the past he would probability be dead now. I kept him safe to the point of hurting him more. I kept him comfortable enough to let him continue to drink himself to death. It's when I stepped back, told him I loved him but would not help him anymore is when it got really bad but I found he could help himself. He found a way because A's are good at finding a way to cope without our help. Yeah it was really bad and in the end he is now in prison for 2 years ( 3rd. DUI) . But you know it's the best thing that could have happened to him because all the hospitals, detox, rehabs in the world were not doing a thing to help him.

He is in forced sobriety now and his head is finally clear enough to realized what he is doing to himself and he is growing up. I can take this time to write him, tell him how much I love him and I'm proud he is learning and will come out a better man. I can take this time to look deep into my part with this mess and learn how to live with my son for what he is and never again try to change him. He has got to pay for his choices not his mom anymore.

Now AKK.......please keep coming back and get involved because you are not alone and don't need to be alone in this. Let us be your cheerleaders to keep you moving forward to helping yourself and becoming happy no matter if she drinks or not.

((( hugs )))

PS: When my son cried and cried asking me to bail him out was the day I finally realized I can detach with love and kindness.. I think I cried for two days but in the end it was the best thing I ever did for my son.

-- Edited by Cathyinaz on Monday 8th of December 2014 10:57:20 AM

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

(((AKK, Grateful, Cathy)))

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I think it takes some real program work before detachment is a tool you can use even then its hard. Theres a philosphy behind it and alanon will you help you understand it and practice it. If you go to the alanon website you will find a meeting near you. When you get there you should get a welcome pack. I suggest read and learn, the sooner the better.
I suggest doing what you feel is right for you. If you want to provide these things for your daughter then do it. If you are ready to not enable then it might be good for her to fix this mess herself, you could tell her, you have faith that she will sort this out and then let her. Verbal abuse is unacceptable and maybe you can set that clear boundary.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome! It all comes down to how do you feel. If she was not your daughter would you accept treatment like that? Would you turn around and allow them to use you becuz they need something?

For me I don't care who you are, treat me with respect or else stay away from me.

As far as us, sometimes all we can do is feel our love for them, but do nothing for them they cannot do for themselves. We don't learn when we have others take care of us. We do not have the right to babysit them, take away their chance to learn and hopefully grow up.

I do understand, I am a mother too. But I am telling you no way would I do anything for anyone who treated me badly.

Detaching for me was looking at that person as very, very sick. I did not want to do anything to help the disease. So I allowed him to figure it all out for himself. To the point I did not do his wash, cook for him, nothing.

I was loving and polite, caring though.

IF he was mean to me like your daughter was, I would not be around him at all and he would be gone, and he is.

Hugs honey glad you are here!

akk · Member

Thank you all so much. I was blessed to find this board and your responses made me open my eyes. You are right, if she were not my daughter, I would not have anything to do with her because of the meanness. I am not so good at boundaries, and I know I need them. I have found a good meeting in my town, will go to that, and have been reading things on this site. I know I have a lot of work to do, and am ready to do it.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

To be kind, generous, supportive and unconditional loving is most natural and for me doing these things without expectation of anything in return keeps me free of the outcomes of "their" choices. I don't give money to alcoholics and addicts and I will give clothes and food and maybe some time other than that I set them free to earn with dignity the consequences of their choices. When I detach HP continues on 24/7. ((((hugs)))) It doesn't have to be new and or designer stuff does it? You can help her out and the Sally Store in one fell swoop doing the recycle. Keep coming back (((((hugs))))) smile

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

akk wrote:
My head tells me stay away, my heart feels guilty. Is there a right/wrong time to detach?

emotions (heart feling guilty) is only a feeling.....i hope you listen to your head...if you listen to your head, she will know that she has to take care of herself....I agree with what PP said re : doing this for her won't work for you now......let her know you love her and wish her the best, but she has to take care of her own stuff now....u r not her slave or "go for" lady...your head is trying to protect you from further abuse....I have a daughter, too, who passively aggressively abuses me....I love her and let her know, but i also back off and let her do her life, I put me first now....it does not mean i don't care..it means i am not gonna jump when she says jump, then get dumped on......i take care of me....the guilt feeling you feel is that you think b/c u r the mom, you have to coddle her and put up w/abuse......NOT so....she is big enough to tote her own life knapsack......give her support and encoragement, but take care of you is what i do........sending you support

cloudyskies · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi akk and welcome to MIP. I'm glad you found us. I am sorry you are going through this with your daughter. I recommend the book Courage to Change. It's an Al-Anon approved literature and has quite a bit on detachment. If you have not found Al-Anon I strongly recommend you find some meetings and attend. Group shares can also help you understand detachment. As the others have said detachment is not the same for everyone, and there are different forms of detachment.

Take care of you and take one day at a time.

Teepee85 · Member

I agree with cloudy skies. Courage to change is a fantastic little book which really helps. I picked up my first copy yesterday on loan and am now waiting for one to arrive in the mail.

I have an alcoholic husband so can well relate to these feelings. When up in rehab and hospital I was always the one to bring him clothes etc but later realised it wasn't ok to put myself out for someone who would only be nice to me when wanting something.

I hope you manage to attend an Al anon group soon.. They really are helpful and you'll feel a lot better after attending your first.

Let us know your progress!

akk · Member

I have been reading the message boards and been to 2 online, one f2f meeting. My Ad is in a behavioral/mental health hospital, where they diagnosed her as PTSD and Stockholm syndrome due to abuse from boyfriend. She has been calling me and I have not been available. I finally spoke with her this AM and told her I love her but she had to due this on her own. She immediately went to telling me that she is not using and needs my support and I have to be there for her. I told her I cared about her (again) but I do not have the power to do this for her. She cried and I told her I loved her and had to go. Had a stinky rest of day.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I know a recovering A who has been in the program for multiple years. He also was instrumental in starting a recovery house for As, is a therapist and also a minister. One of the things I remember him saying about his struggles with As was their mothers. They just wouldn't let go. As the mother of an A myself, I can't guarantee myself or anybody else that stepping out and away when it seems the most loving thing I can do for myself, my daughter and grandson, or my son when he's active is the most loving thing I can do or anybody else can do. But I do trust that when I know I've done everything in my power to be there with and for my son and it only backfires or puts me and the rest of my family in harm's way, letting go is the only sane thing available to me. That doesn't mean I can't reconnect with my adult child at another time and I can stay open to that possibility. It does mean that I must be willing to continue to show up for my own life, attend meetings, read the literature, meet with my sponsor and listen to others in the fellowship one day at a time. There is a suggestion in Al-Anon that I remember when I get shaky: Get off their backs. Get out of their way. Give them to God. Get on with your life.

Letting go in faith isn't easy. Hanging on will never help. Keep coming back and keep learning how to work the program. The Merry-go-Round Named Denial is the single most helpful pamphlet that I obtained in Al-Anon when it comes to my alcoholic son. It might be helpful to you, too.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 10th of December 2014 10:22:04 PM

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Alison, I am so very sorry that you are experiencing these painful calls from your daughter. I will hold you both in my prayers.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

grateful2be wrote:
. It does mean that I must be willing to continue to show up for my own life, attend meetings, read the literature, meet with my sponsor and listen to others in the fellowship one day at a time. There is a suggestion in Al-Anon that I remember when I get shaky: Get off their backs. Get out of their way. Give them to God. Get on with your life.
Letting go in faith isn't easy. Hanging on will never help. Keep coming back and keep learning how to work the program. The Merry-go-Round Named Denial is the single most helpful pamphlet that I obtained in Al-Anon when it comes to my alcoholic son. It might be helpful to you, too.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 10th of December 2014 10:22:04 PM

EXACTLY my feelings.....i show up for me now.....kids have to work their own daily issues.....when i was so sick w/my injured back, immobile, in so much pain i couldn't even talk at times, D#1 called me, comforted me, (she is in MD--I am in TX) my D#2 who lives next door??? Nothing....No call....No "how are you" yet her computer has broken down and she wanted me to fix it.....I said "i will give you the # of a good friend who is really reasonable.....fixing your computer won't work for me...I need to therapy my back" and i let it go...did't say anything about she only reaches out when she wants something or has a ??? , I did't say a word...I just said I would give her number of my friend who won't charge her much........I am showing up for MY life and MY welfare....gone are the days of my running over to fix her computer and i don't even get a thank you or a dinner time w/her.......give her to her maker....getting on with my life.......i don't let go in faith, i just LET GO that which is not within my hulu hoop.....i will always care about/ love her, but I am not her rescuer and fix it lady anymore......i finally came to acceptance that she is what she is right now and i have to detach w/love and peace....i am open for reconcile, but if she wants me in her life, it has to be healthy---real---non using---happy for both of us.....so sorry you are getting these upsetting calls for her and "NO" you DON"T have to "be there for her" she did this, she signed up for this, she needs to fix her own stuff or she will never grow up and learn to stand on her own two feet.....You don't "owe" her anything but your love and empathy and peaceful detachment so she can learn what she has to learn w/you out of the way, she CAN learn....hopefully...if she does not learn then the same old painful lessons will keep coming at her till she does learn...either way, it is not your journey...not your responsibililty.......so sorry U R hurting....but through alanon it does get better........in support

akk · Member

I found this site "by accident" last weekend and have been on it every day ever since. The wisdom here truly helps, and the sharing always seems to hit some snag I am encountering. She uses the mental health back door when she needs to, and while she most probably does have PTSD from the creep, she knows that is my button. There is a little part of me that asks "what if she is in need of help because of the mental aspect?" but a stronger part of me answers that she has always had a mental health component and nothing I have done has helped. This is just another way to drag me in. I am saying the serenity pray a lot these days- a LOT. I had not been sharing a lot about her with my husband because he 1. has got her number 2. had 2 brothers die from this disease and I did not want to "burden" him. I finally broke down Saturday and told him. Bit by bit I will grow.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

We are not our kids' doctors, therapists, counselors, nurses or other professionals and letting go of those expectations of ourselves can result in our feeling relief. My daughter was 6 and my son was 8 when I learned this lesson. I knew enough psychology to make me dangerous. I knew that red and black together in a picture could indicate anger or rage. My daughter brought home a paper "stainglass" window hanging of a tulip. The tulip bloom was black and the stem was red. My heart sunk and panic ensued. I struggled to think how to handle this with my daughter. My son said: "_______, why did you paint that tulip black? Tulips aren't black." "Because, bwuver, that's all the cowers dey had."

-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 11th of December 2014 11:07:57 AM

texas yankee · Senior Member

Well, AKK, you are certainly at the right place - there's a lot of wisdom here, in the form of everyone's experience, strength, and hope.

I found that detachment from my adult child, a "dry drunk" addict, was absolutely, positively, one of the hardest things I ever had to do - but I did it, and you can, too. In my situation, I had an enlightening moment one day in a meeting, when I realized that not one thing - NOT ONE SINGLE THING - that I had done during the time I was trying to "help" my son had really done anything to help him or change his life for the better - I now realize that I was doing nothing more than feeding his disease and trying to make myself feel better, with the mistaken idea that my enablement would help him find a path to a better life - it did nothing - NOTHING - besides kicking the can down the road.

Now that I let him do for himself what he should be doing for himself, I believe that I'm finally doing something that has worked for so many other people - I try and have faith that it'll work for me and my son in this situation, too.

I also pray constantly - ESPECIALLY when my head starts spinning with stories about how bad things will be for my son now that I'm not there to "help" him any more - I pray for my HP to show him a better path, give him the courage to get on that better path, and the strength to stay on that path - and I pray for my HP to help me stay out of His way so He can be active in this situation - for me, it is a constant battle, but I am getting it done - you can too - keep coming back.

akk · Member

You are so right: not ONE thing that I have done has helped. The mental health issue has my heart buffaloed, but my head tells me this is one of the manipulative tools in her overstuffed bag. I am absolutely powerless over this and I need to work on accepting that. The guilt is huge.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

I so understand this guilt. My heart will always ache when my kids ache, yet I have the many voices I have heard through the years to guide me to take the best actions. As my children have grown older I can see they, too, have benefitted from al anon. The have not attended meetings; they hear and see al anon principles in me. It is a beautiful gift for me and them.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

As a boomer parent, I thought it was my job to protect my kids FOREVER from what I believed was unnecessary struggle or pain. If I could have chased around with lambs wool body wraps, a bullhorn, a siren and caution tape I probably would have done it. My parents were much better at standing back and letting us screw up when we reached 18 and older than I was. It took me a long time to realize that struggle can strengthen and pain can help point a person to making better choices or getting help. It was also very difficult for me to stop seeing my kids as dependent infants, wobbly toddlers, innocent 3 and 4 yos, on and on the images came. Once I could really see them as adults who really were capable of making their own choices and dealing with the consequences of those choices - just like me - I stopped thinking it was my job to protect, warn, or stop them from struggle and pain. That doesn't mean I don't fall back in my mind sometimes, but I have the program, the fellowship and my sponsor to help me pull back and put away all the caution lights, warning signs and lambs wool.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.