Having trouble with a terrible defect - Al-Anon Family Group

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Having trouble with a terrible defect

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I would have serious concerns about him not turning out like his dad as well. I mean his dad is nonfunctional. I get that you need to be detached from your XAH because he's grown and a lost cause, but your son is not. By "flipping out" what exactly do you mean? Yeah it would be ideal if you could discipline with as little personal anger as possible, but you are human. How are you not supposed to get angry when there is spoiled meat cuz your son was irresponsible.

From my ESH, my mom didn't hold me accountable enough and she let me be a slacker. She held my older sisters more accountable and I didn't have to do laundry, dishes, mow the lawn...nothing. So that contributed to me becoming a spoiled, selfish, self-centered person and when the real adult world came up on me, I drank partially because I was not prepared to deal with it (Not my mom's fault but she did do some enabling of me as a kid and it carried over).

Hence, I don't think you getting on your son about these things is bad. It would only be bad if you said "You act just like your loser dad!" or something like that. You are doing him favors by not letting him slide and by not enabling him.

I see the issue as pent up anger and resentment towards the XAH. There is always a double edged sword when it comes to making the choice between:

1. Telling XAH or writing him in as civil a manner as possible about how upset you are. How you are being slighted and mistreated by him for being such a dead beat father.

vs.

2. Detaching because you know he is mentally sick, in denial, will never get it, and it will be wasted words. That could lead to more tension and fighting and strain between you and him and you do not want your son to see that.

#1 is validating your emotions and setting boundaries even though the boundaries will likely get broken because he's incapable of living up to certain boundaries. It might provide you some ease to resentment if you state that it does not matter that he doesn't have "a salary" because it's both parents' job to contribute to raising their children. I know he believes he has some legit physical illness that keeps him from working (aside from the reality which is that it's straight up laziness, denial, and alcoholism)...this I know from your posts in the past. I do not know that I could listen to his BS without responding back what reality is...regardless of if he accepts it or not. I would have to say it for myself (either in words or letter form). Otherwise I would be seething with resentment.

#2 is respecting your serenity by not engaging in futile arguments with a sick person who will never "see the light."

Both actions could be seen as using program tools and it's going to take your discernment to figure out which one and when. I do see some need (just from my perspective) to communicate to XAH that his views and his deficiencies are not OK, that they are warped, selfish, and he is treading all over you. I would have to do this just for me.

Prayers that you can figure out a balance and let go of some of the anger. I would feel angry too as I know it is so freaking unfair that 1 parent is somehow just allowed to be a total loser and they literally feel justified in it. UGH! I would also have a very hard time not having that anger spill over, even in areas where anger is normal, but perhaps I would be getting even more angry than normal due to already being on edge (like you stated).

Most of all, I just want to commend you for stepping up and being the 1 functioning parent your son needs.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Mattie))) If I remember correctly, your son is 11? I have met few kids this age who want to do anything but "hang out" with their friends. Doesn't necessarily mean he has his Dad's disease. May just mean he's a kid?

I learned that nagging only helped my kids delay doing what was expected of them and made it easier for them "to forget" what was asked of them. Part of that was really due to age and part of it was really due to them not wanting to do it. My grandson knows that if I ask him to do something, he will be asked once and then there will be a consequence. If he "forgets," the following week I will check to make sure he does what I've asked before he can go home to play x-box with friends. His mother came up with a brilliant idea that she was going to set a test at one of his chore and hygiene stations and if she noticed he didn't do the chore or carry out the hygiene activity at the hidden "test" station, his phone was gone for the night. Suddenly, his memory and his ability to carry through on each chore and hygiene activity improved. He mows grass at my home and is paid at rates based on criteria to include attitude. I judge if the job he has done is okay, better than okay, or very good. He wants top dollar so he adjusts his attitude and the job he does to meet the top dollar criteria that we established together before he started the work. I don't argue with him about it. He just gets the agreed upon price based on his effort. If he's disappointed in the amount, he knows he can always improve his attitude and the amount of energy he puts into yard detail. He's been paid at the better than okay level once. All other weeks - very good. He likes top dollar.

On the subject of your anger - I think the solution lies in your post. You need a break. Not just a break from fear and worry and your x's lack of support, but a physical break from everything you've been doing to include your job? And not just once every year or so but at least once a week or a weekend? A break that is not job related.

I'd drag my kids to my friend's house where her three kids and my two would play together and we'd sit in the kitchen and just visit over tea. I can remember rocking in her kitchen while she sat on her favorite chair and just bask in the glow of hanging out with another single Mom who was struggling to make ends meet and had full responsibility of her life and of her kids just like me. We'd go places together with our kids that didn't cost a lot of money if any. I welcomed any and all invitations from my kids' friends for them to spend the night if I trusted the parents. I also welcomed my kids having friends over because in some strange way, that also gave me a break.

If I had those years to live over again, I do think I would have worried less and laughed more. I would have complimented myself and encouraged myself more, too. And I would remember that I could only do the best I could and the outcome was in my HP's hands and not mine.

As to your x - I don't know what the legal set up is on child support, etc, but if there is a court order in place for support and he isn't paying it, I'd turn it over to the State if you haven't done that already and let them chase him for it without wasting my energy going after it from him. He is never going to give it to you on his own and the State has ways to go after him that can result in some consistent monies for you. It not, can you apply for disability assistance through the Federal Government for your son's needs? I worked with a lot of folks who obtained Federal Government assistance for their minor children based on their disabilities. Maybe you can get help, too, that might give you some extra income and open the door to affordable help for him depending on his issues?

-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 02:43:26 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 02:45:06 PM

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-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 02:50:15 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 02:59:49 PM

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

I know we've talked a bit about this privately so I just wanted to add that what works for me with my son is setting consequences. I have a new one that is working quite well right now. When he says, "Mom, I can't find such and such item...." I used to always jump at that and start helping him find the item, whatever it was. Now, I tell him, "If I find it before you, you have to pay me a dollar." Yep, and I meant it. He learned really quick to be responsible for himself when he needs to find something or else he knows he has to pay up.

I also have limits on the phone stuff(he uses his phone like a computer). It's MINE until his schoolwork is finished and he only gets it for lunch time and dinner time or after tennis practice.

As to the anger, let me know how that one goes because it's one of my biggest struggles. My AH has never attended one meeting with the neuropsychologist, one appointment with the dentist or doctor, and does not participate in any way in helping our son become more emotionally healthy, etc. I have resented the heck out of him because of it. I used to ask and he'd say the same stuff your X said. It's so hard to balance everything, Mattie. You're doing a great job and you're an awesome mom. My sponsor told me recently, though, that I can't force my son to be successful; I can only lay the groundwork as best as I can and do the best I can with the information available to me at that time. His success as an adult is actually going to have be between him and God. I have so much guilt over how I'm doing as a parent that it was a tough pill to swallow when I realized that she's right. I can't force him to remember to take out the trash, I can't force him to write poetically or grammatically correct if he just won't get it or take the time to get it. It's so frustrating and I feel for you. As a mom to a special needs kid, I totally get it! HUGS!!!

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Mattie I agree with all that has been shared You are human and becoming angry over your child's behavior and seeming neglect of chores understandable.

I know alanon tells us that we are powerless over people, places and things and that how we respond to a situation is what counts in the long run. I often felt like the only parent in my family and it was extremely difficult but remembering to use Al-Anon tools such as how important is it, keep it simple, one day at a time, helped me over the rough spots.
Having son spend time with relatives for a weekend also helped me when I was feeling over whelmed.

He also attended Alateen meetings from about 12 on because many of my husband's traits were evident in my son very early on and I tried desperately without success to change that inner dynamic.

The best you can do is your best and you are doing just that. HP is in control

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Mattie,

I have a 14 year old son. That whole "I forgot about that thing". Yeah, It's a boy thing. I don't have a girl so I can't say if it is also just a teen/preteen thing or not. But we are always having to follow up on him. We have set consequences, and limits around such things, but inevitably things slip through. We try to determine which battles are important and which aren't.

Slipping up on schoolwork isn't acceptable, and he has done that since he was, oh, about 10 or 11. He's just now figuring out how much better his life could be if he didn't forget to tell us that he needed to redo an algebra quiz, told us about problems instead of us hearing about them from the teacher, etc. He's been "amish" (no electronics or TV) a number of times this year. He is currently "amish", wife threatens to take away his buttons and give him hooks and loops lol. But he is pushing hard, and it is motivating him. We are at end of quarter right now, so we shall see...

I will leave it to the others for what seems like great ESH. I was a single dad twice for a month while AW was in inpatient treatment, I don't know how people do the whole single parenthood thing, you all have my great respect and admiration. By the end of my stint I didn't really care if he sat around in his underwear eating taco chips straight from the bag and dipping them straight into a can of cheese whiz for dinner, because that's what I was doing too!

Kenny

-- Edited by KennyFenderjazz on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 03:19:23 PM

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Mattie,

You're not terribly defective; you're temporarily overwhelmed. You've been such a help to the board, and it hurts to see you hurting.

Can you pretend XAH has been captured and whisked away by Martians? Cause then maybe you wouldn't be angry, but just annoyed at him for letting himself get abducted.

There's a pretty short book--Have a New Kid by Friday, on just what the others said--having consequences. It takes away a lot of your anger and puts the onus on the kid and he does learn to be responsible. If he has learning disabilities, he'd be well served to learn that he has to work harder than the norm, and that that is okay. Work can be fun, especially when you're a big boy now and helping your mother make a home.

Dr. Theodore Dreikers wrote a much longer book: Children: the Challenge. Same thing: Natural Consequences. I used to watch him on TV eons ago. He could straighten a kid out in about 15 minutes. He could be quite draconian--if the kid doesn't do his chores (I can't remember how many chances he got--one? More than one? Surely more than one.) Anyway the mother was instructed to make dinner for herself and her husband and let the child/children go without. And explain very calmly, but you didn't do your chores. Daddy and I did. Sounds terrible. A healthy child won't starve to death overnight and it does "concentrate the mind." Dr. Dreikers was very adamant about not letting a child feel sorry for himself. Sometimes he'd say, "Find the Grandmother!" He meant the enabler. Sounds as if a child mentioned earlier has a very different sort of grandmother, lucky him.

I like the suggestions about taking the social media away--that's a privilege, not a right.

And oh wouldn't that be lovely, to have a friend, and get together and just let it all roll off for a few hours. It makes me happy to know that Catherine had that. I'd love to think of you with your feet up, sharing burdens and laughter.

Taking care of you, Mattie, is I think the very best thing you can do for your son. Whatever that entails. Can your company help? Sounds like you're a very valuable employee. Some extra money or extra help around the house--well, I guess it's the same thing--might really make a difference.

I don't know--are you more or less required to strive for perfection in your career? And if so, is it hard to let that go when you get home? I would think it would.

If this feels like I'm telling you what to do, I apologize. And I know you'll take what you like. I haven't been in your place; I'm just doing mental Googling here. And you'll get through this.

Prayers, hugs,
Temple

-- Edited by Temple on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 03:45:33 PM

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh, I just read Kenny's post.

Sounds like one of those charming Mister Mom-type movies. You remind me very often about the things I really love about men.

I wonder what would happen if all the precious single mothers, married and not, gave their children a taco chips in your underwear kind of night once in a while. I can see Diane Keeton playing the Mom in that one.

Bless them all.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs Mattie,

I fully can relate to this issue especially with the chaos I have going on. It is frustrating to be the responsible person all of the time because the other party can not do basic things. In my case mine just doesn't think he needs to and his is strictly the whole you are taking MY money, in my case the courts can take care of that .. however I am left with the resentments and the frustration of right now. Right now I should be sitting at the office balancing the bank. Right now, I have a little man who is 10 and he is not feeling well. Why am I home? My daughter didn't want to walk with her brother in case he puked. We aren't talking 3 miles and he has no fever. It's cramps and some nausea. Now that he's home of course he feels better. I'm angry and frustrated so where does that leave me. Well, having an outburst at my daughter who is now acting like her brother's mother. LOL .. she means very well however I didn't come home for her to be in charge of the situation. I could have stayed at work.

I think I expect a LOT out of myself and it's not that I need to lower expectations .. I need to accept I'm not perfect (I belong to the human race) and I'm not always going to have the perfect single parent response. I don't think this is really so much about my anger at my STBAX as much as it is about my anger that I should have it all together. As far as my kids, I do have consequences with choices set up, you know what .. sometimes even mom needs a timeout. Granted my kids have each other and they are older so I have a little more freedom in that regard I can go to my room close the door and say I just can't talk right now.

That's another thing I've gained out of this program is the ability to say I will have to get back to you about that .. LOL! I do not have to have an answer right that second and I forget that is the case.

It's been humbling to have to actually ask for help from others and it's very hard for me to do this. I reached out to my son's cross country coach and asked if he would spend a little extra time with my son even during the off season and explained just a little of what D has had to deal with over the last 3 years. He is really struggling right now in terms of male role models, .. it's not like I'm dating and it's not like I will be any time soon .. lol. I like being alone I just wish I could have a sugar daddy on the side. Anyway, that helps me and it helps my son. There are things I can't teach him as a mom and there are things I have NO wish for him to learn from his father. So finding strong male role models is the way for me to go, I'm very grateful for the school my kids attend.

My anger at the STBAX .. yikes .. the only way for me to process that is to just feel it and not try to rationalize it .. it just is what it is and it is ok to feel anger .. it's just not healthy to hang on to it. If I can feel it and say oh .. wow .. you there ok .. I hear you .. can I control the situation in terms of is it me or is it him .. then I can work from there to see what is healthy anger because anger is healthy it lets us know something is not ok. I can then rationalize if it's healthy for me to hang on to and usually it's not.

I'm dealing with that a lot this week.

Hugs S :)

NL14 · Veteran Member

Hi Mattie,

I have a 13 year old son, who has (until this year) been a total slacker in school, unwilling to help out, forgetful, etc. My AH is still fully in the picture, but he leaves almost everything to me--so I've worked a full-time job on a part-time schedule, been childcare, housekeeper, done all the grocery shopping, cooking, laundry, everything for the kids, etc., etc., etc. The resentment at AH over that is unbelievable, and I've definitely lost it with my kids when they've pushed my buttons when I've been feeling overwhelmed. I'm much more aware of my tendency to do that recently, so I've done it less. I've also asked for more help from my AH (he still doesn't do much). And I've required more of my kids--with consequences if they don't step up. Part of it is maturity, but my 13 year-old is suddenly MUCH more responsible about everything, and actually quite pleasant to be around!

So, it may get better naturally. But, sounds like you really need some help. Is there any way you could get someone to help run errands or stay with your son now and then? Or do housework? For me, occasionally ordering groceries online and having them delivered can feel like a lifesaver. It's more expensive, but on those days my sanity and my time are worth the extra $$.

Hang in there. And forgive yourself for freaking out at your son now and then. It happens. When it happens to me these days, I try to apologize afterwards and explain how I was feeling...and that helps all of us resolve the bad feelings.

Good luck!

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Mattie, I really feel for you, I do so relate and I wish I could help. My suggestion is write it out in a letter to both your ex and your son, let it out, give them a good telling off, but dont give them the letter . Then write a letter of forgiveness to them both and to yourself. This has gave me such relief. Forgive yourself too, your doing the best you can with what you have.

I had to stop taking it out on my kids, its not the right thing, it can be damaging to them and us, then we carry that horrible guilt about. Your ex is sick, like mine and that sickness has let them get away with a whole lot of responsibility. Theres no one to share the parenitn, the costs, anything but in my expereince you get what you give. I have a great relationship with my kids, its on a deeper level than he could ever have with them. I can see and feel what he can't. Just as his disease stops him seeing the reality of parenting its stopped him seeing and feeling the good stuff too.

Consequences for your son may be the way to go. He left the groceries out in the car because he wanted to go on the computer, maybe a short time without the computer might help him see that its important to pull his weight, you will likely feel a bit more empowered. Having as little contact with your ex as possible might help, making sure you claim everything you can financially to help with the costs. reaching out to your sponsor or another alanon member via the phone helps too. Thanks for sharing.x

-- Edited by el-cee on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 05:32:05 PM

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

I felt overwhelmed reading your post. I remember those days of raising 2kids and working full time with no support. They were hell at times and at, yet, I have some wonderful memories. It does sound like you need some you time, desperately. I don't see a defect, I see a loving, tired mom who has carried too much responsibility.

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

((Mattie)) I can relate! It has been slow going- what I learned was to say things once and set a boundary and consequence. Consequences had to be large enough to have an impact, but small enough so that things didn't snowball and I didn't wind up taking everything she owned away by the time it was bedtime. Soft, firm voice and simple direct need is what works better than other efforts.

The disease seems to keep to the script! My exAH says the same things as your exAH even though he earns a very high income and I'm back in school full time. It took me many years and tons of Alanon support to detach enough to not engage. Sending prayers.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

A is going to do or not do whatever. - him....

I raised my two kids as a widow who never planned to work.ugh.

My thing was watch what they do ignore what they say. I give choices. Bring the groceries in or don't. If you don't, no computer, your choice.

Its your turn to wash dishes, I will dry and put away. Or choose not, then no computer etc.

They may not do stuff for a night or two, but then I doubt it.No tv no computer seems like a weird choice.

This way they feel some control in their lives.

Even a chart, do this and you get that. Choose this or choose that.

I sat with my kids/my students and we made all the rules and the consequences together. Was fun and it works. If they blew it, that was their choice and they decided the consequences.

This time of raising our kids goes so darn fast.Its a tiny part of our lives! Enjoy every moment. Take him to go get groceries, give him a list, let him figure it out. Maybe let him pick two or three things just for him. Make him part of it all. They need that. I know if my MOhter said I need your help, that went much better than get the cloths off the line.

I had the tough kids helping me lots when I had three classrooms made into one for JUST me to control! lol I tutored and kept them busy when they did not go to assemblies, they were lame don't ya know! It was packed full. They were so quiet I was so proud of them. We played cards, board games, did homework. made popcorn...Principal would stick his head in and smile!

Kids like to be a part of, even when they gripe. I know for me, humor and teasing them got me much further than the other staff who thought they had to be sergents...

One kid, Bob was being horrible to the principal in this one room they took him to. He was throwing chairs, yelling at principal. I was called in to go there. I walked in as a chair was flying! I looked Bob in the eye and said BOB sit down!! He sat. the principal walked out shaking his head...I looked at bob and he had a HAND print on his cheek! His mother had beat him that morning. Principal did not even see it. I ended up taking Bob home till they could find a place for him to go.

soooo believe me, kids need us to ignore what they say, watch what they do. Give them choices. tell him you are so tired and need to take a nap or go read. Ask him if he would mind playing on computer and you will rest that will freak him out! lol When he is saying I hate you, say oh honey I love you too. lol They need us to love them no matter what and not be hurt by their boloney. they don't mean it.

Not sure I said anything. But for me and my mother, we innately get kids and just adore them, no matter what. But we are also very strict and don't take any boloney. Just tell him you will tie him by his thumbs then tie him to a cubboard handle...

I miss my dear Mother, so very much....

-- Edited by Debilyn on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 07:34:42 PM

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