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He isn't going to stop until his nasty tone of voice bothers him and he chooses to do something about it. You didn't cause it. You can't change it. You can't cure it. Quit taking it personally (something I still have to practice, practice, practice because I operate on a personal level with others) is a good reminder to me. Another thing that helps me is making an assets list that might even include affirming myself because I didn't reach out and slap him when the kid in me wanted to do that or accidentally drop a paper weight on his hand. I've also wrestled with needing to drop expectations that went something like this: "If I speak lovingly or do something kind with or for the other, then they will respond in kind." That isn't always true with somebody who is filled with fear, guilt, shame and self-loathing. I'd like it to be true and my experience is that it isn't always true. My x always accused me of cheating. I wasn't cheating and hadn't even met some of the folks he accused me of having affairs with at the time. No matter what I did to reassure him, he wasn't reassured. I finally gave up on doing anything to reassure him so that he would change his mind and see how much I loved him. He couldn't change his mind or behave any differently at the time. He was too sick. That wasn't my problem. My problem was to remind myself that I wasn't the woman he saw me to be. I was very, very different even if only I and my HP knew that.
You can't stop him, and I am sorry you can't stop him. The 3 c's are golden here...you do not cause his nastiness, you cannot control it and you cannot cure it. Hurt people hurt people, try not take it personally. That is hard, as this is a raw time. We are here....
I am sorry M I know that I found that I was giving my power away to others by allowing them to affect how I ws feeling.
If his tone of voice upsets you, detach, say the serenity prayer and validate yourself in the conversation. For example once he finishes speaking in his angry voice, I would calmly state, I am a professional, intelligent organized person and capable of making wise choices.
As others have stated we are powerless over others but not over ourselves. Good luck
Thank you all for your wisdom. I can not wait for the no contact but it might Be awhile if we need to sell our property to settle. I am healing every day away From him with hp help. AH is even using that tone of voice in front if his new AA gf That he lives with now.
It is how he relates to me now from a very bad place in his soul. I say he lives on The dark side now. It is how i feel about him and his giving into to his addictive Personality even though he is dry. His mind and soul are wrapped up in darkness. I realize it is the disease progressing and him not really doing his emotional sobriety In AA. He can not face his true inner self and be honest. He would need to face that He is abusive and also so is his mother. He keeps running to momna and she keeps Enabling him, this behavior has been going on for 11 years. It is so sick! it is trully A family disease.
-- Edited by Mirandac on Sunday 9th of November 2014 10:28:33 AM
Pleas dont speak to me that way, if you continue I will... hang up, leave. Do it every single time and he 2ill get the message. Only you habe the power to stop hurting, not him.
If my x spoke to me in front of the unwanted girlfriend in my life as yours speaks to you, at first I might feel embarrassed and humiliated. Those feelings could activate my own shame as if it is my fault that he is acting from his own shame. If I could just let those feelings be there and realize they are only feelings and certainly not an indictment of my value, my beauty, my worth as a woman and as a human being unless I believe they are, I could choose to believe that my existence is a gift of love whether he can see that or not. I could then choose to be that gift of love with people who are open to it rather than fight to be it with people who are blind to it. I can't open another person's heart no matter how hard I bang on the door of it. I can only take myself in the direction my HP leads me and walk through the doors my HP opens for me to be the gift of love I am with people who can receive me and I can receive them, too. I can treat myself with dignity and respect no matter how poorly another person behaves for whatever reasons they have when I recognize my own value, worth and beauty as a woman and as a human being with gifts and with limits that my HP can utilize for good in my life and in the life of the persons S/He leads me to.
Sometimes the best you can do is be grateful for all the ways we can communicate without having to talk to someone. My ex got pretty angry at me because I refused to give him my new cell number, but he would call and ruin my day and it was so nice to NOT have that happen anymore. When he was particularly nasty, I would just walk away and tell him I didn't have to talk to him nasty anymore. of course, when he tried to be nice and sweet talk me, I told him he didn't get to be nice anymore either! When I had to deal with him, I usually ranted to myself in my car on the drive away from him, ranting to let the poison out so it wouldn't hurt so much.
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
I will try that. I can think of alot of things afterward but
During the stabbing hurt and pain takes over my very being.
I feel like a deer caught in headlights, I draw into myself for
Self protection from his abuse.
The more Al-Anon and divorce support and inner work you do, the less power the attitudes and behaviors of others will have in your life and the less salt can be poured into your open wounds. Until that time comes, it is wise to protect yourself from his disease.
El cee I will try that. I can think of alot of things afterward but During the stabbing hurt and pain takes over my very being. I feel like a deer caught in headlights, I draw into myself for Self protection from his abuse.
thank you all for your comments and support. It is just something
i keep having to deal with. he can do nice and good things. He takes
care of things here when i am tied up or busy. It is just his tone
and attitude toward me that are so beyond bad. Most are his own
issues and guilt and shame. His momma filled him up with both
I have noticed that AH thinks that he is speaking normally, even when his voice is raised.
I have in the past said 'I'm sorry, could you say that again? I have trouble hearing you when your voice is raised.' His voice also gets a bit quieter if I put my hand on his knee. So sad.
Grateful .... I really liked your ESH. That was very well written and explained the process that happens well. It makes it easier to make a conscious choice when it is explained like that
I have to fight on so many levels to keep myself sane
And to keep going forward. Work,my mother, MIL and
My ah. They all seem to want to suck the life blood from
Me. It is very draining to have to protect yourself all the
Time. I am a very peaceful person, i need stability and
Normalness not chaos and confusion. But that seems to
Be what i got to deal with. I pray for my serenity.
Mirandac: Are you absolutely certain you have to spend any time at all with your x or his mother? I can see where you would need to relate to folks at work and maybe your Mom - but he and his mother? Seems like two draining personalities that might stop sucking the life blood from you if you don't relate to them in any way at all. I'm not there. I can't see. I just see one woman floundering with two anchors that can be cut away from her by refusing to relate to them with no justification, argument, defense or explanation for not returning calls, reading texts or letting them into your front door.
No i do not need to deal with my MIL one on one. But she is
A big player in this drama and situation with her son and I. Yes
I do need to deal with my ah for awhile longer until we settle.
I try very hard not to need to talk to him about anything but
We just went thru a week of contact and it was not really pleasant.
Mostly we maintain no contact as the rule. We are going to mediation
Soon that will be interesting. I really just wish he could act like a
Normal human being and not be nasty toward me but i guess that is not
Going to happen in the near future.
My mother does try to suck the life blood out of me. I try not to talk
To her that much if i can help it. Even about the divorce. Sorry to be
Dramatic even when i am clear of ah and mil i still have my mother
Whom is the worst of the three. She just plays games. I keep giving
Her boundaries but she really doesnt like them. One day at a time!
I keep trying to limit her. She is not supportive really, she thinks
She is and wants to be part of this. But she is really trying to
Control and micromanage me. She needs to go back to alanon,
I have told her that. She went for 20 years but she did not have her
Ears and mind open to learning anything.
Her comment is they dont understand in alanon. She is probably
Talking about her enabling ways among other things. People probably
Were calling her on her behaviors and thoughts.
I really appreciate your wisdom and caring grateful.
I was just grumbling and trying to Deal with my merry band of abusers.
I am much stronger than i Was emotionally. Crying and releasing my
pain and hurt has been Huge. Divorce care for opening up my soul. I feel
My soul peeking out looking to see if its safe to come out and be
Released. Its not ready yet because it is not safe to come out, i still need
To be in self protective mode. I am too easy going, live and let live
Approach to life.
My dry ah still uses his nasty tone of voice when he speaks to me.
how do i get him to stop. I try very hard to stay away from him and
he does likewise. We write notes if needed or text but once in a awhile
we still need to speak.
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He isnt' going to stop until he gets into AA, works the program long enough to get to the AMENDS part and maybe even then he won't stop.....I had this w/my EX AH#1 and i just tuned him out......with people now?? who are nasty, I let them know I don't appreciate it and this is what i will do if it continues (distance myself or disconnect all together) but i make sure I am willing and able to stand to that boundary
Its tough when you "have to" due to legalities be in their presence, but program has taught me a lot about detaching..letting go...not taking it personal.....all of that....hang in there and keep coming back ok??? it will work out in the end if ya keep working on you
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Ah is in AA for the last 3 years just not really emotionally sober.
He started his recovery but too many bad things he needed to
Face stopped him.#1 ABUSE" He will need to come to terms someday
With that But momma is the same and she keeps enabling him.Protect
the family disease at all costs.
Ah is in AA for the last 3 years just not really emotionally sober. He started his recovery but too many bad things he needed to Face stopped him.#1 ABUSE" He will need to come to terms someday With that But momma is the same and she keeps enabling him.Protect the family disease at all costs.
ohhh yea, ABUSE...something i have really wrestled with the 12 going on 13 years for me in recovery, but my saving grace was accepting it as a fact, not denying it and "yea, this happened to me and this is what it did to me" but still, i feel for anyone who experiences it and it takes 4ever to work through IF the survivor even works through it...I will probably, not under my power, anyway, recover 100% but i am gonna give it my best shot.....whatever it is not your problem or responsibility and i do hope that you can go your own way, soon......alanon meetings are a great place to start in getting grooved into this wonderful, supportive and informative program....no shrink in the world has given me the help that sharing w/my peers in alanon has given me......I do hope you stick w/us and remember...You are NOT alone...You got company who cares....IN SUPPORT
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Mirandac he will do it because he knows he can, and he will continue to do it if he thinks it's hurting you. That seems to be his ultimate goal right now. Sounds as though momma is not helping him at all. I like what el-cee said or maybe say something like "when you speak to me in a respectful manner, I'll be more than happy to talk with you."
I would set a boundary and stick to it. Eventually he'll get the message.
Take care of you,
It works if you work it.
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Look for the rainbow after the storm, and I'm sending you a double dose of HOPE. H-hold O-on P-pain E-ends
Thank you both for your replies. He usually does it in such
A sneaky way. Its not every time. This has been going in for
Three years this disrespectful attitude of his. Its like a monster
Invaded his body and mind.
I know what you mean by the sneaky abuse, undermining, passive-agressive actions and tone of voice. It is very nasty.
Sadly they can pick and chose when to behave that way and outside people seldom understand the extent the abuse and the damage that this behaviour causes on the target.
In support (((hugs)))
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Sometimes the smallest step in the right direction ends up being the biggest step of your life. Tip toe if you must but take the step.
I must say Miranda, you are a great example of reaching out and getting help for yourself. You take suggestions and, while it still seems hard, I do see you getting better. You were stunned, miserable and wounded to the core months ago. Now you are saying you wish your soon to be ex just wasn't so nasty in his tone of voice in your dealings. This is a lot less of an issue than feeling the way you did right? Keep working it!
Thank you all for your wisdom. I am getting better every day the grieving process
Is very helpful you cry a lot but you start to heal slowly. My marriage turned into
A toxic relationship. I had some part of it but it was done with such
Venegence from my dry ah. All to be in control and to take my power away. I can
Not forgive him any of that. I realize its his disease but he made a conscience
Sober decision to be cruel and abusive to his wife and enlisted his momma.
I probably am like alot of people here you had many good years then wham your
Life and marriage are upside down. Starting to get filled with darkness and badness
That has no place in a normal home or life. You no longer get up smiling and happy.
You are Filled full of apprehension and fear, that is not living.
Yes luiza that is exactly how he acted and he has been dry for 30 years. That behavior
Started 3 years ago. Its is emotional and verbal abuse and it is very sneaky, it
Cuts you to your very core which is the reason for it. To put you in the one down
Position. Crazymaking!
Thanks pink i always love your replies. I appeciate the encouragement i keep
Trying. This emotional stuff is very hard to deal with.
Thank you everyone on MIP for being so helpful and caring in my emotional
Recovery journey
Mirandac: I've given a little thought to your issues with your Mom - most especially that she isn't very supportive although she thinks she is.
One of the frustrating things for me as a Mom has been not knowing how to be supportive in ways that work with my kids at times or not being supported in ways that work for me with others. Part of that has been my belief that I needed to be a mind reader and that others needed to read my mind, too. I have learned to ask my children if they want me to listen, give feedback or something else that would be helpful to them. Most of the time, my son (when he isn't asking for money that I won't give or asking me to do for him what is his business to do) will say that he just needs me to listen to him. My daughter wants listening or listening with feedback only. I have also learned to say: Thank you for caring and it would be more helpful to me if you could blah, blah, blah. Trying to figure out the support somebody wants or needs is an exercise in futility for me. Expecting others to know what kind of support I want or need without saying it, is also an exercise in futility for me and for them.
I don't know if what I've learned is true for me would be helpful to you, but I did want to share it with you for what it might be worth to you.
I will think about it grateful. You are a normal mother mine
Is not. She keeps trying to control me especially now since
My husband is not in the picture. He has been my protection
From her for years. I guess it is my turn to stick up more for
myself. She doesn't like boundaries, i keep giving her plenty
But she thinks its my emotional state not her behaviors.
I'm a recovering codependent, sister. I, too, have tried to control much to my chagrin. My love for my children and my grandson has helped me see what I have needed to see and even now, they can react to me - sometimes because of their memory of this scared mother who was always afraid they'd get hurt or die and did my best to "protect them" when protecting them was the last thing I needed to do and sometimes because "there I go again." I do have to say that I do respect my kids boundaries when I recognize them and they both have to tell me what those are because I don't do subtle well. I need facts as in: "Mom, right now I need to spend time by myself," or "Mom, I just need you to listen to me," or "Nana, no thank you. I don't want to spend the night with you this weekend."
And to be realistic - sometimes it is my kids' emotional state and not my behaviors that are troublesome to them. My daughter has learned to say: "Mom, I'm not stupid. Mom, that isn't what is bothering me. Mom, I don't need.....blah, blah, blah. I need.....blah, blah, blah." And sometimes, she is just plain ole grouchy and defensive and it has nothing to do with me or she wants to be right. When she is grouchy and defensive, I keep quiet knowing it will pass. When she wants to be right, I have learned to say, "You're right, honey. You're very, very right." Usually, her need to be right also passes and she laughs. I taught her how to be "right." Now, we're both learning how to be loving with each other. I credit that growth on my part to Al-Anon. Maturity has helped my daughter.
I applaud your insights in seeing that your husband has been a buffer for you and now it appears it is time to relate with your Mom in new ways if that is what you are choosing to do? Regardless, I see you growing through so much. Here for you and glad you're here.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 10th of November 2014 10:42:50 AM
Miranda I agree you have grown tremendously in these past weeks good work. I have reflected on the subject of the tone of other people's voices and keep coming back to the Al-Anon principle that:" I am responsible"I am responsible for how I act, how I react to others, my feelings and my life. There is a page in the ODAT that explains that it is not what happens to us in life but how we respond to it that counts in the long run. Learning how to respond to negative situations, negative people, the negative voices, negative judgments are all a part of using the simple tools that Al-Anon provided for me. I had to first realize that by giving my power away to others I was hurting myself and that other people's opinions and judgments of me and my actions held no meaning. What other people think of me was none of my business. Detaching from mom and not expecting her to change also works well here.
Al-Anon has also told me that I do not have to take on others anger but can stay inside my own self and nurture my feelings myself. I can calm myself down if I feel anxious and then respond and not react in a calm meaningful fashion. The Courage to Change also points out that we cannot become like the alcoholic and turn into a judgmental, angry, vindictive person by attempting to protect ourselvesand respond in kind. Detaching is a key to allowing it to begin with me. I carried a Q-tip around with me often to remind me to quit taking it all personally. Validating who we are, not participating in Jade also helps
moms will be mom and detaching and loving her anyway is a gift you can give yourself
Thank you both for your wisdom. I am trying to decide how to handle
My mother. I Really dont need my mother to keep pushing but she is relentless
In her pursuit of her position in my life. I have always dreaded her phone
Calls, our relationship is better now more controlled but not what i want
Or need at this time. She feels she is being patient but she is very needy
Woman that wont reach out beyond her own little circle. No more alanon
Mtgs wont go to the senior center just up the road. Tries to live thru
Her children and her bf. It is very tiresome and burdening to all of us
That speak to her.
I take the loving wisdom i need from Other woman that nurture me not
harm me. My soul and emotions are very fragile and need protection
from abuse of Any kind.
I do keep my voice the same with my ah, i always use my upbeat and happy tone. I find
I call him honey when i hear his voice. That needs to change but so does my
Whole thinking pattern where he is concerned. I think i will change my
Last name., go no contact. He is so much a part of me it rips me apart
To be treated this way by my own husband. It is what it is now. I accept
That but it hurts like crazy. I think i will carry a qtip.
Wow you are getting great MIP ESH here and MIP has rallied for you and I hear you open and receiving the tools. Boundaries are hard, but keep me sane, owning my power keeps me from getting hurt, and self care keeps me growing. I hear you listening and learning all 3 of these great tools and becoming more aware. I am glad you are here with us! Sending you love and support on your journey~!
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
Thank you for this topic. I've gained a lot of wisdom from everyone's ESH.
Miranda, when my A talks to me with that crabby tone of voice, I say to him, if you want to speak to me about something you talk to me in a normal tone of voice or don't talk to me at all. If his attitude doesn't change in the next sentence, I walk away. I won't deal with that from him. I do the same thing with my kids. I've explained to them, talking to me or a teacher or anyone with that sharp tone in their voice is disrespectful and it's not necessary. I'll ask them, what have I done to deserve being treated like that from you? They need to know that it's not nice and no one likes being treated with disrespect.
This is also a two way street. I can get very annoyed at A and my sharp tone wants to boil out but I'm getting much better at staying relaxed, not getting caught up in his disease, and taking the time to think before I act or speak. I feel empowered when I don't stoop to his level and I feel like a successful mother when I lead by example for my kids.
Thank you both. It is about owning your own power,
I am trying very hard to get it all back!
I have not had to talk to my ah since then but we do have
Mediation on monday. It will be interesting what
He proposes. He will try to sucker me in some way.
He does not want to sell and he can not buy me out.
I pray for strength! I am getting stronger the longer
I am away from ah, four months now. I am not totally
out of the abuse But it is mild to what it was. He is living
With his gf that is emotional abuse and when we speak
He has nasty tone of voice that is verbal abuse. It is
Who he has become now toward me. Its on him!
Hopefully next time i will just hang up or tell him that is
Abuse! Stop!
