Is this my ego? - Al-Anon Family Group

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Is this my ego?

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Listening, MW, and the only thing that comes to me is when in doubt, don't - that - and the "that was then and this is now" wisdom that you shared in your post.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear milkwood, you have posed a great question and I appreciate your presentation and clarity. I love the Al-Anon definition of EG0 --- Easing God Out. I do believe that when I was married to a person with the disease of alcoholism , I attempted to protect myself from their judgment by living in denial and pretend. This led me to feeling alone, and disconnected from reality and others. Attending Al-Anon face-to-face meetings honestly sharing who I was and what I needed enabled me to let go of the destructive tools I was using and begin slowly to pick up living in the reality of the 11th step and trusting HP. I believe the most important step in this process was working the steps and discovering my part in the situation and correcting it.

I truly believe that practicing the Al-Anon program enabled me to go within, find my truth, connect with my spiritual self and then reach out and connect with others with kindness, respect, honesty, openness and willingness. This connection works in all my affairs even the intimate ones. A 30 year relationship deserves the respect of using different tools to accomplish your goals. Good luck

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

I am trying to figure out why I would like AH and I to be able to talk openly about stuff (not alcohol related stuff btw). The fact that we can't means that I keep my barriers up and I am not addressing my 'what would I like to do with my life' questions.

Is it just an ego thing on my part (in which case I would want to deal with that)? Or is it to do with what I need in order to trust in a relationship (in which case I would like the courage to honour that need)?

This is a rich inquiry, Milkwood and it takes courage to address. This is where I was prior to my separation, so, if I may, I will address my little piece of my experience. My actions came after many visits with an addiction counselor, al anon and sponsorship. My ego kept me away from those tools and the pain within my soul brought me to them. When I stopped easing God out, I came to know that it is a basic human need to have open conversations with people we love, there was nothing wrong with me for needing that connection. I learned I had the goods to engage in intimate conversations with another human being. I was not as flawed as I thought for not having that in my marriage...I was married to a man not in recovery and unable to engage in that level of intimacy. If I wanted to be hurt or argue, I would try and have those connected, relational conversations with him. I could not trust that my thoughts and feelings would be honored, valued or welcomed, so they were shared with others that would/could respond in a healthy way.

When I came to a place where looking ahead and seeing what I was living with and accepted that this is what I would be living with, I opted to take the risks for a different life which meant me saying lovingly and strongly, "I am no longer going to live with your addictions, you need to move out". This was my point of surrendering to what was, letting go and turning my the results over to God. I had no way to sustain myself financially, but I was willing to release my fears of survival and my concerns for how our children and grandchildren would be affected.

As it turned out, he entered into recovery and has stayed with it. We now have intimate, connecting conversations and, for the most part (we have had hiccups), my (and his) thoughts and feelings are honored, valued and welcomed. It is true for us that "it works if we work it and we are worth it".

You, too, have the goods to engage in intimate conversations. Being lonely in a relationship hurts our hearts. (((Milkwood)))

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

May I ask you a question Hotrod?

You say that a 30 year relationship deserves the respect of using different tools

Can I ask what you were thinking of as you wrote that?

I might be misunderstanding you here. My tools for 30 years have been a light touch, respect, letting things go, and of course I was putting the needs of others before my own needs, for which I felt rewarded the majority of the time. However, I had exciting work and, on the whole, led a good and self supporting life. I think that those tools worked well before alcohol came into our lives.

Then I felt taken advantage of, unsupported and used. I suspect that AH's affair engaged my ego! I suspect that it is my ego that needs a few strokes to put it back in its box! I also suspect that an ego does have some uses from time to time, but I don't want mine to be running my life!!

I have subsequently felt as if I did not look after myself or value my own self esteem as much as I would have liked and I don't want to go back to that again. At the moment I generally glide along in neutral, which, from time to time, undermines my own integrity.

For this reason I am not backing down from a question that I have asked AH today. It is not a question that should cause him any shame, just something that he raised but left hanging. It feels to me like another nugget of that disconnect that you mention and I would like to hit it out of the ballpark - Shucks, I guess I need him to pitch!!!

I can let his refusal to engage go, it is not important to me whether I know the answer to this question or not, but his refusal to follow through and engage on something that I have asked does matter to me. I chose to stay through difficult times, and things have improved over the past year, but when I look at the present I am still not seeing or feeling trust, openness, mutual care - the things that I had hoped for and considered us worth fighting for (yes, I did have expectations). I feel as though I am standing in the way of letting either of us benefit from those good feelings by staying.

To my mind, thinking that I want a particular outcome for this small question does not seem to be very respectful of our 30 year relationship. I can hear myself thinking 'let go and let god,' but what if this is god giving me an opportunity to either make a small change or see another glimpse of reality?

(Sorry Hotrod, this turned out longer than just my question!)

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh Paula, you sweetheart - I've been meaning to ask you what your experience was on this for a couple of days. (((((Hugs))))) Thank you so much.

I know what you mean about releasing those fears of survival - you know that jiggering dance that a kitten does before it pounces? I've worn a hole in the carpet on that one haven't I!!

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

What you need in a marriage is what you need, MW. I read that it is important to you for him to follow through and engage on something that matters to you. How do you feel when he doesn't follow through? Do you notice that you move away from him or closer to him? I don't need answers to those questions and I do wonder if the answers if you haven't already shared them with him are a good beginning to expressing yourself and not shoving things under the rug for you? He may respond - or not - but you will have said what is true for you.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 9th of November 2014 10:29:46 AM

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

I do appreciate that you shared your processing of the situation and have also shared the tools that you have used in order to maintain your current lifestyle. I see nothing wrong with these tools as long as you are happy and content. However if you feel you need more in the relationship ,the new tools that I would suggest would be; letting go of expectations(expectations are just a resentment waiting to happen), I would validate my needs by asking for what I wanted. I know that in my marriage I thought my husband should be able to read my mind and grant my every desire because that is when I did for him.

Al-Anon taught me to ask what I needed and that we are all different and human. I lived in denial and pretend to maintain my relationship. My new relationship now that my husband' past is very different. I ask what I need, I accept the person for whom they are and let go of anger and resentment as quickly as possible and keep an open line of communication. This relationship has lasted 27 years my marriage 23. I believe my current one is healthier and I'm happy because I'm not manipulating or controlling and I am living one day at a time trusting HP. I can't say which tools would work for you but I know most importantly is that you find yourself and nurture yourself in the process

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi milkwood, I think baby steps are still steps forward and the big giant steps arent what they are cracked up to be anyway. Im not sure that I understanding what you are saying but I could give you my esh and it might help and if not then ignore it.

I wanted to be able to talk to my ex, for lots of reasons, I wanted to share myself and have him understand and relate to me, he couldnt, he would get sarcastic about everytbing and leave me with shame and frustration. His disease was a barrier to meaningful depth. Often, his face would go very uncomfortable when I wanted to talk, he didnt want to talk, I suppose when denial is keeping your lifestyle alive, getting near any truth of our relationship was not good for him. I never got that closeness, he wasnt capable, another thing he often did was use knowledge about my past, fears, feelings, secrets, to belittle me in an argument or keep me down and low.

My motives back then was about changing him, I thought that if he heard me, really heard me, he would never drink or hurt me again, I wanted what I perceived to be a normal relationship. I also hoped to hear from him a good enough reason to leave him. If he confessed something, the key secret thing that would make it easy for me to just go. Never mind all the perfect reasons he had given me over the years, but I was addicted to him and I beleived that power was in his hands, it never was. It was always in my hands. The magic key to freedom was never about him, it was about me, going to meetings gave me some self worth and the knowledge that im entitled to happiness and so is he. Together that was impossible for us.

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

I thank Al-anon from the bottom of my heart for giving me the ability to simply ask, it is a big change in me.

I have also been in that trap of wanting AH to change his behaviour el-cee but I have not been there for a number of years now. I have also been that person who would quite like AH to deliver another reason to allow me to leave I'm afraid. However I am learning to take responsibility for that as well, slowly slowly. Thank you for your patience. Ignoring elephants for the sake of a quiet life no longer does it for me.

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you Grateful for the suggestion, those are very good questions. I just had an opportunity to gently speak my answers with AH. Very helpful and honest.
With much tantrum and complaint AH answered my initial question. The answer was not nearly as bad as I was imagining it might have been so I am pleased that I stuck to my guns. I find it so easy to let unanswered questions ferment, the price of imagination and perhaps an enquiring mind. Now it is put to bed I feel better and hopefully AH will realise that it wasn't that difficult.

Mirandac · ~*Service Worker*~

Is it about his affair? I read on daily strength and people say "you
Need total transparency and answers to all our questions for however
Long "if there is any hope if true reconciliation in a marriage
After an affair.

My ah had an emotional affair denied it all. He was just trying to
Show her the sober way of life. His relationship with her destroyed
Anything we had left in our marriage. Trust, faith, kindness or
Goodness of any kind was all destroyed. Then that woman moved
On after she realized the damage that was done. Then ah had
Another woman from aa he could play hero to and save her.

His disease has won, he needs all the ego stroking he can find
To fill up his addictive personality and make himself feel good
About himself and his behaviors and not be honest with himself.

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm sorry you went through all that Mirandac, emotional affairs are tough.
For once, I am pleased to say, the question wasn't about the affair. But I completely relate to the Daily Strength comments. I realised that I was not going to get any answers while AH was drinking so the alcohol had to go first. It is such a shame that it is so difficult for folks to be honest with themselves, I am so pleased to be learning - it makes life so much simpler. Take care of you ((((hugs))))).

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.