is recovery never ending? - Al-Anon Family Group

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

is recovery never ending?

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Elcee, for me, recovery will end when I am no longer in this physical form. You can make up a new etiquette rule and uninvite him if you choose. I know you will clean this up after you do your inventory and do what is best for you, because that is what you do wink

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks pp, I could do that, grateful for choices. Im looking up some cheap getaways, I might just go for xmas.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

LC CONGRATULATIONS, I believe you handled the telephone call with great dignity and diplomacy. I agree with Paula , I will never be a finished product and always awork in progress.

There was a reading in the Courage to Change this week that spoke about finding spiritual solutions to the things that we are powerless to change. The quote was from a Chinese proverb that stated: "That the birds of worry and care fly above your head, this you cannot change. But that they build nests in your hair this you can prevent."

I like to think that at any time I can pull in my negative tools and use them as they fly above my head. I see that there are often but I choose not to pull them in, as you did. I know how difficult it was to dislodge them as they had built nests in my hair before and I refuse to go through the difficult process of removing them again.

It is much easier to learn not to react and to respond based on my principles and tools. I see you did the same. Good work

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

PP wrote:
Elcee, for me, recovery will end when I am no longer in this physical form. You can make up a new etiquette rule and uninvite him if you choose. I know you will clean this up after you do your inventory and do what is best for you, because that is what you do

SO AGREE with this.............el-cee for me, life changes, people change, situations change, so I must stay in recovery b/c there is no graduation, b/c there is no end to challenges be they people/places or things....

I'll be done with recovery when I take the ole "dirt nap".....until then?? its like moving from one class to another to another....and in my back pack are my program tools to deal.........and i have faith that you will do what is best FOR YOU.....IN SUPPORT

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Well, you tried, el cee. The current outcome is not to your liking. Glad you're venting here and not on the phone with him or the kids. Although I can understand your wanting to go away somewhere for Christmas, might there be other options for you and for the kids so that it won't be drama filled this year - with or without him? He is saying what is true for him right now - the idea of spending Christmas at your house feels awkward to him because you don't know each other anymore. It could also be awkward for you. That dinner, as I remember it, was difficult for you because he put down your cooking as he sat at your table eating your food. I don't see, unless he works this invitation through with his sponsor and sees an attitude or a motive in turning you down or in accepting your invitation that is negative and changes it, that Christmas will be any different for you.

My x and I were able to navigate holidays well (not so much other things) by celebrating them at different times. He had the kids Christmas Eve. I had the kids Christmas Day and beyond it, too. In my faith tradition, Christmas is 12 days starting with the 25th of December and lasting through January 6th. Perhaps you can start a fun and new tradition with your kids that will be enjoyable for you to plan and execute and surprise them? He can come or not since you've already invited him but you can limit the time he is in your house by giving him the time to come for dessert or games or a treasure hunt or star making or whatever you choose. You are a new person and you can do a new thing if you choose? The sky really is the limit when it comes to creativity and imagination. I don't think that you going away for Christmas will lessen any drama, elcee. Your children are between the two of you. It would be more than awkward or drama filled for them, I'd suppose, if you went off somewhere as if you couldn't stand the thought of spending Christmas with them? That might not be your motive, but it could be your kids' interpretation?

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

When you invited him were you kinda hoping he had advanced and would be less jerky about the whole thing? And he's playing the same games as always, trying to have everything his way (sorry I'm paraphrasing you here to clarify for myself). But it's pretty much the same game we play all the time with our A's, hoping they will grow up and then being frustrated when they don't so I'm thinking instead of dreading Christmas or completely changing your plans in reaction to him, what program tools would you suggest to a newcomer who was describing this exact scenario?
For me it would be to the tune of "let go of any expectations, let him do or say as he pleases, prepare in advance to make sure you have the day you want regardless of his actions"...if you decide to go ahead with the lunch, you can arm yourself so well with tools that by the time Christmas Day comes around you'll be unshakable and able to enjoy your day absolutely irrespective of whether he complains, or throws a hissy fit, or makes passive aggressive jabs or whatever he does to get under your skin.
Anyway I know you will handle it beautifully, I am just thinking out loud about how I would handle the same scenario. I think I'd try to see it as an opportunity to practice my new tools.
And maybe imagine myself wearing a suit of armor under my Mrs Santa Suit lol.

Plus I LOVE the idea of recovery being never ending. That means it will just keep getting better forever. Awesome!

-- Edited by missmeliss on Sunday 2nd of November 2014 12:30:08 PM

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh crap...the burner is still hot!! Thanks for the reminder El-Cee that I am not done and never will be and that it isn't as much work as it use to be when I was a newbie and lacked the wisdom and spirit the old timers had. When will I be done? The 12th step tells me along with the Al-Anon declaration that I will never be done. I will always "live" this program and have the opportunities to give it away to others who suffer from the disease for which there is no immunity from other than a active program with a power much greater than myself to steer me thru it.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps we tried to carry this message to others and practice these principles in all our affairs.

Declaration: When anyone anywhere reaches out for help...I want the hand of Al-Anon to always be there; and for that...I am responsible.

It's okay to let him go. (((((hugs))))) smile

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

These things aren't easy and they take practice. But I wonder if you are short-changing yourself. You write, "I thought I would invite my ex to dinner for christmas, I know its early but theres been drama around it the last 2 years." I think it might be a rule of thumb that inviting an A always invites more drama rather than less, don't you think? That's my experience anyway. Boundaries create less drama, A's create more drama.

You also wrote, "He says, oh well I dont know it depends who else youve invited. Right, hes stole my power." I'm wondering if you still don't have all your power. What if you had refused to play the game of telling him who you had invited, but said something like, "I can't promise or not promise who's going to be there, don't know myself yet, but should I take that as a No from you? Hope you have a good one then!" Or if he says, "Tell me later who you invite," you might say, "Can't really do that, so many complications, but it sounds as if you might not be comfortable, so maybe we'll try it some other year."

Of course if your goal is to get him to come, that's one of those things where controlling an A can be an exercise in powerlessness. If he's putting conditions on coming, well, that's when it's a choice between twisting yourself into knots or not playing the game.

My Christmases with my A were so stressful that I can hardly call them Christmas. Sometimes I did it for my son's sake. Not sure it was worth it.

Take good care of yourself.

LinSC · Senior Member

I guess my question is WHY are you inviting him, truly what is your motivation? If you rethink this and use your tools, you may open up other choices for a peaceful Christmas.

Respectfully LinSC

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks everyone, yes the fires still hot, more importantly, why I feel the need to poke it. I think I felt, whats one meal and I want to spend time with my kids, he had them at his last year. Theres a wee baby this year and theres changes. He means practically nothing to me so why not invite him but as it turns out he can still rile me up. Thats why I asked the question, is he still going to have some kind of affect on me forever? I cant imagine my life without alanon.

Jill · ~*Service Worker*~

El-Cee, he is still showing and telling you who he is. Believe him.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Ok an A is like a bees nest when they are using.

Full of hot pockeys and ya never know when or where they are coming from.

So my dear, what makes ya kick the bees nest?

I believe I am always in recovery or more working on making me a better person. I get to know me. It's called self actualization. It brings serenity, love of self, etc.

When we stop all communication with the A, that is when we learn we need NOTHING from them. Nor do we want them in our serenity and happiness.

hugs lady, quit kicken the nest dahling! hugs, debilyn

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

hey el-cee, i didn't give you very much on my last reply to you, my apologies for trying to esh when phone is ringing off the wall

when i am thinking of doing something i ask me (if it is not a slam dunk, healthy thing) this applies to those "not sure i should do this" but the temptation is there to do it....i ask me "what is the payoff i am getting???" still stuck on him?? think i owe someone something??? the excitement of the getting riled up???? maybe a financial need??? or a fear of reprisal??? it could be a ton of things.... there is a "payoff" of sorts when i am thinking of doing something that my deep higher self is making me question

only you know the details of your separation, but my rule of thumb is, unless we part REAL friendly and its a mutual thing, when i am done with someone I am done....now some folks i can put distance with and sorta keep contact with, i've done that, i still enjoy chatting w/them, but we are FRIENDS and we get along, WHEN we see/talk w/one another.......

the holidays bring out the old nostalgia in us and we are tempted to "get with" relationships that we got out of to take care of us...oh the Xmas spirit and all that...

i am just throwing out some stuff for you to think about....if he can "rile" you up...why do this to yourself on this special holiday??? just giving you some stuff to think about......HUGS of support

-- Edited by neshema2 on Sunday 2nd of November 2014 03:17:47 PM

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

The answer is probably yes when it has to do with your kids. I suspect that if there were no children and grandchildren involved, you probably would be just fine with his thoughts, feelings and behaviors because it wouldn't feel like it had anything at all to do with you. When you have kids in the mix, that's where I think things can get a little muddy or challenging for you? Those "riled up" times can lessen over time - my x and I made our peace a few years before he died - but I have learned that even though he's been dead for 13 years, there are things my kids do or don't do that he did and didn't do and that can send me right back to the meetings, the readers, my sponsor or the fellowship - and we were divorced in 1979. For me, its really more about the differences between us that can sometimes get my attention more than it was really my x or is about my x. My value system is different than my x's and some of his values my children entertain rather than mine. I have had to remind myself that it's okay to be true to myself and my own values and although his/theirs are different than mine in some areas - we don't have to be carbon copies of each other for me to be at peace with myself.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 2nd of November 2014 02:57:45 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 2nd of November 2014 03:17:28 PM

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

I know that my exH and I (divorced almost 12 years now) have finally reached a stage where we can be friendly, last Christmas he drove a long way to deliver my girl on time to lunch at my grandmothers after I decided to offer for her to spend Christmas eve with them so she could enjoy the whole Christmas morning Santa thing with his young children (her siblings). So when he turned up he was so cheerful and friendly that i invited him in and he stayed for a bit, and it was just nice. My daughter was grinning ear to ear, I think just because it was so new and different for her to have both parents in the same room smiling and making jokes with each other with no tension. We've been building on that all year, no ulterior motives just a real desire to be decent to each other and parent our child cooperatively and as friends and its NICE after years of being at war.

So I mention it because I think it's a nice thing to strive for, I don't know that you should beat yourself up for wanting it to work, in my case My exH and I were at each other's throats for 11 years, it was absolutely AWFUL and then it changed, because BOTH of us were willing to make a serious effort to 1) not say the "clever" sarcastic comments that come to mind and 2) give each other a bit of leeway if either of us slip up and say something unkind. Actually its sort of funny, he and I now remind me of 2 people trying to walk through a doorway at the same time..."Oh I'm so sorry, after you...No, no, you go first...Oh NO sir, after YOU!".

We have this funny super-polite relationship now and if he makes a snide comment I respond with "I am not sure I understand, can you re-word that?", or I can even say to him "I feel attacked when you say stuff like that and I know that isn't what you mean, can you say it another way so I understand?"

Anyway my point being that it's working because finally both of us are really willing to try, not for any reason other than love for our kid and remembering that we once were very close and respect each other on some level. It's not impossible, it's a NICE thing to strive for, but it's only working because we are BOTH trying very hard to be respectful to each other. I don't think you should second guess yourself for wanting to be able to be friendly with your children's father, but it isn't your fault he isn't there yet. He might be one day, I never thought it could work between my exH and I but it is and that's nothing short of a miracle. I think it's nice that you want to try.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.