The wailing and wringing of hands... - Al-Anon Family Group

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

The wailing and wringing of hands...

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Sorry your going through this mel, I dont really have any esh, except, this too shall pass. Nothing lasts forever, detaching with love from your mother may help.

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

I am more able to do that now, el-cee and i'm grateful for it. I never was before. I know to keep my own side of the street clean as much as I can and if people are going to try to entangle me in those kinds of cycles- "I'm going to do something for you that you don't want me to do and then try to guilt you over it", then it's theirs. I don't have to pick it up.

I do feel for my mother; she has a lot to deal with, her best friend is dying (weeks left) at only 50-something years old, my siblings are a mess, she has her own drinking issues, she can't stand by and let myself and my daughter have no-where to go yet she doesn't in any way need the extra stress or people in her home. I feel for her and i am trying everything I can think of to find alternatives, to be cheerful and friendly and grateful with her, I know that my grandmother is telling her that she "must" take me in, she "must" take all of my belongings, she must do this and that.. it is unpleasant and stressful for her. I get that. But the scapegoating and unkind comments, the putting me down to my daughter and telling me I am pathetic, these things aren't really helping me much. I dread waking up there, the dynamics are just so awful. I did NOT ask if I could go there, she asked me repeatedly and tried to suggest it would be great...now it is reality and it is very different.

For example, she has 3 adult offspring living at home and whenever any of them talk about moving out she tells them they mustn't, they can't afford it, they have it good at home and they should stay. Yet she sleeps in the room next to the front door with her bedroom door wide open and wakes up anytime anyone comes or goes at night and gets hysterical about it and complains and tells me how many times she was "woken up" last night...but she wont allow anyone to use the back door, the only way in or out is through the front, she refuses to close her bedroom door, it's like it's her right to carry her cross and woe betide anyone who suggests that she put it down. 2 of her children are musicians and play gigs several nights a week so of course they come and go all night long...what choice do they have? Why on earth not let them use the back door so she can sleep or at least close hers?
It gets tiring, I can't believe I am walking back into it. I loved that we finally had a relationship and I was able to be friends with her without being entangled in the nonsense. I wish I knew why, what possible good can come from this?

I am doing my best, trying not to wallow, I will avail myself of lots of meetings when I am there, what else can I do.

-- Edited by missmeliss on Monday 13th of October 2014 04:21:49 AM

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

She sounds like a deeply unhappy woman with martyr victim behaviours so common with alcoholism. Remember, you have recovery like never before. You can choose what to listen to and use your tools to validate yourself and set boundaries. For example, its not ok to talk about you to your daughter, did you tell her to stop? Maybe you could explain to your daughter that this unacceptable and she can tell her grandmother nicely that she doesnt want to listen to anyone talking badly of her mother. Show your mother the person you are now, your strong, say what you mean and dont say it mean. Say what needs to be said and if it continues move away, out the room. Youve done this before with your ex, you kniw it works. Show your daughter the right way to handle crazy people. You have always got choices, you may need to live with her for a while but you dont need to be her victim, its a choice. We decide whether our feelings are hurt or not.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Melly, are there meetings you can get to ASAP? How about the meetings online here? You need all of the support available to you...I am concerned for you more than ever.

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks el-cee, for seeing past my moaning and reminding me of what I CAN do. I do have choices and I can defend my boundaries. And I can do that whilst still being grateful and respectful of the fact that I will be staying in my mother's house. I don't have to play the role I am being shoved into, I don't like it. The scapegoat costume doesn't fit me anymore, sorry. Now can I help with the cooking, or the washing up? After that I am going to a meeting, I'll be back around 10....if you're in bed then I will have to ring the bell, or you could let me have a key while I am here, it's your choice...what would you prefer? if she really wants to play gate-keeper in her own home, it's her business. She raised all of us to be paranoid and obsessive-compulsive about checking the doors are locked, appliances switched off, no-one is as careful about these things as my siblings and I. We all check everything 50 times and then check on each other...did you lock the door? I'm sorry to wake you but i was worried you might not have turned your TV off at the wall before you fell asleep" lol. It's all pretty mental. Last time I stayed there I had a candle on my desk and I was working late on an essay, she sent my step-father up 4 or 5 times and at about 2am he asked me, pleading...could you please put out the candle, your mother can't sleep knowing you have it lit". I'm nearly 40, I think I can safely operate a candle...Oh, the craziness, can't believe I am going back into the craziness...please let it only be for a short time.. I love my mother, I do, and I am lucky that she is willing to help me in this time of need... But living there...ye Gods.

My daughter actually doesn't take very well to people putting me down; she has been in trouble for it at her fathers house getting angry at her step-mother for badmouthing me. It's genetic I guess, my grandmother didn't speak to me for almost a year after I told her I loved her but wouldn't listen to her badmouth my mother or siblings anymore. I actually have more of a challenge telling daughter to be calm and not engage, I try to tell her it doesn't matter what people say, you know what is true and you don't have to agree or be involved. She's a pretty groovy kid, but very defensive of me, codependent trait or just who she is? I don't know. I don't encourage her to defend me and i'm careful not to complain about people around her because of it. I am more worried about her having conflict with my mother, not worried that she will be influenced. Daughter thinks grandma is a bit ridiculous and it actually makes me a bit sad as mother tries hard to engage daughter, buys her things, pays a special allowance into her bank account etc but daughter doesn't really respond to her and it makes me feel guilty and sad. I am forever trying to explain to my mother that "she loves you, she is just quiet, she is just preoccupied" but in reality daughter remembers all of the times grandma screamed at me or her when she was a kid and we used to visit, she remembers the Christmas day when grandma screamed at her until she cried because she was happy in the dress she had picked out for Christmas day and didn't want to change into the outfit grandma bought her...daughter remembers all of that stuff and she is a lot more pragmatic than I am. I have watched daughter dismiss bullies as if they were mosquitos, she is strong and takes no nonsense from anyone and I am forever asking her to send grandma a message and trying to convince her that "Grandma loves you, you should be nice to her". Daughter isn't really interested, she isn't buying it. And I and up in a codependent tailspin trying to manage it because daughter should love grandma...shouldn't she? Mother would be SO HURT if she knew the truth.

This is who my kid is.
When I picked her up from school today we were chatting about how it will be when we move, how can we make the best of it, what can we do to enjoy our time living in the city, we can catch up with old friends and go to see lots of cool things...me trying to be positive and enthusiastic... and she said..."Mum, you know how (ABF) made dinner last night? You know he's just sucking up to you because he knows he has messed everything up, right? Things will work out for us when he is really gone". There is the head of an 80 year old woman on those 11 year old shoulders. It's kind of disconcerting, to be honest. How do you parent that? I was exactly the same, I moved out and supported myself and worked and went to school from before my 16th birthday...I'm so proud of who she is but wow, don't I get to be mum at all?

There was a really grumpy rude crossing guard outside her school when she was about 6 that yelled at everyone and one day I just crossed the street with daughter away from the crossing because I didn't have time to wait for him to argue with a bunch of kids in the middle of the road. He yelled out at me SO rudely "You are SUPPOSED to use the DAMN CROSSING" and my daughter whipped around and stood with her hands on her hips and yelled back "I THINK MY MUM KNOWS HOW TO SAFELY CROSS THE ROAD WITH ME, THANK YOU VERY MUCH".
OMG I didn't know whether to hug her or tell her off for being rude.
Anyway, this is neither here nor there, just musing. It feels good to think about the strong little lady my daughter is, it gives me hope. I am very, very blessed to have her in my life.

We can navigate this. You are right, I do have recovery now and whatever obstacles come up, there will be a way to get through them.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Ms. M I am so sorry that this situation has grown so out of hand. If your home is in such a terrible condition , it may well be the reason you are experiencing difficulty. Recouping for a time at Mom's may be the right action. Acceptance and life on life's terms comes to mind as I read your posting. Prayers for courage, never go unanswered.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Maybe going to visit your doctor as well as meetings, those black clouds you talk about sound like depression or something else that you may need help with. Take care of yourself.x

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

Betty, the house is outwardly clean, there is just a lot to do to get it into an acceptable moving out state. It's not falling down around our ears or anything and nothing that would be obvious to the agent or landlord. Just a lot of work to get it ship-shape and have all of the boxes ticked when they do the final inspection.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Just read your reply. Thats the spirit. Your daughter is definitely one amazing girl. This time with your mother may be an adventure and better than expected. I kind of get her concern about candles. Im a bit paranoid about them too. My son has them in his room and I hide them from him, nuts eh?
I understand that horrible overwhelming feeling and it can seem hopeless. I suggest taking it one step at a time, do what you can in the house. If it doesnt get done then maybe a portion of your deposit will pay for the rest. Not ideal of course but not the end of the world. Ive got a feeling that this may turn out to be a good thing for you amd your daughter. In my experience I was presented with people and situations time and again until I learned to deal with them in the correct way. Maybe this is it for you, last chance at standing up for yourself and taking your power right back from the hands of your mother. This could be the making of you.x

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

We can navigate this. You are right, I do have recovery now and whatever obstacles come up, there will be a way to get through them.

You will get through this, Melly because you are strong, persistent and mindful.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm also betting that when it comes time to leave your mom's house, she will tell you the same thing about how you can't afford it and so on....because she doesn't want any of her children to go and wants to control all of you...and she want's you to believe you can't make it on your own so you stay with her and keep her company so that is why she belittles you. So...understanding this, you can do your best to QTIP for all of it.

I know you were making progress Mel with your course, but getting a career will really help. Even if you had to take 2 years there while finishing nursing or whatever. If you find an in demand job field, that will help a lot. I know you have some amount of nursing classes behind you already.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

My mum has been dead for 10yrs this yr and I know that I wouldnt cope very well with the thought of going back to live with her. I think I would feel much the same as you. I can see it from both sides. My grown daughter moved back I with me for a few months last year and I could feel the resentment coming fromher. She probably felt the way I would have and the way you do but about me. Its a mother, daughter thing I think. Add a bit of alcohol damage into the mix and theres the dysfunction, right there. When my daughter came, I actually enjoyed it, she never, but I did and it was because I had recovery. Have you ever seen that cartoon about a bat with wings like a sheild of steel? Well, thats me with alanon, its like we have super powers, lol. Noone can touch us.x

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

((MissMeliss)) I am reminded daily in my own life that each moment is progress, not perfection. Alanon taught me that I cannot change someone else; I can't make them be nice, I can't make them treat me with respect. All I can do is set my boundaries the best I can, and continue to reset them as I improve at learning more about what would be effective for a particular situation. Focusing on the facts often helps me. It isn't so nice of your Mom or supportive, but she did want you to house your things with her so you can gain some traction- and gaining some traction seems to be a good next step.

My daughter, now 23, didn't and still doesn't like when my family or others put me down or speak to me unkindly. Not much we can do about others, but we have choices in how we choose to react or not react- a lesson that I lean on for how I want to live my life.

Sending prayers!

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

Do you have to go through an agent to get a rental? Any way you can speak directly with the landlords?

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Ditto lmh's question, Melly. There could be another way to find a rental that is suitable for you than through the agent.

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

It could be, el-cee. I hope so. I don't really have any way around this and have to walk right through it, I guess I can choose whether it is an adventure which strengthens me or a "bad thing that happens to me".
It's extremely important to me to get the security deposit back because that is a big factor in renting a new place...if the bond isn't refunded in full then future landlords want to know why..there is a central authority that holds the security deposit here so it's not something you can hide if it is kept, it goes on a database. It is a big deal.
I'm just so frustrated because I have always rented responsibly and it seems insane that I am not able to rent a place again right now. I want to do everything I can to make sure I am able to be back in my own home again soon.
As to seeing a doctor, yes, it is depression, I have battled it before, we have gone several rounds and I don't respond very well to medication for it. It's part of the reason I got into natural medicine. I think my mindset is good, and I am taking every positive action that I can think of to stay afloat. It's not like I sit around feeling sorry for myself, I am not giving in to the "poor me's", I just feel like I am doing everything I can and I'm missing something, there is a hole in my thinking, something I am not doing...what is it? What am I not getting? I think I am a reasonably intelligent woman who is willing to learn and grow...what is it that I am missing right now? Why is it going so wrong? I put all of that legwork into finding a job and a new house...then had to decline jobs because I could not find a house..having to leave my course is heartbreaking, I was working hard at that and loving it, it's really sad to walk away from it.
I don't believe it is all magical and everything just "happens" to us, I am trying to be positive and make my own destiny. I have to be honest, I thought things might go a little better for me when i let go of ABF but instead they are going worse, he is lording it over me now saying "If I get a job we will be able to rent a house again" and "I need to know if you are going to want to live with me again because if you do, I will get a job", he gave that spiel to my parents on the weekend and they were like "see, there you go, he will get a job, can't you compromise with him", they don't get it, and thats OK, it isn't their job to get it... Well, no thanks, that is an easy option, suck up to ABF and go through the whole charade again..I'm not doing that.
HP, I do not understand.
Someone posted on here about being in a wheelbarrow going over a tightrope and HP trying to steer but they kept trying to take control...
I'm trying to listen. I'm trying to let HP steer.
But I can't help wondering if HP is drunk.
Michael Douglas just peed on my futon mattress.
Awesome.

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

As far as finding a rental sans agent, i have looked under every rock.
I am resourceful and good at finding options. I would put that at the top of my asset list, right above "finding ways to turn negatives into positives".
It just isn't happening. But I'm glad to be talking it through here with you good people, it helps a lot. I can't explain why or how, but it does. As I complain and listen and complain and listen, it makes more sense and I feel more positive.
Today, I had an email from a house-sitting agency I had registered with. A person in a town 20 minutes away was looking for someone to mind their house and feed and walk their dog for the next 2 months. I felt so excited and happy, i almost exploded with joy as I wrote a reply to the ad, thinking, this is IT! It's perfect! It just has to be the right thing, HP PLEASE!!!
The reply came, "I'm sorry, we already have someone, we forgot to take the listing down, we wish you luck".
I just cried and cried, getting a bit sick of the sound of my own sadness to be honest.

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

Pink, i don't know if this is what you were getting at but it is a bit crazy that I am doing a cert4 course...in drug and alcohol and mental health support...when I am still enrolled in a bachelor degree and 3/4 of the way through it. Maybe that was just me trying to rationalise my life here with ABF and still feel like i was achieving something. Maybe I was "settling".
Moving to my mothers puts me in close proximity to my university, and there's no reason I can't get my crap together and go into the uni and finish my degree. It wasn't nursing, it was a "bachelor of health science" specialising in naturopathy. Which is basically a 3 year nursing degree with an extra year for the natural medicine components. That is what a naturopathy degree is here.
When I wailed to mother that i "can't go to classes anymore" she said "maybe you'll just have to finish your real degree now".
Maybe that's it, maybe that's what i need to do. I think I could get enthusiastic about that.
But that doesn't help daughter go to her high-school (she got into a special smart-kid program and it's pretty awesome) and it also means i have to pass pharmacology and I've failed that twice already. I really hate it, I can do science but "science with math" is brain-breaking to me. Organic chem almost sent me to a mental institution.
Also, this is super-dumb but we are on "high terrorist alert" at the moment and i feel safer living in a small town away from the action. I worry about the crazy world we live in and the awful things that happen and i feel much safer living in a small town. I don't particularly want to be blown up. That would suck.

-- Edited by missmeliss on Monday 13th of October 2014 09:21:31 AM

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

Paula, your latest avatar is basically a picture of my favorite place on earth. It is called the "Sorrento Baths" and it is across the bay from me. It is a collection of rock-pools that they tried to concrete and turn into "swimming pools" many years ago, now the tides have worn down the concrete and the original rock-pools prevail and they are so beautiful. There is one large one in the middle.
You have basically painted the sorrento baths at sunset.
One day I will go across on the ferry and take a picture to show you.
I wish there was a way for me to have some of your pictures on my wall. I just love them.

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

Meliss,

At some point, it just has to get better. I think it's a Lore of the Universe, as a teacher of mine used to say.
Bless you. Do you have an old friend in the city that you could call who'd be willing to find a place for Michael Douglas? You could drop him off on your way to your mother's? Cause I know that a kitty who pees on your futon when you are just about at the nadir of your existence is not a pet you'd want to say goodbye to forever. He can always make you laugh, right?
If caring what happens to you times however many there are of us could be turned into something concrete, you'd be living rent-free at the Governor's. Keep taking the best care of you that you can. Hugs.

Paula,

I think it is magical that you painted a dream landscape and Meliss knows where the place exists. That knocks my socks off.

Blessings,
Temple

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Melly, I would love to see a picture of Sorrento Baths. If you like, I can email a picture of the painting to you and you can print it?

Temple, I love doing these paintings because they just come....they are not planned. When I try to control them, I make messes smile Sort of like my relationships...teehee

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

So the next question I have regarding rental agents is, I assume there are others you can try to go through? perhaps the one you currently have isn't promoting you in your best interests? just thinking

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Yes Melly, finish the Bachelors! (not giving advice lol - ok yeah I guess I am). Seriously, that kind of degree is probably highly marketable. If you look at all of this as a temporary thing needed in order to reduce the obstacles to you finishing your degree - great. Go full time and knock it all out in 1 year if you can. It would be worth it. No, a bachelor's degree doesn't ensure a lifetime of financial security, but it helps a bunch. It is also something nobody can EVER take from you once you finish.

Sweet Stanley · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree with Pinkchip. Get the degree If possible. It is a way of being in control of your life again. Things may look really bad right now, but you just have to keep on, keeping on. You are a good person, you have this program, an awesome daughter, and it will get better. Look how far you have grown as a person! You have just had a bad streak of bad luck. Praying for you Melly!!!

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I trust you will do what is best for you, Melly, even if there appear to be obstacles in your way. You are smart, intuitive, talented, creative and able to create any kind of life you really want for yourself. Whether you live again with your Mom or find a suitable place to stay temporarily, you will make the best of it in your way with the skill sets you have and the abilities that are yours.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Melly, I don't have anything to contribute as you got great esh from the others...Just wanted to stop by and tell you "chin up" and you will overcome this..I see a smart fighter in you..i also agree with pinkchip about the degree...You deserve it and you can do it...........sending you hugs of support....

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

I want to thank you guys for just letting me talk.
It means a lot to me that you're able to let me "say it out loud" like this. Thank-you.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

You are welcome....

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

missmeliss wrote:
I want to thank you guys for just letting me talk.
It means a lot to me that you're able to let me "say it out loud" like this. Thank-you.

Hey Mel, we got ya covered if not face to face in our hearts..........sometimes just getting it out w/folks who care and understand is just enough to go one more day....to tell you the truth, I think you are fantastic coping w/all this on your plate......so talk away...whatever it takes to de-stress I'm sending you some BIG home finding energy....and with your perseverance, something HAS to give...the percentages HAVE to swing in your favor.........

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Mel this is what I meant about boundaries. You said storage, yet mom was allowed to control you like a child. Same with cat, its your family member, and u can make something outside for it.

Part of our parents seeing us as adults is us saying no, this is the way it is. Whether she is temp taking you in or not, she has no right to control you. I would get a storage garage and start moving my stuff with my car no matter how long it too, I would bring My cat and set up a nice warm home with food and water. You are an adult.

i hate it when people set us up to be griped at. School, storage, cat, cloths etc is YOUR business She is manipulating u and getting high from tearing you apart.

You are going thru so much at once. Just one thing would bring anyone down. But you have so many losses. Stress is the worst thing on our bodies.

"NO, I choose not to talk about it. " simple. Remember I suggested changing or allowing yourself to learn to change this toxi relation ship wth mom?

Mom, I am an adult and will make my own decisions. period. She is not going to tell you to leave just cuz your cat is outside. Mom we have lost enough already.

I am so sad you are in pain! Are there little motels or ? to live in at the beach? Have u put up ads on what you need? I see them here all the time.

You are very bright, you are overwhelmed. Mel when we give our power away like this,it makes us so sick.

Who knows what agenda those realitors are on. I know here you must have a job, good credit, etc.no one is willing to give a little anymore cuz creeepy people ruin it for people like you. hey I had my cute little place torn down here. So tired of people tearing it up and not paying rent.

They are not going to tell you if they gave a ad reference.I am telling you they all know each other and have heard about A, and how A treats you. People I have never met know me and know i love pigs and animals!OH you are the lady who has the pigs! They keep lists of bad tenants. I know here there is a site landlords can check.

There has to be someone else in your position who you could get together and rent together. Student maybe from school?

Are there any open spaces in town like above shops? I know I would love to live in a warehouse as long as it had windows, make it home. Iwant to come there and go hunt and help you find a home!

I am serious, tell mom, mom someone in the usa is sending me money to make something for my cat to stay in while i am here. tell vets you need a temp foster home for it. advertise your situation. I would take ya in so someone else will.

Get rest, you are exausted. Hey seriously I would put a tent up outside for me daughter, dog and cat. I mean at moms, so I had peace.

This is NO time to lose anything else~WAnt to move to oregon USA? We have a great community college and Oregon state is a great four year one. I know you don't but what an adventure eh?

YES keep venting and sharing, that is why we are here. Makes us feel good you need us. We need you too.

hugs hugs, debilyn

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

I am so sorry you're going through this! You have probably thought of everything, but you mentioned your daughters father has made amends to you? Is there any way he can help you temporarily? Or can he help you find a place? Is there any way your family can help you get a loan for something like a mobile home? They are usually pretty cheap. Can anyone consign with you to get a place? Are you working yet? If not, that's a red flag for the landlords. My parents used to be landlords and the job was #1. They would require renters to make 3x the monthly rent in income.
If your mom doesn't like your stuff and uses it against you...it's your right to take it and put it into storage. Boundaries are ok.
Our kids are so smart. They see the truth. She sounds like a smart girl. Things will work out somehow.

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

The tent idea sounds good. Get a nice big one for your daughter,my of and the animals.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.