The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
My situation is difficult, because my significant other and I are having to work together to stay afloat financially, but he's not doing his share. He's addicted to the internet, really really addicted. He was forced to semi-retire June 2013, but still works freelance. His pension is basically nothing. If he moved to Butan and lived in a hut, he would still need to double his income to survive on his pension. I have PTSD, and I work for him, without pay. He needs my help because he can't do detail work any more without making mistakes - at least not with the meds he's taking which are causing him to have brain fog. He had a stroke 2 years ago.
He's recovered spectacularly well, and is now even driving a Chevy surburban around. He feels well enough to work full time. He is still the best there is, in our state, at his main skill. But he won't try to work at his business, at all. He relies on me to motivate him to do anything, anything at all. He refuses to retire and start collecting social security because he wants to wait until full retirement age, but he sits around all day surfing the internet. We are using up his savings, which are of course dwindling.
I've had several talks with him about the situation, and he is just not listening to me. I presented the situation to him complete with an analysis of how much we are going in the red every month, hoping that would light a fire under him. It did not work. I am the one who does all the health research to get him better, and I have done a lot. I've gotten him off of several meds through nutrition. He feels welll enough now to work. I spend all my time trying to figure out how to get him even better, how to get him to work at his business ,and I'm getting to the point that I'm just very angry. This last weekend, he surfed the internet while I shopped for food, and worked at making food. That's all he did - surf the internet. I asked him one morning, this last weekend, what he was going to do that day to get over his internet addiction, and he just brushed the question aside and went back to the internet. He does not listen to me or take this problem seriously.
So considering that I'm dependent on him, I'd like some advice on how I can stop enabling even though I'm stuck in this situation for now.
Do I:
Stop helping him in any way with his business?
Stop pushing him to get any work?
Forget about helping him in any way with dealing with doctors or health information? Maybe I should forget all about that, since he will just go along with everything the doctors say without questioning? I recently got them to change one of his meds because it was causing him kidney damage, and his kidneys are improving now, but this is taking a lot out of me. I swear to myself that I will never ever do this to anyone else - make someone else do all my health research for me, so I can survive dealing with the medical establishment. It's been 2 years since the stroke, and I'm still spending so much time on *his* health. Should I just hand over whatever books and research I've done up to this point, and forget about it? I'm diabetic, I have my own health issues to solve!
Let him cook his own food?
I've gotten to the point that I'm just angry, and it is taking less and less to make me angry.
First, welcome to MIP...I hope you are able to find some ESH (experience, strength and hope) that will help you process yours situation and come up with solutions that will work for you. From my experience, when I feel stuck it does not mean I am stuck. One of the things it means is, I am not doing what I desire to do (after first consulting my HP, of course ) , I am doing what I think I "should" do based on what others may need. I am leaving me out of the equation. I have a few suggestions that might be helpful? Read John's post on "Detachment with Love". You did not mention alcohol addiction, however al anon would be helpful to know you cannot change him and his habits, but you can change yours to live a more serene life. Look at your situation as though you were looking at it through the eyes of a loving friend....what would that loving friend tell you? We all really know inside us what we need to do, but we don't like the knowing we have so we get all twisted up in our heads. Us humans are funny
Hi and welcome to MIP. I married an A who I was dependent on financially and as a father to my children, he got to the point that he was not functioning as well nor bringing in as much money and I took on more and more work. I started off with one part time job and after awhile to make ends meat I had 4 jobs and I decided then and there I needed to get myself a career job that I could better take care of myself and my kids with. So that is what I am doing now. I have had to deal with myself and look deep within and take really good care of myself and stop some of my dysfunctional thinking, depending on someone unable to take care of themselves let alone me and our kids, and dive into al-anon to help me gain the tools to do the work. I had a great sponsor for 4 years and many great al-anoners along the way to help me focus on myself to get through what it was for me that needed dealt with. I am glad you are here and I hope you can better focus on meeting your own needs first, and fill up your reserve tank and keep it full so that you can give from your overflow. Sending you love and support on your journey!
__________________
Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
Welcome to MIP. I can't answer your personal questions for you and I am thinking that you might want to consider asking yourself the question: Why am I doing this after each question and then wait for the true answer that will bubble up in you. Journaling the questions and answers are always a big help for me. Maybe they'll also help you determine the motives underlying your behaviors and from there maybe you'll see what to continue doing and what to drop? It could be he isn't "addicted to gaming" as much as he is bored with his life and not sure what to do from this point forward? Regardless of what he is doing or why he is doing it which is all his business and his HP's, you can put your attention and focus on you and make some changes that are right for you now?
As an aside: I truly don't think there is such a thing as a true addiction to gaming as much as it can become a bad habit for somebody who is at loose ends or they just like or need the stimulation of other players at their game site? Whether or not it is a true addiction, he'll stop playing when he wants to do it. Just like alcoholism, we can't cause, control or cure somebody's positive or negative thoughts, feelings and behaviors. That's all their business. We can pay attention to our own thoughts, feelings and behaviors and put energy into changing what isn't helpful to our growth as human beings living quality lives.
I believe the only way I broke this cycle was to learn about me and my motives. What was it about me that meant I needed to control, save, fix another human being and basically sacrifice my own life, health and happiness? Its all within, all the answers.
My motives are to survive. I focus on his health so much, in order to prop him up, but I've gone as far as I can with that. It's making me crazy.
Before the stroke, I didn't have to do this. He had his job, I had a job, and I didn't have to try to be his mother the way I do now.
His addiction is not to gaming, it's just to surfing the internet for information. It's facebook and science forums mostly. he literally will sit in front of
the computer and be oblivious to everything else. He'll do it all day, every day.
Since I'm dependent on him right now, I think what I will try is to tell him that I will help him with the normal stuff couples do, like taking him to
the DMV when he needs a permit and etc., and I will do the cooking and etc., but I will stop helping him with his health or his business.
And then start focusing on something like learning Wordpress, so I can have a way to earn my own living.
And I guess I want to start reading about people's experiences on this forum, to learn more.
Sorry I misunderstand what he was doing on the internet. I sense loneliness from what you are writing about him and still believe he might be at loose ends now and could be searching for something to "light his fire" again? He could actually be rewiring his damaged brain in a way that you can't see right now? Reading science forums makes me wonder about that.
My Dad had a stroke. It affected the way he thought and what he could do. Perhaps his being at the computer are residuals from the stroke? Mothering my Dad was not something I would do. I'd let him struggle with things that were harder for him to do than before the stroke but that I knew he was capable of practicing and re-learning. It hurt sometimes to watch him try to peel a banana which could take him 5 to 6 minutes or more to do. But, he wanted that banana and it was a blessing to watch the pride on his face when he accomplished doing what had once been a very simple task for him to complete. I'd also ask if he needed help with something that looked to me as if it might be too much for him and I'd help if he said "yes." Otherwise, I'd occupy myself with something else to do. It's hard to see the changes that come about in our loved ones following a stroke. Learning how to be there with them without doing it for them is an art form in my experience. It took my Dad about a year to regain some of his physical abilities but his mind was affected in some sad ways following his stroke. Sending you lots of encouragement and understanding as you do what seems right to do for you.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 2nd of December 2014 05:56:57 PM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 2nd of December 2014 06:02:24 PM
Sorry I misunderstand what he was doing on the internet. I sense loneliness from what you are writing about him and still believe he might be at loose ends now and could be searching for something to "light his fire" again? He could actually be rewiring his damaged brain in a way that you can't see right now? Reading science forums makes me wonder about that.
My Dad had a stroke. It affected the way he thought and what he could do. Perhaps his being at the computer are residuals from the stroke? Mothering my Dad was not something I would do. I'd let him struggle with things that were harder for him to do than before the stroke but that I knew he was capable of practicing and re-learning. It hurt sometimes to watch him try to peel a banana which could take him 5 to 6 minutes or more to do. But, he wanted that banana and it was a blessing to watch the pride on his face when he accomplished doing what had once been a very simple task for him to complete. I'd also ask if he needed help with something that looked to me as if it might be too much for him and I'd help if he said "yes." Otherwise, I'd occupy myself with something else to do. It's hard to see the changes that come about in our loved ones following a stroke. Learning how to be there with them without doing it for them is an art form in my experience. It took my Dad about a year to regain some of his physical abilities but his mind was affected in some sad ways following his stroke. Sending you lots of encouragement and understanding as you do what seems right to do for you.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 2nd of December 2014 05:56:57 PM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 2nd of December 2014 06:02:24 PM
Thanks for exploring this with me, grateful2be. I don't know if he's looking to restore his damaged brain somehow, may have to ask him about that. He's always been into these particular science forums, and has even spent all his spare time on that instead of writing, even though he's so good at writing that his friends used to (metaphorically) sit on him and demand chapters for publishing purposes, and etc. So if he'd rather read stuff about evolution arguments, than write, that was up to him. I didn't bug him about it.
That was before the stroke. Since the stroke, well, I've figured out that he actually can do just about as well as he could before he had it. Last summer, the doctor took him off of all calcium channel blockers, and he had just one blood pressure med, and he felt better, and he had very little "mental fog. " His mental capacity was pretty close to what it was before, and he was not lethargic, and he did not do things like: think the dipstick on his car showed it had enough oil when it was actually bone dry. Then his blood pressure went up after a month, the doc put him back on a calcium channel blocker, and things got bad again. So I know it's more the meds than it is him.
I've suggested alternatives to taking meds, that might at least get the drugs lessened to a level that would let him function better, and he's been resistant. So whatever, I can't deal with it any more. I used to have a blood pressure of 140/90 for years, and I got mine down to normal through nutrition. I'm tired of trying to figure out how I can get his blood pressure down, in order to lessen his meds. After 2, actually 2.5 years, I'm worn out.
I'm sorry about what happened to your Dad. If my s/o was in such a situation, there'd be no question that he has to retire and get his social security. But he's well enough that we can imagine he can still work, we both know he has the energy to still work, and he chooses to sit around surfing the net, while getting whatever freelance work comes his way with no effort on his part.
Well, as we say in Alanon - the A is going to do what the A is going to do. What are you going to do? You haven't stated he is an alcoholic or problem drinker and I think you can substitute anything for the word alcoholic or letter A that would apply. You have written a very solid plan of action for yourself and that sounds like such a good plan to me.
No, he isn't an alcoholic. His only addiction is truly being a zombie sitting in front of the internet all day every day.
He hasn't worked at all this week. he did do something important to try to get work, but only at my urging.
I've had to pull him along at every single turn for the last year, on this issue. It's taken whole year to
get him back into a certain local government system, so he can work for them as a freelancer, because of
red tape and his reluctance to do anything but surf the internet.
So he might be getting more work now, if his mental fog due to blood pressure meds don't ruin that opportunity too.
I find I can't handle the anger any more. It looks like I have much to learn.
It sounds as if you feel stuck. There is nothing more frustrating.
What would he do if you were hit by a bus and laid up in the hospital for six months? If you were struck by a meteorite and killed? If you moved to the opposite side of the world?
Maybe one of those things is what needs to happen next.
Not telling you what to do, just throwing out that there may be more possibilities than there seem.
Generally people who are in certain dependent positions don't pull their own weight until they have to. It's very much in their interest (as they see it) to stay dependent. So they'll never be the ones to say "I can pull my own weight now! You can stop doing things for me!"
My SO is not a alcoholic either but he doesn't do nothing but play on the internet. Oh once in a while he will get up and do something but not much. I find he sleeps all day when I'm at work and is up all night. He is sick with being overweight, high blood pressure, diabetic and god knows what else. He is dying before my eyes and he's only 63. I finally started by letting go in regards to his health.....no more doing the work. If he doesn't get to the doctors or get his meds that's on him. I will not do it anymore. Next I will not try and cook good food for him.....he can fend for himself now. He was laid off from his job so he decided to retire also so now less money coming in....
Anyways is comes down to what am I going to do. Will I live with it or get a new life.
__________________
Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
Depression and dementia are tied together and this is even more so for older adult males. They often are way more at risk for becoming helpless lumps after a stroke or other form of dementia. This is partly because men are so defined by their jobs and achievement that once it is taken, even temporarily, they go through a huge crisis. Also, since they are not as adept as women at explaining or articulating feelings and working through them, this is what you see. Not sure how this info helps at all but I feel for you. The connection between depression and dementia is such that they feed into one another. Basically, the brain deteriorates when not challenged. If you throw in addiction...it's even worse.
To piggyback on PC's share: I knew a very good therapist who was also diagnosed with a particular type of schizophrenia. He shared with a group that the most loving thing his wife did for him when his disease was operative was to invite him to join her in something and when he said "no," she'd go about her business and leave him to his own sick self. He felt loved by her because she allowed him to be where he was and didn't try to make him do what she thought he should do to "get out of it" or "over it." It worked for them. Not sure if it will work for you but thought I'd share it.
@pinkchip: That is good to know, I've been wondering if maybe he's having difficulty adjusting to being forced to retire. He's always had mild depression issues, and found that taking St. John's Wort took care of it. Now he can't take that because of the meds he's taking. he doesn't want yet more meds with yet more side effects - the side effects we are dealing with now are already making life hard.
We had "the talk" yesterday. I tried to be nice, and I told him I don't want to leave the relationship, and that I will still help him with the normal things, just not his health or his business.
I said I'm not giving him any ultimatum because I know that doesn't work. This is hard, because he really can't do his own invoicing very well - he will make mistakes that he wouldn't have
before the stroke. Just last week I did an invoice for him, and it was wrong anyway because he didn't give me the correct information, so we had to correct it. And he corrected it and gave
it to me to check, and there were still several errors. If he had sent that out to the client, they probably would be saying to themselves that giving him business isn't worth the effort. And
this client thinks very highly of him.
I told him I won't do it any more, and he should hire someone to do his taxes, and also do his clerical work. I said if he started paying me to do his clerical work, then I would just
be saving that so that I'd have the ability to move out if his addiction gets to be too much for me.
Maybe that was kind of harsh? At least I didn't really lose it.....I was feeling so angry the night before last that I couldn't sleep well.
So, maybe he needs to get some therapy to get out of his slump? If he went to a stroke recovery support group, he'd probably come
out of it just thinking, "my god, I'm so lucky," but that probably wouldn't help him with his own slump.
@grateful2bee: I guess the thing is, if her husband said "no" to her invitation, they wouldn't be going down the financial sinkhole.
At least that what it sounds like.
The trigger for me, was one day this last weekend ( by weekend I mean Friday - Mon), I asked him he was going to do that day to get over his
internet addiction, and he just sloughed it off. He's always had issues with not really listening to me, when I tell him there's a problem.
Before my triggering even this weekend, we had had a conversation about how we can get him some work so that he doesn't have to do his own
marketing, and we thought that maybe he should give in and work for agencies. And maybe between working for the courts and working for agencies,
it can be almost like having a job again.
But there aren't many agencies where we live, and only a few of them offer his particular service. And I'd have to be the one to
figure out how he could apply for work, and do everything to get him set up. The problem with agencies is they really take
advantage, and really try to get away with everything they can to pay less than the going rate,etc. They are not fun to deal
with.
I think I have to give up even trying to help him apply to agencies.
In a way it doesn't make sense - we are going down the financial sinkhole, so I tell him he has to pay someone else to help him....
but I don't know what else I could have said about that.
Thank you so much everyone for your shares, and for not being judgmental.
I don't know their financial situation. Knowing folks with this mental illness, they do fine when they are stable. They can't function when they're not. Considering he was a therapist, I would assume that when he couldn't work, he also didn't get paid. How they handled that part of their relationship is unknown to me. If it were my relationship, knowing my husband or SO would periodically (and some point maybe permanently considering what the drugs do to the kidneys that patients' take) take a nosedive, I'd work. As my x's mental health deteriorated and the alcoholism progressed as well, it became apparent to my Mother (I was still in denial) that my x may never pay child support and that I was fighting a losing battle in pursuing him. I heard the wisdom of her insights. So, I turned over the need for support into the courts hands and worked 3 jobs until I found one that could support my children and I. My x died close to penniless when he was 51 years old. Had I continued to rely on him first as a wife and later as his children's mother for support, I could have gone down the financial tubes with him. It didn't matter what I said or what I did. My x was going to do what he was going to do. Mom was right. I was spinning my wheels in an effort to change him and change the way his brain processed things. I was powerless over him but not over me. It took me awhile to work through the initial poverty that did occur and diligence paid off for me and for my children.
) , I am doing what I think I "should" do based on what others may need. I am leaving me out of the equation. I have a few suggestions that might be helpful? Read John's post on "Detachment with Love". You did not mention alcohol addiction, however al anon would be helpful to know you cannot change him and his habits, but you can change yours to live a more serene life. Look at your situation as though you were looking at it through the eyes of a loving friend....what would that loving friend tell you? We all really know inside us what we need to do, but we don't like the knowing we have so we get all twisted up in our heads. Us humans are funny