What's best for kids - Al-Anon Family Group

oceanpine · Senior Member

What's best for kids

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Best is separating without sharing custody. This is the arrangement I have. A good lawyer could help advise you on how to make this happen. Don't assume that his getting any custody is inevitable.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi oceanpine, I dont know about studies. All I have is my 20 years experience of living with an alcoholic and bringing up children in an alcoholic home. If your looking for concrete evidence, facts and figures try searching google scholar. Not sure what your looking for, I get the feeling you dont know what to do and will only leave him or take action if all the facts and figures tell you to do so. I understand that. No one here will tell you to leave, we will tell you what it was like for us and how we made it better for ourselves, some leave, some stay. In my experience kids need a healthy thinking parent, even one. It wont be him but you can get yourself into alanon and learn the philosophy, in no time you will be behaving and thinking in a way that sets a good example to your kids and improves thinbs for everyone.

-- Edited by el-cee on Sunday 30th of November 2014 05:24:09 AM

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Even if you separate from him or divorce him, share or don't share custody, your children will still be in relationship with him. Al-Anon and Alateen will help all of you make the changes you can make that will be beneficial to you personally and as a family unit. When in doubt, don't is one of our slogans. If you're not sure that separation is the best option for you at this time, attending Al-Anon and encouraging the children if they are old enough to attend Alateen meetings would be the most conservative yet helpful option available to you. Disrespect towards their Dad who is a very sick man is not good for them or for him. Alateen will help with this and if they're too young for that program, Alanon will help you guide them in ways that can promote respect for their father without denying the fact that he has a life-threatening disease.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

It is good to be considering what is best for your kids. One thing I do know about alanon is that it would have you placing emphasis on what is best for you. If you make decisions that are best for you and that are spiritually sound, everyone is going to benefit. Nobody will benefit from you being miserable.

Often times it seems folks come into alanon with long lists for not changing (and this doesn't necessarily mean not leaving their qualifier). The reasons typically include other people and things that are not themselves. It is honorable and good to sacrifice for your kids, but not to sacrifice your happiness, peace of mind, joy, and serenity. If I felt that my mom did that for me, I would hate myself.

So while considering your kids is a factor...and it should be, please do not underemphasize or fail to give credence to what YOU want and need. That is normal and okay to do. To thine own self be true.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Would your life be better not having to live like that in your home? At least if and when they do not want to go anymore they don't have to.

we can control the visitation to a pointI refused to allow it to happen. I would fight to the death to keep my kids away from that. I did keep them away. got a restraining order that kept him away 10 years. NO way was I allowing them to go thru what he did with his father. no way.

Now I am a very protective mother to kids and animals. Just my nature. Was not beat down and had a very good upbringing and family. not everyone has that.

still for me what I have seen in my life and hundreds of kids lives....I don't believe in kids being put in the position of unhappiness and unsafe situations.

glad · ~*Service Worker*~

My young adult daughter said to me "Mom, didn't you know I wasn't going to love myself the way you loved me... I was going to love myself the way I saw you love yourself...

Now that both my daughters are adults and I did end the marriage when they were older teenagers, we have still have issues with holidays and his new wife.

To me there is no good time or way to separate... but when I did I at least could be in charge of what happened in my home and life and try to be a healthy happy person. if your like me and looking for a way that will be positive and good for everyone.. that is for the Dad to step up and change... in my case it was not going to happen so therefore I knew it was going to be a bad situation living with him.. at least when separated it's only bad part of the time in different ways.

It helped when I realized that no matter what my parents or other family members thought I was not the bad guy, it was not my fault.. I did the only thing I could do to make it better even if it was not an ideal solution. I did not have the power to provide the ideal solution.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Your share is wonderful, Glad, so well said. Your daughters comment says it all.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree Glad Excellent response.

This is a no win situation.
The truth is that they have been affected by the disease no matter which one you choose. The best we can do is to focus on yourself and trust the process.

If you leave for the children, who knows how they will process this and down the road blame you for abandoning the marriage and Dad (as my son did ). If you stay they will develop negative coping skills unless , one healthy parent finds recovery and begins to heal.
Keep showing up and using alanon

Luiza · Senior Member

I can only share my own experience.

For a long time I was afraid to leave, afraid of being alone, afraid of being a single mother, afraid of shared custody, afraid of visitation days, afraid of everything. Also hopeful that once day things would change and improve.
Then I realised that I wasn't being a good role model to my daughter and her happiness is dependent on my own happiness. I was miserable. I was setting up my daughter to failure by living in a dysfunctional household and learning about relationship by the example of my dysfunctional marriage. And I realised that I was the one who needed to make the change happens.
It took me a long time to come to this conclusion and get there in the end but not having the disease in my home is a blessing and I am grateful for it every single minute.

I love Glad's daughter's comment. So true.

giraffe13 · Senior Member

I really like hotrod and pink chips posts. I don't have children, but my mom told me she grew up with an alcoholic father. (I never met him). She said they found his behavior "annoying," and one time pulled him out of the house, all of them and yelled at him in the driveway. They had enough. He got sober through a work intervention. My grandmother was the good stable parent, and my mother never drank in her life as a result of that and married the complete opposite. The rest of the siblings turned out not so stable. We don't really ever see or talk to them.

On the other hand, my good friend has 2 kids, 1 in college the other working, and they grew up with A father who fought sobriety on and off whole childhood. They are both healthy and happy individuals. I know them both well. One has a great job and is engaged and mom said she felt during the marriage she worked hard to keep them from suffering the effects of fully "experiencing" his drinking. She said she hid how often it affected her b.c she wanted them to have a normal home. I don't know what that means or how that would work, but I just wanted to share two totally different outcomes I have seen.

Like hotrod said, it can turn out so many different ways. I'd say ask for spiritual guidance, and when the time comes to make that decision you will just *know.* Like pink chip said, you will know also what is right for you. You have to be there for the kids, so I would think doing what keeps you happy and sane and what is good for you is ultimately also good for them. Can understand how caught you must feel. big hug.

aquamom23 · Senior Member

Hiya Ocean Pine. In the social sciences,we are taught that the questions frame the answers. In psychology, it is acknowledged that variables influence the end results,thus variables must be controlled to obtain definitive results where possible. There is also debate ongoing about the role of bias in research, which ties in to the first point of questions framing answers. A researcher usually sets out to prove or dispeove a theory. My beleif is Tha anyone determined enough can prove or disprove anything and ultimately it becomes an intellectual concept divorced of the human aspect.whether one subscribes to science or spirit,it is a fact we were given eyes to see,ears to hear and a heart to feel in conjunction with our brains.These are wonderful blessings if we allow them to be.I did not find much support within the academic world for the role of parenting nor the realities of addiction.when I say parenting I really mean mothering.i choose not to let academia be my higher power by denying what has been my lived truth.

aquamom23 · Senior Member

oh and in regards to blame, my then six year old son came home one day from a visit and asked me why I married his father. I told him I didn't. Then why did you have me, he asked. Because I wanted you and I loved you very much I told him. He told me I was selfish and he hated his father. That little boy is still my heart. The point is,life is never perfect and id take all the blame if it eased his pain,though he and I have yet to cross that road. There's some good advice here,re custody,and yes whatever you do they are going to be affected. One healthy parent is so much more than a lot of us get. Whether you are there or not,he will be weird. Not an easy road either way. I do believe progress beats the merry go round of insanity though,and wish you strength.

oceanpine · Senior Member

Well, Aquamom, I agree with you and thank you for that reminder. I probably sounded a little silly asking about studies, but I had just spent a long time browsing through this board, and had read a number of posts that made me realize how much research some members here have done on the topic of alcoholism, etc... and I haven't... just pretty mainstream reading... and my thoughts went from there, wondering if there was something I should know about kids in these situations.

To everyone, I actually would rather hear anybody's ESH on this topic, so please do share if you feel like it, and thanks to those who did share your experiences or shares about kids who have lived through this.

I am somewhat confused in trying to figure out what is best. I have been told that what is best for me will be what's best for the kids, as they need a sane mother. I feel like what is best for me is a break from this situation. But I also have a nagging feeling that I only feel this way because I have failed. I know I don't cause it and can't control or cure it, but I feel like I have failed in being a patient, kind and compassionate partner. I have not treated my H with much kindness over this past year, in part because he lives in so much denial that it exasperates me. I have also been told I should get the hell out for the kids' sake, regardless of what I think I want or what my hopes of repair are. This last I was told be my previous counselor, who is a very wise woman who lived through, and stuck with, a marriage to an A. So for her to hear my story and say she didn't believe we had the elements that would make it work, made a big impact. I am a funny bird in that I tend to be really rational and live by my head rather than heart, but I am also ruled by my feelings, i.e., forgetting they are just feelings, and acting on them like they are reality. Which makes for constantly shifting ground under your feet. I do try to honor my gut feelings, but they are pretty messed up after living with unidentified A behavior for some time. As I mentioned in a previous post, my fight/flight is so activated that I am not sure what is genuine fear vs over stimulation.

The past two nights, my AH has awakened me and startled the hell out of me. Both times, I was asleep, and in the middle of the night, he walked in. He is sleeping in a room on a different floor, and we had said goodnight hours before, so there was no reason for him to come in. The first time I awoke out of deep sleep and was so startled, it took a long time to get back to sleep. Last night, I told him how I had felt about that, and asked him to please not come in a room if I was sleeping. He agreed. Three hours later, at 1:30 am, he opened the door. When I yelled, what are you doing?! he said he was checking on me. I never went back to sleep - my body went into overdrive stress. So now it's 8:30 am and I'm going to try to sleep for awhile.

anyhow, thanks for input and I do value and want personal experience over studies! ;)

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

When it gets to the disease showing up while I'm sleeping, that's the time I'd put locks on my door or erect other boundaries designed to keep myself safe and the disease out. My x used to hit me while I was sleeping and of course blamed it on his dreams, etc. Who cares the reason? I was being hit while I was sleeping. I moved rooms and although I can't remember installing locks on that bedroom door, I do remember finding a way to put him outside the house and away from me especially during the most vulnerable time for me - as I slept. If your A is walking in on you while you sleep, what might he be doing as your children are sleeping? There is no rhyme or reason to this disease's way of thinking. You won't be able to expect that just because you say you don't like it, the disease will care or honor your boundaries. I know this because he walked into your room after you separated yourself from him by going to another room and after telling him you don't want him coming into the room when you are sleeping. We learn to pay attention to the A's behavior and not to the words the A speaks. An A will say all sorts of things which they may very well mean at the time they say it and then do something entirely different than what they say as you have experienced. What other boundaries may you be able to establish that will ensure that you get the rest you need in peace and safety?

-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 1st of December 2014 10:49:46 AM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 1st of December 2014 11:59:06 AM

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Every situation is different and this is really one where choices need to be made by you from a place of clarity and strength, unless there is fear being evoked by your spouse. If fear is present, then, I believe it is best to live in separate residences with the children. Are you feeling safe? Are your children safe? If you and your children are safe, then perhaps you have some time to become grounded in al anon, so you gain the strength and clarity to make a choice you know to be the right choice, for now. The beauty of each new day is we get to make different choices, just for today.

It is true, that you cannot have an intimate union with another if there are addictions, however, if you are ok with that, you might be able to figure out a way to make it work for you until you choose something different. Living with an addict/alcoholic not in recovery doesn't work for me. I wish you the best...

-- Edited by PP on Monday 1st of December 2014 11:39:02 AM

Mari1978 · Senior Member

I believe Glad has posted a powerful message. I also had to spend time thinking about how the A's in my life treated me. Did I want that for my daughters?

I remember when A would randomly do absurd things like leave and then show up after he was asked to find somewhere else to live. He brought a stranger to the house once at night while the children were sleeping and wanted to show this guy his kids. He walked right in and stood at their bedroom doors with this stranger and I thought I was going to get sick. I had never felt more vulnerable and alarmed by someone's absurd behaviour. My eldest daughter is 12. I asked them both to leave because I didn't want them to wake the children. I really had to keep my cool. There could have been a very horrible outcome from that situation and I thank God everyday he was there protecting us from the disease.

Fact: Alcoholism is a progressive and deadly disease. There is no chance that it will get better when the qualifier continues to use.

It has been a challenging journey and I am grateful to have had found Alanon when I did. Using the Alanon tools and having others E/S/H that comes along with the program, I am much happier and healthier. My children are also benefitting from the changes I have made. There will always be challenges on the horizon but I am now better equipped with the tools needed to deal with them. Children learn what they live. When they become adults they have choices. Our most influential teachable moments are in how we choose to live.It is also my hopes that I am able to guide my children by practicing compassion. Separate the disease from the man. Love them but do not suffer with them.

Welcome to MIP!

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

There is some powerful feedback here. I hear what your saying, the research bit threw me. I left my ex because it got really bad. If I had gotten alanon earlier I would have left earlier but the damage has been done. Its not only done by the drinker, we do damage too. We set a poor example a lot of the time. Well, I know I did, I accepted unacceptable behaviour over and over again and kids are pretty clued up on whats acceptable and not and they look to us to say no, im not having this and when we dont they learn we cant be trusted to keep them safe and provide a stable family home. This chaotic home becomes normal for them and often they seek the chaos for themselves later on, maybe find an alcoholic of their own or in my case my son has kept the family drinking gene going. Like father, like son. It all gets repeated. They do learn what they live and then they live it themselves. The best thing I did for my kids was get into alanon, now im setting a pretty good example. I only wish I had done it while they were little but thats useless thoughts that dont help at all.

Luiza · Senior Member

Oh yes. I know well how awful it is to be awaken at night. He did it for years. Even though he has moved out now, sometimes when drunk he calls me 10 times in a row (usually at 2am), or live a few txt messages or a few voice mails. Obviously my phone is on silent and it doesn't disturb my sleep but this is him trying to wake me up all over again. I will never understand the reasons why he feels the need to do it, specially because when we were both awake and he were sober, he would ignore me and being distant for most of the time.

I sleep like an angel now thank God.

aquamom23 · Senior Member

Hijacking el-cees reply....had a brilliant beautiful counsellor years ago, she dedicates her career to the families affected by addiction ,having lived it herself. A quote re kids " what children see,they learn,what they learn,they practice,what they practice,they become".sobering isn't it? I'm with you ocean pine. The heart is slower than the head for me.(())

Kerrymom · Senior Member

Just wanted to say thank you for this post and all of the ESH - it's very timely for me right now

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Ocean we all have to start somewhere and Al-Anon is full of real experiences as is show on this board and this post. My experience in part includes a sponsee who brought his two young children to meetings where they could at least be in the sane and stable atmosphere of family in recovery. They listened and he bought them Alateen literature. Today with that early influence they are more well informed and have great personal tools that they use no matter what is going on in their lives and/or if their addict/alcoholic mother is making contact. From being a former Alateen sponsor I recognize changes that the Alateen fellowship also made which put their lives back into balance. It will never be perfect for them or for us and they will have the power of your support and the Al-Anon fellowship also if you all so choose. Remember that they have a very large social network that they are often with who may not have solutions that will work whether at school or other clubs and such. Learning about alcoholism and addiction and how to live sanely in spite of it often time seems like rocket science and they can get it. Kids change faster than adults because they don't have as much time in the problem with bad habits as we do. When they change it is great to witness. In support (((((hugs))))) smile

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.